Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:46 pm

Again, this isn't whether you personally agree with Goku, the issue is whether it is in character.

And all you've done by pointing out Goku didn't attack when an opponent has their guard down is sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, not that he's acting out of character.

Goku let Freeza reach 100% before everyone was teleported to Earth.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:54 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:46 pm Again, this isn't whether you personally agree with Goku, the issue is whether it is in character.

And all you've done by pointing out Goku didn't attack when an opponent has their guard down is sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, not that he's acting out of character.

Goku let Freeza reach 100% before everyone was teleported to Earth.
Goku had a reason to not attack Piccolo when his guard was down, he had the people on the island to worry in not getting caught in the explosion. Against King Piccolo there was no one around except Tien and he didn't know King Piccolo attack type. Even when Goku attacked King Piccolo when his guard was down, it failed to cancel his attack.

Your example of Piccolo won't win this debate.

Goku was out of character in Copy Vegeta saga, he didn't care that Vegeta was on a time limit dying.

Goku had no reason to stop C17 from preventing the girls from transforming. Goku didn't have a problem weakening Super Buu at all.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:02 pm

super michael wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:54 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:46 pm Again, this isn't whether you personally agree with Goku, the issue is whether it is in character.

And all you've done by pointing out Goku didn't attack when an opponent has their guard down is sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, not that he's acting out of character.

Goku let Freeza reach 100% before everyone was teleported to Earth.
Goku had a reason to not attack Piccolo when his guard was down, he had the people on the island to worry in not getting caught in the explosion. Against King Piccolo there was no one around except Tien and he didn't know King Piccolo attack type. Even when Goku attacked King Piccolo when his guard was down, it failed to cancel his attack.

Your example of Piccolo won't win this debate.

Goku was out of character in Copy Vegeta saga, he didn't care that Vegeta was on a time limit dying.

Goku had no reason to stop C17 from preventing the girls from transforming. Goku didn't have a problem weakening Super Buu at all.
How does not attacking Piccolo accomplish them not getting caught in the explosion? He has to warn people to not get caught in the blast? Are they so dense they can't figure it out for themselves? Sorry but this is a stretch. Goku had time and he chose not to stop Piccolo from exploding. Stopping Piccolo's blast also accomplishes the task of keeping his friends safe.

Why do you keep bringing up Piccolo Daimao? That's not the Piccolo I was talking about.

He wasn't out of character. There are numerous examples of Goku enjoying battle and putting it above the world ending stakes. I honestly don't think you quite understand who Goku is at his core. You also have a habit of cherry picking moments instead of taking in the full context of the story. Goku was NOT out of character. He has constantly put the thrill of a good fight above the safety of the world around him. I can give not just a few minor examples but numerous big ones that form a pattern.

He wanted to see the girls become stronger. Super Buu was different. Without that they couldn't defeat Buu.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:13 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:02 pm
super michael wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:54 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:46 pm Again, this isn't whether you personally agree with Goku, the issue is whether it is in character.

And all you've done by pointing out Goku didn't attack when an opponent has their guard down is sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, not that he's acting out of character.

Goku let Freeza reach 100% before everyone was teleported to Earth.
Goku had a reason to not attack Piccolo when his guard was down, he had the people on the island to worry in not getting caught in the explosion. Against King Piccolo there was no one around except Tien and he didn't know King Piccolo attack type. Even when Goku attacked King Piccolo when his guard was down, it failed to cancel his attack.

Your example of Piccolo won't win this debate.

Goku was out of character in Copy Vegeta saga, he didn't care that Vegeta was on a time limit dying.

Goku had no reason to stop C17 from preventing the girls from transforming. Goku didn't have a problem weakening Super Buu at all.
How does not attacking Piccolo accomplish them not getting caught in the explosion? He has to warn people to not get caught in the blast? Are they so dense they can't figure it out for themselves? Sorry but this is a stretch. Goku had time and he chose not to stop Piccolo from exploding. Stopping Piccolo's blast also accomplishes the task of keeping his friends safe.

