Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

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Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by TVfan721 » Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:35 pm

So as we all know by now, Goku was never portrayed correctly in the original Funimation version. They took a character that was very selfish and cared only about fighting, and turned him into an altruistic superhero that only wants to help people and do good for the world. There is a huge difference in character between Japanese Goku and American Goku. Fast forward to DBS and Funimation does a better much job of portraying Goku correctly. He's basically the same childish, selfish hick that only cares about fighting and has very little regard for his friends and family. To someone who didn't follow the Japanese version and strictly went with the English version, that change can be jarring. So was it for you? I am very interested to hear from people on this.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Yuji » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:23 pm

I think the change from Z Goku to Super (anime) Goku is jarring, dub fan or not.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Kataphrut » Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:37 pm

Well, there was also Kai and the first two modern movies in between, so it shouldn't have been a huge lurch. Depends on how many people watched those before starting Super I guess.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Jan 02, 2021 9:04 pm

Yuji wrote:
Sat Jan 02, 2021 8:23 pm
I think the change from Z Goku to Super (anime) Goku is jarring, dub fan or not.
Agreed. Obviously we’re not talking “I am the hope of the universe” here but Toei themselves made Goku way more heroic than intended by Toriyama so even going from Z’s anime to Super anime in Japanese is a bit jarring.


Also no one ever talks about Vegeta? I can’t fathom evens post-reformed Vegeta at the end of the Boo saga acting like Vegeta in Super.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Metalwario64 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:46 am

Even going from the Toriyama manga to the Super anime is off. Goku was written more like his child-self for most of the anime run.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Matches Malone » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:32 am

Correctly ? if Goku in the original manga was written anywhere near as bad as he's written now, that manga would've crashed and burned really fast.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Jan 03, 2021 2:31 am

Portrayed correctly? Goku in DBS? Hell no noone is going to adjust themselves for that borderline flanderized characterization of Goku.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 03, 2021 7:29 am

Vegeta feels more like an exaggerated version of who he was at the end of DBZ than Goku. Goku feels very in line with who he is. The big difference is the scale of the stakes are greater as it's a multiverse he puts at risk for the sake of a battle.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Jan 03, 2021 8:25 am

I'd already seen both Kai and Japanese DB/Z/GT before Super, in addition to BoG and RF. By the time Super came out dubbed I'd already seen enough fan complaints to get the gist of Super Goku.

I'll agree with what most are saying and note that Goku in Super is a caricature much of the time. Even going from Japanese Z to Super it's a noticeable change.

One example that comes to mind is the way Super Goku seems to lack any restraint, like the scenes with Monaka where he simply can't resist pestering him and even punching him. Compare that to the Goku who sensed Majin Buu during his fight with Vegeta and immediately took him deadly serious. That same Goku actually intended to return to Otherworld without ever fighting Buu, hoping Gotenks would handle it.

Just think about that for a second. Goku was at a point where he'd surpassed everyone in Otherworld, and Buu was the strongest being he'd ever known of. He had a few hours left on Earth and would likely never get an opportunity for a fight like this again. Yet he was actually willing to let go of his selfish desire for battle, and invest the time teaching Fusion to the boys instead. Super Goku would never have the restraint to do that. He'd have teleported straight to Buu the instant he sensed him with a huge grin on his face, consequences be damned.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:20 am

A big difference is Buu's malevolence. Goku never felt malevolence coming from Monaka. If anything it's leaving the fight to Gotenks that felt out of character. The assumption is Goku's actions through DBZ are fully consistent and it's Super that exaggerates them.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:14 am

ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:20 am
A big difference is Buu's malevolence. Goku never felt malevolence coming from Monaka. If anything it's leaving the fight to Gotenks that felt out of character. The assumption is Goku's actions through DBZ are fully consistent and it's Super that exaggerates them.
Goku also forfeited the match against Cell to allow Gohan to fight him. Goku by the end of the Z era seemed perfectly willing to allow others to fight to help bring out their potential something Goku in Super doesn’t seem capable of.

Perhaps Goku learned his lesson when it turns out his youngest son and best friend treat fighting like a game and oldest son turns into Vegeta 2.0 when he gets a little too much power.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:16 am

Monaka wasn't malevolent, but Beerus, Zamasu, and Zeno all were to varying extents. Goku knowingly played with fire several times in Super, arguably to a much greater extent than ever before. Zeno wasn't just another strong guy, but a being who could erase all of existence on a whim. Goku is repeatedly warned to stay away but just can't help himself, even after seeing Future Trunks lose his timeline.

