Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:01 pm

Honestly, did Super Saiyan 3 exist for any reason other than to justify why Goku would stand on equal ground with Majin Vegeta but then able to keep up with Majin Buu?

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:12 am

I just remembered how they made DBS Goku worse, in DBZ everyone kept a secret from Goku that he was the one that killed his Grandpa. But in DBZ when he grew up, he managed to learn the secret to who killed his Grandpa and who the monster was.

DBS Goku can’t figure out Beerus is lying, costume is breaking, can’t tell his scent is Beerus, can’t tell Puar voice is coming from Puar transformed as Beerus, doesn’t figure out when Yamcha spills the beans, can’t tell by sensing their Ki and scent of smell when close to everyone. He heard their voice but nothing.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:21 am

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:12 am I just remembered how they made DBS Goku worse, in DBZ everyone kept a secret from Goku that he was the one that killed his Grandpa. But in DBZ when he grew up, he managed to learn the secret to who killed his Grandpa and who the monster was.

DBS Goku can’t figure out Beerus is lying, costume is breaking, can’t tell his scent is Beerus, can’t tell Puar voice is coming from Puar transformed as Beerus, doesn’t figure out when Yamcha spills the beans, can’t tell by sensing their Ki and scent of smell when close to everyone. He heard their voice but nothing.
Not comparable.

Goku knew even as a child that a monster comes out at the full moon killed his grandpa. He never once puts two and two together that he blacks out every time he sees a full moon. Raditz straight up tells him without his tail he lost his ability to transform and that he must have seen the full moon at some point in his life and earlier his friends acted paranoid asking if Gohan has ever seen a full moon yet.

It’s only after he sees Vegeta transform into an Oozaru using an artificial moon does he FINALLY put two and two together.

Pu’erh’s voice also tricked Oolong in episode 6 of Dragon Ball.

Goku’s sense of smell is not infallible. Roshi tricked him by using a strong cologne.

You’re reaching.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:44 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:21 am
super michael wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:12 am I just remembered how they made DBS Goku worse, in DBZ everyone kept a secret from Goku that he was the one that killed his Grandpa. But in DBZ when he grew up, he managed to learn the secret to who killed his Grandpa and who the monster was.

DBS Goku can’t figure out Beerus is lying, costume is breaking, can’t tell his scent is Beerus, can’t tell Puar voice is coming from Puar transformed as Beerus, doesn’t figure out when Yamcha spills the beans, can’t tell by sensing their Ki and scent of smell when close to everyone. He heard their voice but nothing.
Not comparable.

Goku knew even as a child that a monster comes out at the full moon killed his grandpa. He never once puts two and two together that he blacks out every time he sees a full moon. Raditz straight up tells him without his tail he lost his ability to transform and that he must have seen the full moon at some point in his life and earlier his friends acted paranoid asking if Gohan has ever seen a full moon yet.

It’s only after he sees Vegeta transform into an Oozaru using an artificial moon does he FINALLY put two and two together.

Pu’erh’s voice also tricked Oolong in episode 6 of Dragon Ball.

Goku’s sense of smell is not infallible. Roshi tricked him by using a strong cologne.

You’re reaching.

I guess that point about Goku figuring out the secret to who killed Grandpa Gohan wasn’t that good.

Nicely done I guess voice isn’t a good reason like you pointed out. Oolong tricked Master Roshi.

Beerus didn’t use anything to mask his scent, unlike Master Roshi that used cologne. Beerus skin was visible through the broken costume.

Goku heard Yamcha spill the beans that Monaka was knocked out from the start.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:27 pm

Goku's sense of smell was dropped soon enough, it is never talked about again in Z, actually I completely forgot about it because it wasn't mentioned like since 1987.

For all we know, Beerus doesn't have any kind of particular scent, he is THE god of this universe, if his ki cannot be sensed, why would he be smelled?

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:46 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:27 pm Goku's sense of smell was dropped soon enough, it is never talked about again in Z, actually I completely forgot about it because it wasn't mentioned like since 1987.

For all we know, Beerus doesn't have any kind of particular scent, he is THE god of this universe, if his ki cannot be sensed, why would he be smelled?
To be fair the last time someone hid their identity was Master Shen when he tried to kill Goku while he was sleeping. After that no one hid their identity.

Lets assume Beerus doesn't have any scent because he is a God, then surely Puar transformed into Beerus would be a big give away due to his ki and scent. We know Puar never learned to hide his ki, only the Z fighters learned to hide their ki.

