Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:06 pm

Goku doesn't know any of that. For all he knows Monaka can suppress his ki to nearly unchartable levels. Goku has the words of a god that Monaka is strong. He doesn't know what Monaka's powers are. He knows nothing about him. Perhaps he should've questioned Beerus more but he has seen plenty to know his readings aren't 100% accurate all the time.

I don't know why we keep going back and forth on this. Is this a substantive example of Super's weak storytelling?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:24 pm

Goku doesn't know if Monaka is hiding his power or not true, however when "Monaka" transformed and his ki was of Beerus, Goku should have known that Beerus was lying and he was fighting Beerus. Goku battled Beerus in BoG and he battled him in Monaka.

The point is Super likes to exaggerate Goku flaws. Now remember in U6 vs U7 test that Goku struggled? That was fine since that isn't a contradiction, since Goku never been the brainy type who finds test easy.

Here is an example DBS manga Goku Black Saga has Goku make 1 mistake, while the anime Goku does 3 mistakes and say stupid things. One mistake is enough, there is no reason to exeggerate it like the anime.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:31 pm

Perhaps but this is hardly what I would call a substantive criticism of Super as a whole. This thread started because the OP rightfully stated that Super's dub portrayed Goku closer to his actual character as created by Toriyama instead of the superhero he was portrayed as in the DBZ dub. Subsequent remarks have been saying Super's Goku isn't closer and his trait of putting the world in danger for a fight has been exaggerated. At least that's a substantive criticism, but it's not one I agree with.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

kemuri07
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1005
Joined: Tue Mar 29, 2011 3:09 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by kemuri07 » Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:12 pm

ABED wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:31 pm Perhaps but this is hardly what I would call a substantive criticism of Super as a whole. This thread started because the OP rightfully stated that Super's dub portrayed Goku closer to his actual character as created by Toriyama instead of the superhero he was portrayed as in the DBZ dub. Subsequent remarks have been saying Super's Goku isn't closer and his trait of putting the world in danger for a fight has been exaggerated. At least that's a substantive criticism, but it's not one I agree with.
But that's not really even true, even if you compare Super's interpetation with Goku to that of the original DB manga. Remember, Toriyama's infamous quote about not wanting Goku to be heroic is directed at the anime proper, not just simply the funimation dub. But even within the context of the manga, Goku is a far more charismatic and "likable" character, even with his flaws. And my argument has always been that DBZ recognize that these are flaws; it's a character detail meant so that Goku can't just be OP and steamroll over everyone, and more importantly, Goku understands that these are flaws because he can't help himself. It makes him a more complicated, but ultimately endearing character in a similar fashion to other popular shonen characters.

When you have a character who not only actively puts people in danger but is unapologetic about it, and the series still wants you to root for him--that's a problem with the show's writing, and nowhere near how Toriyama depicted Goku in his original works. I think you guys are being way to simplistic about this (he's an asshole here so it makes sense to be an asshole now doesn't cut it), which is why context is so important. I'll keep harping on it if I have to.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:03 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 3:12 pm
ABED wrote: Sun Jan 24, 2021 4:31 pm Perhaps but this is hardly what I would call a substantive criticism of Super as a whole. This thread started because the OP rightfully stated that Super's dub portrayed Goku closer to his actual character as created by Toriyama instead of the superhero he was portrayed as in the DBZ dub. Subsequent remarks have been saying Super's Goku isn't closer and his trait of putting the world in danger for a fight has been exaggerated. At least that's a substantive criticism, but it's not one I agree with.
But that's not really even true, even if you compare Super's interpetation with Goku to that of the original DB manga. Remember, Toriyama's infamous quote about not wanting Goku to be heroic is directed at the anime proper, not just simply the funimation dub. But even within the context of the manga, Goku is a far more charismatic and "likable" character, even with his flaws. And my argument has always been that DBZ recognize that these are flaws; it's a character detail meant so that Goku can't just be OP and steamroll over everyone, and more importantly, Goku understands that these are flaws because he can't help himself. It makes him a more complicated, but ultimately endearing character in a similar fashion to other popular shonen characters.