Goku in DB/Z made dangerous choices too, but there was a limit to how far he'd go, and he was a more nuanced character overall.

I'd argue him leaving Buu to Gotenks was a believable sign of maturity, a maturity which is thrown out the window in Super.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:25 am

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:14 am
ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 9:20 am
A big difference is Buu's malevolence. Goku never felt malevolence coming from Monaka. If anything it's leaving the fight to Gotenks that felt out of character. The assumption is Goku's actions through DBZ are fully consistent and it's Super that exaggerates them.
Goku also forfeited the match against Cell to allow Gohan to fight him. Goku by the end of the Z era seemed perfectly willing to allow others to fight to help bring out their potential something Goku in Super doesn’t seem capable of.

Perhaps Goku learned his lesson when it turns out his youngest son and best friend treat fighting like a game and oldest son turns into Vegeta 2.0 when he gets a little too much power.
Goku gives up because he knew Gohan was the only one who could win. He never fought with the intention of winning. He did it so Gohan could see how Cell fought. I don't recall that sort of situation ever being the case with SUper. Also, Goku is dead so he has a time limit. Fighting and winning against Buu in time would likely be impossible. His "the living should be the ones who save the world" doesn't seem like Goku. Given he tosses a senzu to Cell, I don't think any of this points to Goku's maturity.
Monaka wasn't malevolent, but Beerus, Zamasu, and Zeno all were to varying extents. Goku knowingly played with fire several times in Super, arguably to a much greater extent than ever before. Zeno wasn't just another strong guy, but a being who could erase all of existence on a whim. Goku is repeatedly warned to stay away but just can't help himself, even after seeing Future Trunks lose his timeline.

Goku in DB/Z made dangerous choices too, but there was a limit to how far he'd go, and he was a more nuanced character overall.

I'd argue him leaving Buu to Gotenks was a believable sign of maturity, a maturity which is thrown out the window in Super.
Beerus and zeno weren't malevolent. Goku was friends with both. Goku constantly plays with fire

I know people WANT to believe Goku has his limits but that's not true. He lets Dr Gero, Piccolo, and Vegeta go for the sake of a fight despite knowing how dangerous that was. What limit are you talking about?

Given what we've seen out of Goku how was letting them deal with the situation he helped create a sign of maturity? Not only is it passing the buck, it's naive of him to think leaving the fate of the universe in the hands of 7/8 year olds was a prudent decision.

Given there were no lasting consequences of Goku's reckless decisions, I see little reason why he would learn a valuable lesson about not poking the bear.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Dbzfan94 » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:42 am

But DBS didn’t portray Goku correctly.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:43 am

It wasn't Super, but finding out DB wasn't a superhero story and Goku's goal wasn't to save the world felt like a missing piece of the puzzle
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:16 pm

Dbzfan94 wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:42 am
But DBS didn’t portray Goku correctly.
In a way Goku feels like he regressed to early Dragon Ball. He’s 12 year old Goku in 42(ish?) year old Goku’s body.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:24 pm

It's regression if you think leaving kids to deal with your mess is progress.

The biggest example of something that feels like genuine caricaturish behavior from Goku is him not having kissed Chichi.

I do think there are plenty of examples of either regression or out of character moments in Super like Chichi becoming a Tiger mom again but Goku putting the world in danger for a fight isn't one of them. It just feels more obvious and reckless due to the level of the stakes. It feels like regression and more like distillation.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:33 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 10:25 am
Beerus and zeno weren't malevolent. Goku was friends with both. Goku constantly plays with fire

I know people WANT to believe Goku has his limits but that's not true. He lets Dr Gero, Piccolo, and Vegeta go for the sake of a fight despite knowing how dangerous that was. What limit are you talking about?

Given what we've seen out of Goku how was letting them deal with the situation he helped create a sign of maturity? Not only is it passing the buck, it's naive of him to think leaving the fate of the universe in the hands of 7/8 year olds was a prudent decision.

Given there were no lasting consequences of Goku's reckless decisions, I see little reason why he would learn a valuable lesson about not poking the bear.
Despite his dangerous choices, Goku always had a point were enough was enough, and the situation had to be treated seriously. His initial reaction to Raditz saying there were 2 stronger Saiyans was one of terror, not excitement. He killed both Frieza and King Cold in Trunks' timeline, realizing that enough was enough (and tried to spare Frieza in Resurrection F/Super, despite him being more dangerous than ever).