Monaka ki and scent of smell would be different than Beerus in a costumes.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Koitsukai » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:54 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:46 pm
Koitsukai wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:27 pm Goku's sense of smell was dropped soon enough, it is never talked about again in Z, actually I completely forgot about it because it wasn't mentioned like since 1987.

For all we know, Beerus doesn't have any kind of particular scent, he is THE god of this universe, if his ki cannot be sensed, why would he be smelled?
To be fair the last time someone hid their identity was Master Shen when he tried to kill Goku while he was sleeping. After that no one hid their identity.

Lets assume Beerus doesn't have any scent because he is a God, then surely Puar transformed into Beerus would be a big give away due to his ki and scent. We know Puar never learned to hide his ki, only the Z fighters learned to his their ki.

Monaka ki and scent of smell would be different than Beerus in a costumes.
But again, from an out-of-universe perspective, this particular ability seems to have been dropped a long time ago... way before the show became an interplanetary action-packed series.

From a in-universe perspective, Goku has learned to perceive other people through other means, he has trained his body to do so, it could be possible he no longer has that sense as developed, IIRC, as an adult he never used it. Vegeta never seemed able to do so, if we were assuming it was a saiyan-only ability, and Gohan hasn't gotten it either if I'm not mistaken.

So, basically, it was a gag from the beginning of the show, and it's unfair to expect it to still work as it used to(or call BS when Goku doesn't "use" it), specially when it hasn't been mentioned for over 30 years.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by GTx10 » Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:02 pm

I think to many fans overpay the " Goku is Superman in the Dub" line. Yes Goku has "heroic" lines in the Dub but the Uncut dub still has many moments of Goku being "selfish." For example; go watch the Uncut Funi Dub when King Kai tells SS Goku to stop Freeza from reaching 100%. Goku says (something to the effect of) "I want Freeza to reach his peak so that when I beat him he feels it." That is a selfish moment.
The point being the Uncut Dub does maintain (in my opinion) enough "selfish Goku" to maintain his character. With that being said Super Era Goku is very hyper and it is jarring at times. But is hyperness is cute and sort of enduring. I can't help but feel that Son is a lot more prideful in his power during Super than many realize.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:13 pm

GTx10 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:02 pm I think to many fans overpay the " Goku is Superman in the Dub" line. Yes Goku has "heroic" lines in the Dub but the Uncut dub still has many moments of Goku being "selfish." For example; go watch the Uncut Funi Dub when King Kai tells SS Goku to stop Freeza from reaching 100%. Goku says (something to the effect of) "I want Freeza to reach his peak so that when I beat him he feels it." That is a selfish moment.
Pretty sure the same thing happened in the edited version.


The thing is actions speak louder than words. No matter what kind of Superman style crap the dub forces on Goku he’s still going to let Freeza power up. He’s still
going to threaten Supreme Kai’s life if he doesn’t get out of his and Vegeta’s way for their fight. He’s still going to run off with a 9-year old third world village boy to train him and ditch his wife and teen son.

Goku who wants to fight really strong opponents is present in the dub because it’s integral to Goku’s actions in the narrative and no amount of lines like “Your evil deeds are like a noose around your neck!”
and “You’re not the first person that tried to rule the universe with the sword of injustice “ is going to change that.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Wed Jun 16, 2021 3:43 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:13 pm
GTx10 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:02 pm I think to many fans overpay the " Goku is Superman in the Dub" line. Yes Goku has "heroic" lines in the Dub but the Uncut dub still has many moments of Goku being "selfish." For example; go watch the Uncut Funi Dub when King Kai tells SS Goku to stop Freeza from reaching 100%. Goku says (something to the effect of) "I want Freeza to reach his peak so that when I beat him he feels it." That is a selfish moment.
Pretty sure the same thing happened in the edited version.


The thing is actions speak louder than words. No matter what kind of Superman style crap the dub forces on Goku he’s still going to let Freeza power up. He’s still
going to threaten Supreme Kai’s life if he doesn’t get out of his and Vegeta’s way for their fight. He’s still going to run off with a 9-year old third world village boy to train him and ditch his wife and teen son.

Goku who wants to fight really strong opponents is present in the dub because it’s integral to Goku’s actions in the narrative and no amount of lines like “Your evil deeds are like a noose around your neck!”
and “You’re not the first person that tried to rule the universe with the sword of injustice “ is going to change that.
While I agree that the english dub exaggerated Goku heroic speach, some of Goku reasons are in the manga.