Why do you keep bringing up Piccolo Daimao? That's not the Piccolo I was talking about.

He wasn't out of character. There are numerous examples of Goku enjoying battle and putting it above the world ending stakes. I honestly don't think you quite understand who Goku is at his core. You also have a habit of cherry picking moments instead of taking in the full context of the story. Goku was NOT out of character. He has constantly put the thrill of a good fight above the safety of the world around him. I can give not just a few minor examples but numerous big ones that form a pattern.

He wanted to see the girls become stronger. Super Buu was different. Without that they couldn't defeat Buu.
Because if by some chance Goku fails to cancel Piccolo attack, just like he failed to cancel King Piccolo then everyone is dead. The idea was for everyone to get away from the island, that is what Goku was yelling at everyone to get away. When Goku saw that it was too late, Tien made a hole so everyone survive the explosion.

Your missing the point, his friend Vegeta was dying and he didn't care that his friend was dying at all. Goku knew to stop Vegeta from dying was to defeat Copy Vegeta. Goku may put the planet at risk your right, but he shows emotion when strangers, friend and family are actually harmed in anyway.

Tien wasn't panicking when King Piccolo used him as a hostage, but he was so concern that King Piccolo would kill him that he obeyed him. Then when King Piccolo wasn't using Tien as a hostage anymore that is when Goku killed him.

Goku should have attacked the girls, just like he attacked King Piccolo and Reccoom.

I bring up King Piccolo because that is the one Goku attacked when his guard was down and not Piccolo in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament.

How are people going to know that King Piccolo was going to do an explosion?

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:24 pm

Goku not attacking has nothing to do with the second it took to tell everyone what they already knew they needed to do. It was not too late. Goku could've attacked. He didn't want to because he he had a strategy to win the match.

and it's BS that he doesn't show emotion. He shows concern but he isn't worried during the battle as he's confident he can win in time. Throughout Super Goku does show emotion when his friends are killed or grievously injured. Hell, he was pissed off just hearing that Black murdered his wife and child in another timeline.

This isn't whether Goku should've done something, it's whether he would, and Goku doesn't always do the pertinent thing.
How are people going to know that King Piccolo was going to do an explosion?
What does this have to do with anything in this discussion?
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:39 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:24 pm Goku not attacking has nothing to do with the second it took to tell everyone what they already knew they needed to do. It was not too late. Goku could've attacked. He didn't want to because he he had a strategy to win the match.

and it's BS that he doesn't show emotion. He shows concern but he isn't worried during the battle as he's confident he can win in time. Throughout Super Goku does show emotion when his friends are killed or grievously injured. Hell, he was pissed off just hearing that Black murdered his wife and child in another timeline.

This isn't whether Goku should've done something, it's whether he would, and Goku doesn't always do the pertinent thing.
How are people going to know that King Piccolo was going to do an explosion?
What does this have to do with anything in this discussion?
I will show you the images so it is easier to understand:

https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... 189/14.jpg
Piccolo charge his attack and Goku screams for everyone to get out.

https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... -190/2.jpg
Goku still telling everyone that they are in danger.

https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... -190/3.jpg
Goku planned to try absorb the shockwave instead of letting the others die.

https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... -190/4.jpg
Goku realize it is too late for everyone to escape.

Goku was focused in the others surviving. Nowhere does it say that Goku let Piccolo explodes as a strategy to win.

Goku was in character in Goku Black Saga and in the ToP when he heard Zamasu killed his future family and Jiren tried to attack his friends. However in Copy Vegeta he was out of character.


You said what are the people dense that they can't figure it out, so yes you made it a part of the conversation. How are the people supposed to know that their life are in danger and they needed to escape? How are they suppose to know what Piccolo attack will do?

