Is Mr Popo an alien too?

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Jord
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Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Jord » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:26 am

At first he was just a black man but once I dove into the original DB I learned that black people were drawn differently and also talked more eloquently (General Black from the RR Army for example)
I believe that during DB, when Kami and Popo are introduced Kami is simply a demon but has it been said what Popo's supposed to be?

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:40 am

Popo is from Heaven, according to Daizenshuu 7's world section. So kind of.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:49 am

The Daizenshū states that Mr. Popo, along with Karin, are beings originating from the Next World who were sent to Earth to be God's assistants.

Mr. Popo has never been a Black man.

God/Kami was never supposed to be a demon.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Jord » Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:04 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:49 am
The Daizenshū states that Mr. Popo, along with Karin, are beings originating from the Next World who were sent to Earth to be God's assistants.

Mr. Popo has never been a Black man.

God/Kami was never supposed to be a demon.
That's interesting but talking about Kami...
When he was introduced in DB he revealed he was the other half of Daimao. Since Damiao was a demon as well, wouldn't it make sense for Kami to be a (good?) demon as well?

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:56 am

Jord wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:04 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:49 am
The Daizenshū states that Mr. Popo, along with Karin, are beings originating from the Next World who were sent to Earth to be God's assistants.

Mr. Popo has never been a Black man.

God/Kami was never supposed to be a demon.
That's interesting but talking about Kami...
When he was introduced in DB he revealed he was the other half of Daimao. Since Damiao was a demon as well, wouldn't it make sense for Kami to be a (good?) demon as well?
No. There's no such thing as a "good demon". Daimao was born from the piece of evil that was cast out of Kami's soul. He is pure evil incarnate.

God/Kami did not know what he was until it was revealed he was a Namekian in the Saiyan arc.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:18 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 8:56 am
No. There's no such thing as a "good demon".
Except Dabura in the anime after he died.
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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:22 am

MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:49 am
.

Mr. Popo has never been a Black man.
No one ever said he was. But he’s clearly based on racist caricatures of black men
God/Kami was never supposed to be a demon.


Again pretty much nobody ever said he was.

Jord wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 7:04 am
That's interesting but talking about Kami...
When he was introduced in DB he revealed he was the other half of Daimao. Since Damiao was a demon as well, wouldn't it make sense for Kami to be a (good?) demon as well?
No, Piccolo Is a demon by virtue of being the manifestation of Kami’s evil. That wouldn’t make Kami a demon.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Dec 31, 2020 10:20 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 9:22 am
MyVisionity wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:49 am
.

Mr. Popo has never been a Black man.
No one ever said he was. But he’s clearly based on racist caricatures of black men
God/Kami was never supposed to be a demon.


Again pretty much nobody ever said he was.
Jord says these things in the opening post.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Jord » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:27 pm

I meant I thought he was either supposed to be a black man (since I first saw him in DBZ) or a caricature of one.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Psajdak » Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:42 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:40 am
Popo is from Heaven, according to Daizenshuu 7's world section. So kind of.
Heaven (Tengoku), or Heavenly Realm (Tenkai) where Kami's Temple / The Lookout is located?

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:02 pm

Never once thought of Popo as a black man nor a caricature of one. First of all, he is literally black, which is different than any other black character was portrayed in the series. Seconly, he has point ears. Third of all, he has more genie-like attire than anything. I always looked at Mr. Popo as a different type of species entirely, which Dragon Ball is chalk-full of. Along the same lines, I never looked at Piccolo as "the black guy" and never really thought Oob was black either (he seemed more Indian or Middle Eastern to me).

Maybe it's my naivety speaking, but I never put Popo's look together with a caricature of black people. Though, I do think that they should have much better representation than what we got so far. I'm especially a bit surprised that Super hasn't diversified a bit.

But to circle back to Popo, I don't think he's an alien. I think that he's just another species who might or might not be inherently associated with the heavenly realm (or whatever it's called).

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:02 pm
Never once thought of Popo as a black man nor a caricature of one. First of all, he is literally black, which is different than any other black character was portrayed in the series.
He is very much unavoidably based on old timey racist black caricatures. The giant red lips, simpleton way of speaking, one tooth, the very fact he’s an indentured servant.

No amount “well I didn’t see him that way” isn’t going to change what he is.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by TheGreatness25 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:59 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:02 pm
Never once thought of Popo as a black man nor a caricature of one. First of all, he is literally black, which is different than any other black character was portrayed in the series.
He is very much unavoidably based on old timey racist black caricatures. The giant red lips, simpleton way of speaking, one tooth, the very fact he’s an indentured servant.

No amount “well I didn’t see him that way” isn’t going to change what he is.
I said that I didn't see him that way, not that he wasn't made to be that way. Plus, he came after Black (don't remember his actual name, but he's like Staff Officer Black in the dub). Also never saw any of those types of depictions for black people at that point in my life. All I'm saying is that I never saw it that way, not that it's not true.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by RandomGuy96 » Thu Dec 31, 2020 5:38 pm

Psajdak wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 2:42 pm
RandomGuy96 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 6:40 am
Popo is from Heaven, according to Daizenshuu 7's world section. So kind of.
Heaven (Tengoku), or Heavenly Realm (Tenkai) where Kami's Temple / The Lookout is located?
Heaven as in the afterlife.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by TheSeductiveTomato » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:31 am

Popo is a genie, no? At least that's what I remember reading somewhere. Either way, we've given enough sci-fi backstories to characters. I'd rather keep the mystic roots in tact for some of the cast.