When you have a character who not only actively puts people in danger but is unapologetic about it, and the series still wants you to root for him--that's a problem with the show's writing, and nowhere near how Toriyama depicted Goku in his original works. I think you guys are being way to simplistic about this (he's an asshole here so it makes sense to be an asshole now doesn't cut it), which is why context is so important. I'll keep harping on it if I have to.
This is a world where Vegeta is a part of the team despite being a mass murderer and he is unapologetic about it. He's still a fan fav.

Goku's friends don't see this as a flaw or at least not so big they ever put up a fight.

Are you claiming Goku doesn't put the world in danger constantly for the sake of a fight?

What context are you referring to? Goku puts people in danger ALL THE TIME. This isn't just a few example. It is who he is. It's what he does. You say Goku became more heroic as he got older and I just can't agree with that. What can you point to in support of this claim? You brought up the Red Ribbon Army arc. Talk about context, but you are dropping a lot of context (ie more or less the rest of DB)
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:24 pm

Here is one thing that was 100% out of character for Goku and that is acting like a villain towards the other universe. So the other universe blames Goku for going to Zeno, knowing how dangerous Zeno is but Goku thinks it is smart to act like a villain.

In DBS I don't recall Goku ever apologizing once, while in DBZ I can recall two times Goku apologized and admitted his mistakes.

DBS Manga Vegeta has shown he has regrets for his past action, which is his development.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:16 pm

super michael wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:24 pm Here is one thing that was 100% out of character for Goku and that is acting like a villain towards the other universe. So the other universe blames Goku for going to Zeno, knowing how dangerous Zeno is but Goku thinks it is smart to act like a villain.

In DBS I don't recall Goku ever apologizing once, while in DBZ I can recall two times Goku apologized and admitted his mistakes.

DBS Manga Vegeta has shown he has regrets for his past action, which is his development.
And yet his apologies never gets him to change his ways.

How did he act like a villain?
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:50 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:16 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 6:24 pm Here is one thing that was 100% out of character for Goku and that is acting like a villain towards the other universe. So the other universe blames Goku for going to Zeno, knowing how dangerous Zeno is but Goku thinks it is smart to act like a villain.

In DBS I don't recall Goku ever apologizing once, while in DBZ I can recall two times Goku apologized and admitted his mistakes.

DBS Manga Vegeta has shown he has regrets for his past action, which is his development.
And yet his apologies never gets him to change his ways.

How did he act like a villain?
Admitting his mistakes and apologizing is better than not admitting any mistakes and apologizing. It doesn't matter what he does later on in the future, but the point is he acknowledge what he has done. DBS won't acknowledge anything.
DBZ Goku cares when strangers dies or will get killed, but in DBS he knows all the other universe will get erased, yet he claims he will beat them instead of apologizing to them. By saying he will beat them all, he is making himself a target and saying he doesn't care who gets erased.

https://www.crunchyroll.com/dragon-ball ... wer-727871
My bad about Goku acting like a villain, I checked the episode and it wasn't close to what I was thinking. It is when Toppo goes to Goku at the end to fight him. I am wrong about Goku acting like a villain.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:55 pm

It's not inherently better. He knows the difference btw right and wrong and still does the wrong thing.

He has no reason to apologize. The TOP wasn't his idea.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:02 pm

ABED wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:55 pm It's not inherently better. He knows the difference btw right and wrong and still does the wrong thing.

He has no reason to apologize. The TOP wasn't his idea.
Goku knows how strong Zeno was thanks to Zeno destroying Future Trunks time line and he knows how dangerous he can be. Goku wanted to go to Zeno to ask for the tournament to be set up, which Beerus and Whis advice against, since going to Zeno is risky and they tell of Zeno capability which Goku agrees. The wise thing for Goku would have been to listen to Whis and Beerus and not go to Zeno, but Goku still went anyway, even when Beerus threatened to erase him.