I deleted my post and reposted it since I did a mistake in quoting.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:01 pm

First, the images aren't showing. Second, I did understand your point but there is NOTHING to suggest Goku isn't attacking to tell his friends something they already know. And not one of those images disproves the point. He's taking Piccolo's blast head on to prove he's stronger. Where'd you get the idea that he's absorbing the blast to protect his friends? He lets Piccolo use up all of his energy in that blast. His strategy was to exhaust Piccolo.

We know Goku is doing all this to win the fight because he says it flat out. He doesn't do anything against the rules of the tournament so he can win. He doesn't run away when it makes sense. he tells others to not get involved not for their sake but so HE won't get disqualified. He allows piccolo a free hit after Kami blocks Piccolo's punch. Everything shows Goku is fighting to win the tournament.

How the hell do they not know their lives are in danger when Piccolo is powering up like that? I didn't say they were dense. I asked a rhetorical question. They know Piccolo is a threat and Tenshinhan knows that attack.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Jan 31, 2021 12:03 am

super michael wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:54 pm
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:46 pm Again, this isn't whether you personally agree with Goku, the issue is whether it is in character.

And all you've done by pointing out Goku didn't attack when an opponent has their guard down is sometimes he does and sometimes he doesn't, not that he's acting out of character.

Goku let Freeza reach 100% before everyone was teleported to Earth.
Goku had a reason to not attack Piccolo when his guard was down, he had the people on the island to worry in not getting caught in the explosion. Against King Piccolo there was no one around except Tien and he didn't know King Piccolo attack type. Even when Goku attacked King Piccolo when his guard was down, it failed to cancel his attack.

Your example of Piccolo won't win this debate.

Goku was out of character in Copy Vegeta saga, he didn't care that Vegeta was on a time limit dying.

Goku had no reason to stop C17 from preventing the girls from transforming. Goku didn't have a problem weakening Super Buu at all.
The difference with Super Buu is Goku already knew he was utterly hopeless against Buu if he had the power of Gotenks with him - there's no mystery or fun in challenging himself and with the urgency of the situation, there was no sense in getting clobbered.

Like I tried saying way back in the early pages, there's a clear through-line in Goku's reckless behavior going all the way back to the early days - his decision making is directly informed by his confidence in handling the potential negative consequences. The few times he goes against his battle-first principles are all situations where he already KNOWS his own efforts are hopeless - against Raditz, against Cell, against Super Buu, and against Beerus. And with Beerus, we find out he hates ending up in binds like that.

Shit, he even brings it up in the Super manga, and we know how much Toyotaro tends to flanderize Goku. But that scene with Merus in the RoSaT perfectly illustrates his mindset.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
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Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:45 am

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:01 pm First, the images aren't showing. Second, I did understand your point but there is NOTHING to suggest Goku isn't attacking to tell his friends something they already know. And not one of those images disproves the point. He's taking Piccolo's blast head on to prove he's stronger. Where'd you get the idea that he's absorbing the blast to protect his friends? He lets Piccolo use up all of his energy in that blast. His strategy was to exhaust Piccolo.

We know Goku is doing all this to win the fight because he says it flat out. He doesn't do anything against the rules of the tournament so he can win. He doesn't run away when it makes sense. he tells others to not get involved not for their sake but so HE won't get disqualified. He allows piccolo a free hit after Kami blocks Piccolo's punch. Everything shows Goku is fighting to win the tournament.

How the hell do they not know their lives are in danger when Piccolo is powering up like that? I didn't say they were dense. I asked a rhetorical question. They know Piccolo is a threat and Tenshinhan knows that attack.
Sorry that was my bad, when I reposted my post I didn't check if I copied the links right. I just copied my post and pasted it.
Even if Goku didn't block the explosion as I claimed and let Piccolo explode to make him exhausted as you claim, that is a good strategy.

Your right about Tien, he should have known what Piccolo was capable of and he should be the one warning everyone. However since Tien wasn't being smart, then Goku had to be the one to warn everyone.