- Chapter 320 page 11 Goku wasn't going to allow Freeza to transform. It was in Chapter 321 page 2 that Freeza desperately started to transform and Goku let him transform.
- Chapter 321 page 4 Goku says they can't revive the same person twice and wants to avenge Krillin.
- Chapter 325 page 10 Goku reason for letting Freeza reach full power and wanting to beat at his best was so Freeza swallow his pride against a Saiyan no less and to avenge Krillin.
- Chapter 458 page 2 Vegeta threatens to kill more innocent people, if Goku doesn't fight him. Goku had to fight Vegeta, otherwise Vegeta would continue killing more people.
- Chapter 458 page 9 Goku threatening Kaioshin life there is no good reason. Not sure what Goku was thinking here, heck I say he wasn't thinking.
- Chapter 520 page 13 Goku says that if something happens that he Uub will be earth protector. I don't see how that counts as Goku ditching his sons, when they are adults/teens, they can visit Goku in Uub village. Infact that decision is to keep the earth save.

Goku was willing to not fight Buu and let the younger generation fight instead, the only reason Goku had to fight Fat Buu was to stall while Trunks went to get the Dragon Ball Radar. Without the Dragon Ball Radar they can't find the Dragon Balls.

Goku let Vegeta and Trunks train first, while Goku and Gohan trains second in the Cell Saga. In DBS Goku gets annoyed when Vegeta trains with Whis without telling him.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by TobyS » Wed Jun 16, 2021 7:41 am

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:12 am I just remembered how they made DBS Goku worse, in DBZ everyone kept a secret from Goku that he was the one that killed his Grandpa. But in DBZ when he grew up, he managed to learn the secret to who killed his Grandpa and who the monster was.

DBS Goku can’t figure out Beerus is lying, costume is breaking, can’t tell his scent is Beerus, can’t tell Puar voice is coming from Puar transformed as Beerus, doesn’t figure out when Yamcha spills the beans, can’t tell by sensing their Ki and scent of smell when close to everyone. He heard their voice but nothing.
Everyone is fooled by Monaka because they just take Beerus world for it.

Everything after that Is Toei anime filler and isn't in the manga and this not in the toriyama outline.
Yamcha almost certainly did not cheat on Bulma:
He was afraid of Women, Bulma was the flirty one.
Yamcha wanted to get married (it was his gonna be his wish)
He suggested they settle down in the Trunks saga.
Alternate future Trunks is not a reliable source.
Toriyama wanted new SSJ Kids and not make new characters.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Aim » Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:03 am

TVfan721 wrote: Sat Jan 02, 2021 6:35 pm So as we all know by now, Goku was never portrayed correctly in the original Funimation version. They took a character that was very selfish and cared only about fighting, and turned him into an altruistic superhero that only wants to help people and do good for the world. There is a huge difference in character between Japanese Goku and American Goku. Fast forward to DBS and Funimation does a better much job of portraying Goku correctly. He's basically the same childish, selfish hick that only cares about fighting and has very little regard for his friends and family. To someone who didn't follow the Japanese version and strictly went with the English version, that change can be jarring. So was it for you? I am very interested to hear from people on this.
No, because he may have been similar to Japanese Goku, he was not that faithful in terms of character nuances. He’s overly cocky and becomes Vegeta sometimes for some reason, he’s just an arrogant asshole and this is Funimation not being faithful, but adding their own “western” kind of ordeal to the character.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Peach » Wed Jun 23, 2021 12:05 am

I felt like Goku behaved like Goku in the Battle of Gods film. He seemed humble enough to quit and not try to "will" his way into defeating the big bad. It seemed totally in line with an older Goku who learned from his mistakes in the past.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Spadexxione » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:23 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:21 am
super michael wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:12 am I just remembered how they made DBS Goku worse, in DBZ everyone kept a secret from Goku that he was the one that killed his Grandpa. But in DBZ when he grew up, he managed to learn the secret to who killed his Grandpa and who the monster was.

DBS Goku can’t figure out Beerus is lying, costume is breaking, can’t tell his scent is Beerus, can’t tell Puar voice is coming from Puar transformed as Beerus, doesn’t figure out when Yamcha spills the beans, can’t tell by sensing their Ki and scent of smell when close to everyone. He heard their voice but nothing.
Not comparable.