He also desperately urged Gohan to finish Cell, knowing that things could turn ugly. Super Goku would likely tell Gohan to let Cell go so they could fight again.

Buu being revived was more Vegeta's fault than Goku's. Vegeta wasn't going to take no for an answer, Goku had to fight him. And as risky as it was, Goku was definitely thinking of the long term good of the earth when he left it to Gotenks. For someone who loves a good fight, it must have took real restraint for him to turn down the opportunity of a lifetime.

And it's not just the choices Goku makes in Super that are different, but his level of intelligence too. As funny as it is, the scene with Beerus dressed up as Monaka is ridiculous, and never would have fooled Goku in Z.

In both the Cell and Buu Sagas Goku was the one holding things together with his resourcefulness, but in Super his friends have to bend over backwards to stop him from screwing up. He suggested the Time Chamber and gathered everyone to use it. He came up with the idea of getting a new guardian and dragonballs. He planned for Gohan to fight Cell. He taught the boys Fusion, put Piccolo in charge, and made plans to revive everyone and repair all the damage done by Buu. He also cared about the Earth and its people at least enough to do that much, and he wasn't an idiot by any stretch.

During the Tournament of Power it's clear he couldn't care less about the consequences. People are being deleted left, right, and centre, yet he has that huge grin on his face throughout the Tournament. He's having the time of his life and nothing else matters.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:41 pm

He realized enough was enough only to let the next guy go for the sake of a fight. Sorry not buying your argument. It's less a case of him learning and him being pragmatic. Just think about it, you say he realizes enough is enough but apparently not so much so that he wouldn't lift a finger to pre-emptively stop the Cyborgs.

Leaving the sake of the Earth in the hands of kids he just met hours before isn't thinking of the long term health of the planet. It comes across as a rationalization. If we take into account Goku being able to turn SSJ3, Goku was not pulled into a conflict against his will. He could've stopped it before things escalated.
For someone who loves a good fight, it must have took real restraint for him to turn down the opportunity of a lifetime.
And yet he's more than fine with Vegeta's plan to fight Buu one on one
His initial reaction to Raditz saying there were 2 stronger Saiyans was one of terror, not excitement.
Keyword being "initial". Notice his reaction to the early part of the battle against Vegeta where he admits to being both scared and excited about fighting someone so powerful

What you've shown is not Goku progressing but that he swings back and forth. There are times he is more prudent and other times he lets his excitement for battle get the better of him.
He also desperately urged Gohan to finish Cell, knowing that things could turn ugly. Super Goku would likely tell Gohan to let Cell go so they could fight again.
This comment feels disingenuous. He killed Freeza in the ROF arc after the time reversal, so he has times where he is very practical, but the Cell Games example you are talking about was towards the end of a fight where he gave his son's opponent something to heal so the fight would be more sporting.
In both the Cell and Buu Sagas Goku was the one holding things together with his resourcefulness
After contributing to those problems to begin with!
During the Tournament of Power it's clear he couldn't care less about the consequences. People are being deleted left, right, and centre, yet he has that huge grin on his face throughout the Tournament. He's having the time of his life and nothing else matters.
You are forgetting putting the team together and putting Gohan as the team captain was his idea. Without the team they wouldn't have won and his decision to pick 17 was ultimately what saved the multiverse. So in true DB fashion, Goku helps put the world in peril but his purity in his love of battle and sense of honor would end up saving the day and changing the characters for the better or at the very least bring out the best in them.

In DBZ Goku didn't progress to being pragmatic and in Super he didn't regress to being only driven by battle. In both stories he goes back and forth.
Last edited by ABED on Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Jan 03, 2021 1:17 pm

ABED wrote:
Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:41 pm
you say he realizes enough is enough but apparently not so much so that he wouldn't lift a finger to pre-emptively stop the Cyborgs.
He also reasons to Bulma that Gero hasn’t built the cyborgs yet (I think the dub straight up has him tell her he hasn’t done anything wrong yet but the subtext is still there in the Japanese version). Letting Vegeta go for a rematch was the only time his motivations were questionable.

Like, yeah he let Piccolo go for a rematch but there’s also the whole “If Piccolo dies, God dies too”’thing.


I don’t think it’s even Goku’s love of fighting in Super itself is the problem so much as how this love is portrayed. From the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai (maybe even since the 22nd) up through the end of Boo he was a martial artist through and through. He loved fighting the same way a pro athlete loves their sport of choice. In Super this love of fighting is portrayed with a lot more childlike glee akin to 21st Tenkaichi era Goku.

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