However for the girls he didn't have any strategy, he just was unhappy with C17 for no reason.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8FodLDU9Fw
Beerus arms was visible, ear turn off and heard Puar voice. Heard Yamcha spill the beans that Monaka was knocked out and missed it and even sensed Beerus pissed off but nothing. Their smell didn't give them away or their ki.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jheb54YOQfI
Goku in DBS whines like a little baby that Vegeta trains with Whis without telling him, in DBZ Vegeta trains in the gravity room but Goku never whines. Goku had more masters than Vegeta and here are the lists:

Goku masters
- Grandpa Gohan
- Master Roshi
- Korin
- Mr Popo
- Kami
- Kaio
- Yardrat
- Whis

Vegeta masters
- Whis

Vegeta trained first in the ROSAT, but Goku didn't act immature in anyway in DBZ.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4mGmd4h15JY
Goku acting like a spoiled brat to Bulma, just so he can train with Whis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhGjiOoeLOk&t=3s
Goku acting like a spoiled brat to Whis, just so he can train with Whis. Chi Chi acting like the worst character of all time in this video.

Goku does things in DBS that he would never do in the past.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:35 pm

super michael wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:45 am
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:01 pm First, the images aren't showing. Second, I did understand your point but there is NOTHING to suggest Goku isn't attacking to tell his friends something they already know. And not one of those images disproves the point. He's taking Piccolo's blast head on to prove he's stronger. Where'd you get the idea that he's absorbing the blast to protect his friends? He lets Piccolo use up all of his energy in that blast. His strategy was to exhaust Piccolo.

We know Goku is doing all this to win the fight because he says it flat out. He doesn't do anything against the rules of the tournament so he can win. He doesn't run away when it makes sense. he tells others to not get involved not for their sake but so HE won't get disqualified. He allows piccolo a free hit after Kami blocks Piccolo's punch. Everything shows Goku is fighting to win the tournament.

How the hell do they not know their lives are in danger when Piccolo is powering up like that? I didn't say they were dense. I asked a rhetorical question. They know Piccolo is a threat and Tenshinhan knows that attack.
Sorry that was my bad, when I reposted my post I didn't check if I copied the links right. I just copied my post and pasted it.
Even if Goku didn't block the explosion as I claimed and let Piccolo explode to make him exhausted as you claim, that is a good strategy.

Your right about Tien, he should have known what Piccolo was capable of and he should be the one warning everyone. However since Tien wasn't being smart, then Goku had to be the one to warn everyone.
Yes, it's a good strategy for victory, not for protecting his friends. Goku was trying to win the tournament not save the world.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:59 am

ABED wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:35 pm
super michael wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 10:45 am
ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 8:01 pm First, the images aren't showing. Second, I did understand your point but there is NOTHING to suggest Goku isn't attacking to tell his friends something they already know. And not one of those images disproves the point. He's taking Piccolo's blast head on to prove he's stronger. Where'd you get the idea that he's absorbing the blast to protect his friends? He lets Piccolo use up all of his energy in that blast. His strategy was to exhaust Piccolo.

We know Goku is doing all this to win the fight because he says it flat out. He doesn't do anything against the rules of the tournament so he can win. He doesn't run away when it makes sense. he tells others to not get involved not for their sake but so HE won't get disqualified. He allows piccolo a free hit after Kami blocks Piccolo's punch. Everything shows Goku is fighting to win the tournament.

How the hell do they not know their lives are in danger when Piccolo is powering up like that? I didn't say they were dense. I asked a rhetorical question. They know Piccolo is a threat and Tenshinhan knows that attack.
Sorry that was my bad, when I reposted my post I didn't check if I copied the links right. I just copied my post and pasted it.
Even if Goku didn't block the explosion as I claimed and let Piccolo explode to make him exhausted as you claim, that is a good strategy.