Goku knew even as a child that a monster comes out at the full moon killed his grandpa. He never once puts two and two together that he blacks out every time he sees a full moon. Raditz straight up tells him without his tail he lost his ability to transform and that he must have seen the full moon at some point in his life and earlier his friends acted paranoid asking if Gohan has ever seen a full moon yet.

It’s only after he sees Vegeta transform into an Oozaru using an artificial moon does he FINALLY put two and two together.

Pu’erh’s voice also tricked Oolong in episode 6 of Dragon Ball.

Goku’s sense of smell is not infallible. Roshi tricked him by using a strong cologne.

You’re reaching.
You're reaching too. Even if he blacked out whenever he saw a full moon it just happened 3 times to him and he had no recollection of it happening, how would he even remember that he saw a full moon? Also all the other z warriors noticed that it was a costume and goku has never been this stupid even in the first series. Remember his fight with tenshinhan? He was smart and even had quick thinking skills that master roshi was impressed by. Also the poin of beerus posing as monaka was to motivate goku, when has he needed to be motivated in the other series? The point of the first tenkaichi tournament was master roshi wanted to keep goku and krillin motivated by showing them that there were stronger people out there and at the end of the arc he litterally says that his students are not foolish enough to slack off just because they think they're strong. This monaka epsode not only goes against goku's characterization in the previous series but also against his characterization in super where he is stupider than ever and his only desire is becoming stronger and fighting strong people. Goku was selfish sometimes in z and the original series but he made calculated decisions at least, and he didn't forget to bring senzu beans to mortal fights. He also says that monaka's ki is identical to beerus' but doesn't notice it's him in a costume and you want to tell me that he was this dumb even in the past?

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:35 am

I've also pointed out that Beerus reason for his ruse was already done and not necessary. It seems people take far bigger issue with whether Goku was dumber than a previous version and not the former point. Why is that?
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Wed Jun 23, 2021 7:46 am

ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:35 am I've also pointed out that Beerus reason for his ruse was already done and not necessary. It seems people take far bigger issue with whether Goku was dumber than a previous version and not the former point. Why is that?
Same reason why people didn't like Ben in Ben 10 Omniverse, characters when they get older they mature they don't get more dumb.

DB to DBZ = Goku less dumb and naive.
DBZ to DBS Manga = Goku less dumb and naive.
DBZ to DBS Anime = Goku way more dumb, selfish, annoying, arrogant, impatient and naive.

That is why Vegeat developmen is really good, he has matured for the better.

Incase your curious about Ben 10, here is a chart:

Ben 10 = Ben is immature, which is normal he is a kid.
Ben 10 Alien Force = Ben is more mature and responsible, which is normal since he is older.
Ben 10 Omniverse = Ben is extremely immature and takes nothing seriously. Ben can be annoying and selfish.
* Ben 10 Omniverse simple art style and design is a huge downgrade compared to the older Ben 10 serious.

As for Ben 10 Reboot it is worse then Ben 10 Omniverse by a lot.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by Spadexxione » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:02 am

ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:35 am I've also pointed out that Beerus reason for his ruse was already done and not necessary. It seems people take far bigger issue with whether Goku was dumber than a previous version and not the former point. Why is that?
I think it's because the thing we pointed out is a plot problem/inconsistency that never gets brought up again after those episodes (even if it already represents a regression of goku's character development) while goku being dumber is an issue that lasts for all of the anime

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:56 am

DBS Goku in general is a major case of flanderization. Goku was never the brightest character but he was a genius in combat and know when to get serious. He also cared about his friends and family.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:05 pm

First, I hate the term Flanderization for many reasons, not the least of which is Flanders is a multifaceted character. Two, while more exaggerated, he's not that much dumber than he's shown to be, and 3 and more importantly, this whole "Goku could be serious in previous arc" doesn't hold up quite as well when you stop to think about it.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:20 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 5:05 pm First, I hate the term Flanderization for many reasons, not the least of which is Flanders is a multifaceted character. Two, while more exaggerated, he's not that much dumber than he's shown to be, and 3 and more importantly, this whole "Goku could be serious in previous arc" doesn't hold up quite as well when you stop to think about it.

If the Internet ever stops using dumb tv tropes terms it won’t be soon enough.

It also doesn’t really describe what happened to Goku. As I understand it “flanderization” is just taking one or two aspects of a character’s personality and making it their whole thing and turning it up to 11. Ex: Ned Flanders started out a wholesome nice Christian man and now his entire character is being an obnoxious fundamentalist.

If there’s any problem with the way Goku’s character is written in Super is that he regressed back to his characterization pre-Tenshinhan arc

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