Goku chose to go to Zeno despite knowing the risk and danger, that is what he has to apologize. Admitting that he didn't know the universe would be at risk.

Goku does the wrong thing in DBZ but he admits to the wrong he has done, which is better than not acknowledging any mistake he does in DBS. He acknowledge his mistake, it doesn't mean he is immune from making mistakes in the future.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 pm

super michael wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:02 pm
ABED wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:55 pm It's not inherently better. He knows the difference btw right and wrong and still does the wrong thing.

He has no reason to apologize. The TOP wasn't his idea.
Goku knows how strong Zeno was thanks to Zeno destroying Future Trunks time line and he knows how dangerous he can be. Goku wanted to go to Zeno to ask for the tournament to be set up, which Beerus and Whis advice against, since going to Zeno is risky and they tell of Zeno capability which Goku agrees. The wise thing for Goku would have been to listen to Whis and Beerus and not go to Zeno, but Goku still went anyway, even when Beerus threatened to erase him.

Goku chose to go to Zeno despite knowing the risk and danger, that is what he has to apologize. Admitting that he didn't know the universe would be at risk.

Goku does the wrong thing in DBZ but he admits to the wrong he has done, which is better than not acknowledging any mistake he does in DBS. He acknowledge his mistake, it doesn't mean he is immune from making mistakes in the future.
Goku by that point is Zeno's friend. Also the TOP wasn't his idea - it was Zeno's

It isn't better to acknowledge the mistake. After a certain point it feels insincere since he doesn't do anything different. None of this is a mistake on Goku's part. He does it bc he loves fighting and will willingly put the world in danger if it will lead to a better, more honorable fight.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:30 am

ABED wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:36 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 9:02 pm
ABED wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 8:55 pm It's not inherently better. He knows the difference btw right and wrong and still does the wrong thing.

He has no reason to apologize. The TOP wasn't his idea.
Goku knows how strong Zeno was thanks to Zeno destroying Future Trunks time line and he knows how dangerous he can be. Goku wanted to go to Zeno to ask for the tournament to be set up, which Beerus and Whis advice against, since going to Zeno is risky and they tell of Zeno capability which Goku agrees. The wise thing for Goku would have been to listen to Whis and Beerus and not go to Zeno, but Goku still went anyway, even when Beerus threatened to erase him.

Goku chose to go to Zeno despite knowing the risk and danger, that is what he has to apologize. Admitting that he didn't know the universe would be at risk.

Goku does the wrong thing in DBZ but he admits to the wrong he has done, which is better than not acknowledging any mistake he does in DBS. He acknowledge his mistake, it doesn't mean he is immune from making mistakes in the future.
Goku by that point is Zeno's friend. Also the TOP wasn't his idea - it was Zeno's

It isn't better to acknowledge the mistake. After a certain point it feels insincere since he doesn't do anything different. None of this is a mistake on Goku's part. He does it bc he loves fighting and will willingly put the world in danger if it will lead to a better, more honorable fight.
So what if he considered Zeno his friend, he knows how unpredictable Zeno is. If the GoD threatens to erase his existance, then surely that is good enough reason to listen.

Goku even admitted being selfish when he let Vegeta leave the earth and admitted that he was wrong to let Vegeta leave in space, when he found out that Vegeta was causing trouble on Namek.

In the Buu Saga against Kid Buu Goku acknowledge that he is putting his pride before the safety of the universe by not using the potara and destroying them.

You won't see DBS Goku admit that he is ever wrong, no Goku thinks he is perfect.