Your right about Tien, he should have known what Piccolo was capable of and he should be the one warning everyone. However since Tien wasn't being smart, then Goku had to be the one to warn everyone.
Yes, it's a good strategy for victory, not for protecting his friends. Goku was trying to win the tournament not save the world.
If Goku didn't care about his friends and everyone, then he wouldn't be warning them to get away. Although your right about putting the planet at risk for wanting to fight Piccolo in a fair right. Goku had the brains to warn everyone before it was too late, it isn't Goku fault that they just stayed while doing nothing.

Goku in copy vegeta saga he didn't care if it is too late or not if Vegeta dies. He didn't care that each second Vegeta was disappearing at all, which is out of character.

The amount of stupid and dumb things Goku does in DBS anime is greater than Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z. Some of Goku actions and the things he says are out of character in DBS anime.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:58 pm

Nowhere did I even imply that he didn't care about his friends, and I don't see what you are seeing in the copy Vegeta fight. I see concern.

If you can't see that Goku cares about his friends, but still prioritizes fighting despite the numerous examples I gave you, I'm not sure what else I can say.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:13 pm

ABED wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 5:58 pm Nowhere did I even imply that he didn't care about his friends, and I don't see what you are seeing in the copy Vegeta fight. I see concern.

If you can't see that Goku cares about his friends, but still prioritizes fighting despite the numerous examples I gave you, I'm not sure what else I can say.
That was my mistake there. Now for Copy Vegeta, Goku ask question which Goten says that Goku has to defeat Copy Vegeta or the real Vegeta dies, Goku still ask question which Vegeta says there is no point asking because Goku won't understand and that he should defeat the Copy Vegeta so the real Vegeta doesn't die, but Goku still says that he doesn't understand and then does a stare down and talking.

Goku could have read someone mind instead of asking pointless questions.

Now on to the next problem Goku knows that Vegeta is on a time limit dying, but Goku choose to hold back to waste time.
He didn't even transform at all until Vegeta lectures Goku.

If Goku cared about Vegeta, then Goku would have tried to finish the battle as soon as possible, instead of dragging the battle by not transforming and holding back.

Goku against Majin Vegeta he wanted to defeat Majin Vegeta as fast as possible so he went Super Saiyan 2 directly, however Goku didn't expect Vegeta would be as powerful as him. As for Super Saiyan 3 Goku says his reason why he didn't use it.

https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... 504/10.jpg

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:31 pm

Other than that ONE time where he read Kuririn's mind he has never shown to have that ability and even then it didn't make sense.
Now on to the next problem Goku knows that Vegeta is on a time limit dying, but Goku choose to hold back to waste time.
He didn't even transform at all until Vegeta lectures Goku.
None of which is remotely out of character. Also, Copy Vegeta is far stronger than Goku expected.
Goku against Majin Vegeta he wanted to defeat Majin Vegeta as fast as possible so he went Super Saiyan 2 directly, however Goku didn't expect Vegeta would be as powerful as him. As for Super Saiyan 3 Goku says his reason why he didn't use it.
Yeah and those reasons are BS. By defeating Vegeta as quickly as possible in SSJ3, he stops Buu's revival.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:47 pm

ABED wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:31 pm Other than that ONE time where he read Kuririn's mind he has never shown to have that ability and even then it didn't make sense.
Now on to the next problem Goku knows that Vegeta is on a time limit dying, but Goku choose to hold back to waste time.
He didn't even transform at all until Vegeta lectures Goku.
None of which is remotely out of character.
Goku against Majin Vegeta he wanted to defeat Majin Vegeta as fast as possible so he went Super Saiyan 2 directly, however Goku didn't expect Vegeta would be as powerful as him. As for Super Saiyan 3 Goku says his reason why he didn't use it.
Yeah and those reasons are BS. By defeating Vegeta as quickly as possible in SSJ3, he stops Buu's revival.
Even if it made no sense how Goku got that ability, they can't pretend that Goku doesn't have it anymore. Although in Z there was never a time that they didn't have time to talk except for the Freeza Saga. In DBS Vegeta was literally on a time limit.