Also, Kami is a god/deity. The theory I read somewhere (can't remember if it's canon but I think it's just a theory) is that Piccolo is a demon because Kami is a deity. Basically, Kami becoming the guardian of the earth granted him deity benefits such as having access to the Otherworld and being able to detect deity chi. In turn, Piccolo, due to his connection to Kami and his corrupted nature, became a demon. This is why his offspring are disfigured.

Honestly I wish demon lore is something modern Dragon Ball would explore. Piccolo, Dabura, and the non-canon Garlic Jr. and Janemba all made for some fascinating villains imo.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Jord » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:23 am

TheSeductiveTomato wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:31 am
Popo is a genie, no? At least that's what I remember reading somewhere. Either way, we've given enough sci-fi backstories to characters. I'd rather keep the mystic roots in tact for some of the cast.

Also, Kami is a god/deity. The theory I read somewhere (can't remember if it's canon but I think it's just a theory) is that Piccolo is a demon because Kami is a deity. Basically, Kami becoming the guardian of the earth granted him deity benefits such as having access to the Otherworld and being able to detect deity chi. In turn, Piccolo, due to his connection to Kami and his corrupted nature, became a demon. This is why his offspring are disfigured.

Honestly I wish demon lore is something modern Dragon Ball would explore. Piccolo, Dabura, and the non-canon Garlic Jr. and Janemba all made for some fascinating villains imo.
He does look like a stereotypical genie with that outfit on, plus he is a servant so I'm sure that played a part in his creation. It isn't the only Arabic influence in DB. Majin Buu had some 1001 Arabian nights influences as well.

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Adamant » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:27 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:02 pm
Never once thought of Popo as a black man nor a caricature of one. First of all, he is literally black, which is different than any other black character was portrayed in the series.
He is very much unavoidably based on old timey racist black caricatures. The giant red lips, simpleton way of speaking, one tooth, the very fact he’s an indentured servant.

No amount “well I didn’t see him that way” isn’t going to change what he is.
Why is that so "unavoidably" obviously correct? He looks more like a typical genie than a human, his clothes are what you'd associate with a typical genie outfit, he looks nothing like how Toriyama has ever drawn black people, "simpleton way of speaking" is something Toriyama had Boo do as well and he's a genie, being a servant is something far more associated with genies than with black people... big lips and one tooth? Hakushon Daimaoh had just as big lips and two giant doofy teeth, and he was a genie. What is the argument even supposed to be here, why is "Toriyama just drew a pretty typical genie character" such an impossibility to you?

Would anyone ever have considered him anything but a genie had the anime colored him blue or red or something?
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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:53 pm

Adamant wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:27 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:06 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote:
Thu Dec 31, 2020 3:02 pm
Never once thought of Popo as a black man nor a caricature of one. First of all, he is literally black, which is different than any other black character was portrayed in the series.
He is very much unavoidably based on old timey racist black caricatures. The giant red lips, simpleton way of speaking, one tooth, the very fact he’s an indentured servant.

No amount “well I didn’t see him that way” isn’t going to change what he is.
Why is that so "unavoidably" obviously correct? He looks more like a typical genie than a human, his clothes are what you'd associate with a typical genie outfit, he looks nothing like how Toriyama has ever drawn black people, "simpleton way of speaking" is something Toriyama had Boo do as well and he's a genie, being a servant is something far more associated with genies than with black people... big lips and one tooth? Hakushon Daimaoh had just as big lips and two giant doofy teeth, and he was a genie. What is the argument even supposed to be here, why is "Toriyama just drew a pretty typical genie character" such an impossibility to you?

Would anyone ever have considered him anything but a genie had the anime colored him blue or red or something?

Because you can’t just cherry pick things and say “well Boo talks like an idiot” “

It is the entire package of Mr.Popo when combined together that makes him a racist caricature.

And nobody’s denying the genie aspect. From the Arabic clothing to the magic carpet. But again two things can simultaneously be true.

He can be a genie and a caricature of a minstrel show one does not cancel the other out,

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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by Adamant » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:02 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:53 pm
It is the entire package of Mr.Popo when combined together that makes him a racist caricature.
How? What about him makes him a "racist caricature" rather than a genie? He looks like a genie, he dresses like a genie, he talks like a genie, he's a servant like genies are, he has a magic carpet like genies do, he's got big lips and weird teeth like the most famous pop culture genie at the time did... what about him is it that makes you so insistent he's not just a genie when everything you list is "things Toriyama would associate with genies" and not "things Toriyama would asociate with black people"?
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Re: Is Mr Popo an alien too?

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:18 pm

Adamant wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 4:02 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Mon Jan 04, 2021 3:53 pm
It is the entire package of Mr.Popo when combined together that makes him a racist caricature.
How? What about him makes him a "racist caricature" rather than a genie? He looks like a genie, he dresses like a genie, he talks like a genie, he's a servant like genies are, he has a magic carpet like genies do, he's got big lips and weird teeth like the most famous pop culture genie at the time did... what about him is it that makes you so insistent he's not just a genie when everything you list is "things Toriyama would associate with genies" and not "things Toriyama would asociate with black people"?
Image
The pitch black skin and giant red lips are like the go-to for racist caricatures, dude. I mean shit, Officer Black from two sagas prior is drawn the same way but slightly less offensively so.

Speaking as an actual black person: as teenagers, a lot of us would jokingly call a fat, dark-skinned guy "Mr. Popo." And that was from people who only casually watched DBZ. It's really not hard to see if you have ANY familiarity with racist media at all.

Don't really know why i'm even entertaining this conversation since it's another one of Jord's thinly disguised bait threads.
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