Yes it is out of character because Goku was letting Vegeta die. When Freeza was going to shoot Gohan, Goku quickly grabbed Freeza hand so he doesn't kill Gohan. When Nappa was going to kill Gohan and Krillin, Goku quickly used the Kaioken to save Gohan and Krillin.
When Dr Gero was shooting at innoncent people, Goku attacked Dr Gero to stop attacking to not see anymore death.

In every fight of Z Goku always goes to his best transformation, except for one battle which is Goku vs Majin Vegeta.

Goku knew his time would be shorten if he transforms into Super Saiyan 3, besides he didn't expect for Buu to get revived very fast, just like everyone was surprised that Buu energy was full. Goku was expecting Gohan and Kaioshin to defeat Babidi, Dabura and Fat Buu before he got revived.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:09 pm

he had it once. Dude, you are looking for reasons to hate on it when you have to dig up an obscure power he used once and never again.
super michael wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 6:47 pm Yes it is out of character because Goku was letting Vegeta die. When Freeza was going to shoot Gohan, Goku quickly grabbed Freeza hand so he doesn't kill Gohan. When Nappa was going to kill Gohan and Krillin, Goku quickly used the Kaioken to save Gohan and Krillin.
When Dr Gero was shooting at innoncent people, Goku attacked Dr Gero to stop attacking to not see anymore death.
When Piccolo was going to destroy the island and murder his friends, he took advantage of Piccolo powering up to attack him. no wait, that didn't happen. Copy Vegeta was stronger than he was expecting and he couldn't have defeated him in a single blow.
In every fight of Z Goku always goes to his best transformation, except for one battle which is Goku vs Majin Vegeta.
Translation: Goku always goes for the quickest win possible except for that one time that disproves my point entirely.
Goku knew his time would be shorten if he transforms into Super Saiyan 3, besides he didn't expect for Buu to get revived very fast, just like everyone was surprised that Buu energy was full. Goku was expecting Gohan and Kaioshin to defeat Babidi, Dabura and Fat Buu before he got revived.
He knows the more damage he takes, the closer Buu gets to resurrection. It doesn't matter how much time he has left, going Super Saiyan 3 is a one shot victory against Vegeta. There is no reason to hold back.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:31 pm

ABED wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:09 pm he had it once. Dude, you are looking for reasons to hate on it when you have to dig up an obscure power he used once and never again.
Because Goku was acting all stupid in Copy Vegeta with his pointless question. Once Goku knew what he had to do from Goten he should have just battled, but no Goku still wanted to ask more questions which Vegeta says that Goku won't understand. If Goku really wanted to know that badly then he could have read someone mind.

Maybe it might seems like a useless power, but when Goku first used that power it was impressive. He did something that only Master Roshi could do.
When Piccolo was going to destroy the island and murder his friends, he one shotted him. no wait, that didn't happen. Copy Vegeta was stronger than he was expecting and he couldn't have defeated him in a single blow.
Goku literally told everyone on the island to run away, so no one would get killed. That is also a good strategy also, it isn't Goku fault that everyone ignored him. Plus like you mentioned Goku was going to block Piccolo explosion to exhaust Piccolo, which was a good strategy.

Goku chose to stay in base until Vegeta lectured Goku. I am not saying Goku could have defeated Copy Vegeta in a single blow, but choosing to hold back wouldn't kill Copy Vegeta.
Translation: Goku always goes for the quickest win possible except for that one time that disproves my point entirely.
Goku had his reason why he didn't go Super Saiyan 3 in that battle. What was Goku reason in holding back and not transforming against Copy Vegeta? Exactly zero reasons.

He knows the more damage he takes, the closer Buu gets to resurrection. It doesn't matter how much time he has left, going Super Saiyan 3 is a one shot victory against Vegeta. There is no reason to hold back.
I know your right about this but the way Goku says he wanted to save it for an emergency means he wanted to be around incase Buu was revived. Worst case scenario Goku defeats Majin Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 3, however Goku time on earth would be unknown. There is no telling if Buu revives from Gohan and Kaioshin battle against Babidi and the good guys has no idea that Babidi can't use Kaioshin energy.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:48 pm

super michael wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:31 pm Once Goku knew what he had to do from Goten he should have just battled,
This isn't about what you think he should do but what Goku would do.
Maybe it might seems like a useless power, but when Goku first used that power it was impressive
It wasn't the first time, it was the ONLY time and it was confusing. Where did it come from?
Goku literally told everyone on the island to run away, so no one would get killed. That is also a good strategy also, it isn't Goku fault that everyone ignored him. Plus like you mentioned Goku was going to block Goku explosion to exhaust Piccolo, which was a good strategy.
That was a strategy to win the title, not save his friends. The entire match shows his biggest concern is winning the title. And they weren't ignoring him. They couldn't have gotten away in time.
Goku had his reason why he didn't go Super Saiyan 3 in that battle. What was Goku reason in holding back and not transforming against Copy Vegeta? Exactly zero reasons.
He has zero good reasons why he's holding back against Majin Vegeta. Goku is doing what he always does, trying to get the best fight he can out of Copy Vegeta.
I know your right about this but the way Goku says he wanted to save it for an emergency means he wanted to be around incase Buu was revived. Worst case scenario Goku defeats Majin Vegeta as a Super Saiyan 3, however Goku time on earth would be unknown. There is no telling if Buu revives from Gohan and Kaioshin battle against Babidi and the good guys has no idea that Babidi can't use Kaioshin energy.
This is ALL conjecture on your part. None of this is stated or implied in the story and thus irrelevant to the discussion.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:58 pm

ABED wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 7:48 pm This isn't about what you think he should do but what Goku would do.
The Goku I know would prevent someone from dying, once he knows what to do he does it. Goku in Copy Vegeta was more focus with his questions than Vegeta life which never happened before.

When Vegeta was dying due to Freeza death beam, Goku wanted Vegeta to converse energy instead of talking but Vegeta wanted to tell his whole story.
It wasn't the first time, it was the ONLY time and it was confusing. Where did it come from?
I was talking like when I first watched the Namek Saga, that is why I said the first time. Goku never had to use that ability afterwards because there was no need.
That was a strategy to win the title, not save his friends. The entire match shows his biggest concern is winning the title. And they weren't ignoring him. They couldn't have gotten away in time.
Actually the warning was to save his friends and when Goku looks back he wasn't expecting his friends was still around and he even says what are they still doing there. Goku was focused winning the match and the title, however he didn't want anyone to die.
He has zero good reasons why he's holding back against Majin Vegeta. Goku is doing what he always does, trying to get the best fight he can out of Copy Vegeta.
Like you told me about my reason below, your reason is all conjecture. Goku says his reason why he didn't use Super Saiyan 3. Goku wasn't expecting Vegeta to be as strong as he was. Nothing in the story implies that Goku stayed Super Saiyan 2 to have an enjoyable fight.
This is ALL conjecture on your part. None of this is stated or implied in the story and thus irrelevant to the discussion.
I have no problem agreeing on this part.

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Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Fri Feb 05, 2021 8:47 pm

Actually the warning was to save his friends and when Goku looks back he wasn't expecting his friends was still around and he even says what are they still doing there. Goku was focused winning the match and the title, however he didn't want anyone to die.
None of this disproves my point. He still doesn't want people to die just like he didn't want Vegeta to die.
your reason is all conjecture
That's not conjecture, it's who he is. It's his raison detre.
Goku says his reason why he didn't use Super Saiyan 3. Goku wasn't expecting Vegeta to be as strong as he was. Nothing in the story implies that Goku stayed Super Saiyan 2 to have an enjoyable fight.
Because it was a retcon.

I think we've lost the forest from the trees. Goku in even Super's dub is closer to the battle maniac Toriyama had envisioned than the superhero Toei and FUNimation had tried to turn him into.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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