In the ToP Goku guard was so down at times, that when someone did a sneek attack Goku couldn't react at all.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:38 am

It was pointed out that Zeno was planning on erasing the 8 universes with a low moral ranking anyways and by Goku reminding him of the tournament he actually gave one of those universes a fighting chance which itself turned out to be a test so Goku actually indirectly saved all those universes including his own from being wiped out

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Tue Jan 26, 2021 5:57 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:38 am It was pointed out that Zeno was planning on erasing the 8 universes with a low moral ranking anyways and by Goku reminding him of the tournament he actually gave one of those universes a fighting chance which itself turned out to be a test so Goku actually indirectly saved all those universes including his own from being wiped out
Seeing that the universe was still around 1,000 years into the future, when Zamasu and Gowasu went to the future, I really doubt it would have got erased anytime soon. Plus Goku didn't think he would be helping the universe at all, even if that is what happened.
For all we know in those 1,000 years Zeno forgets.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Tue Jan 26, 2021 6:46 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Jan 26, 2021 10:30 am So what if he considered Zeno his friend, he knows how unpredictable Zeno is. If the GoD threatens to erase his existance, then surely that is good enough reason to listen.
This isn't about whether he did the right thing or prudent thing. It's whether he was in character.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
ArmenianPepsi
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 396
Joined: Fri Apr 24, 2020 4:02 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ArmenianPepsi » Sat Jan 30, 2021 2:08 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 12:16 pm
Dbzfan94 wrote: Sun Jan 03, 2021 11:42 am But DBS didn’t portray Goku correctly.
In a way Goku feels like he regressed to early Dragon Ball. He’s 12 year old Goku in 42(ish?) year old Goku’s body.
That's kind of what was floating around my mind too when watching through Super, JP and Dub.

Like, of course Goku is always going to have a sense of whimsical innocence and a fun-loving attitude, but in Super its not only cranked up to 10, he's like that almost all the time. To me it feels like there is no balance between the goofy care-free Goku, and the more down to Earth serious Goku.

I'm just spit balling though. Can't say I'm some sort of grand DB scholar.
First time Dragon Ball fan as of March 2020. Still learning the ropes. Nothing much else to say,

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 30, 2021 7:10 am

Serious seems to be the thing people here are getting stuck on but I don't see that as lacking in Super. The situations are different and he's plenty serious when facing threats like Zamasu and Black. The most significant difference in the writing of the character is that he has the temperament of a young boy. Serious isn't the term I'd used to describe Goku as an adult. He's just more reserved for lack of a better word.

The thing that gets me about the argument that Goku was somehow more serious about the stakes in DB is that Toriyama wrote Goku as excited by battle even in the midst of world ending stakes. His best friend had just been killed and the planet he is on is about to explode but he gives his enemy time to reach his full power because he wants a better fight. So please don't anyone claim Goku was more serious about the stakes.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:51 pm

Goku wasn't going to let Freeza reach his full power originally, until Freeza got the chance and he started powering up and Goku let him reach his full power. Goku didn't let Freeza reach full power just for his excitement, he let him reach full power to avenge Krillin and humiliate him.

However Goku would interrupt someone special attack and attack when wide open, example Reccoom and King Piccolo. Goku in the ToP doesn't dare do that and is unhappy at C17 for attacking the girls while wide open.
The girls chose to do the most amateur thing, which was to get the attention of everyone and do silly posses and take their time transforming while wide open.

Goku sure as heck didn't take his battle against Copy Vegeta seriously and couldn't care less that Vegeta was dying.

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by ABED » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:19 pm

super michael wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:51 pm Goku wasn't going to let Freeza reach his full power originally, until Freeza got the chance and he started powering up and Goku let him reach his full power. Goku didn't let Freeza reach full power just for his excitement, he let him reach full power to avenge Krillin and humiliate him.

However Goku would interrupt someone special attack and attack when wide open, example Reccoom and King Piccolo. Goku in the ToP doesn't dare do that and is unhappy at C17 for attacking the girls while wide open.
The girls chose to do the most amateur thing, which was to get the attention of everyone and do silly posses and take their time transforming while wide open.

Goku sure as heck didn't take his battle against Copy Vegeta seriously and couldn't care less that Vegeta was dying.
It doesn't matter what he originally intended. It's what he did. You can say he intended to humiliate him but he explicitly says he wants to see Freeza at his best. He's not doing the prudent thing. He's not being "serious". Letting someone reach their full power just to humiliate them is every bit about satisfying some personal urge. Is it that he's "serious" that you prefer that to outright enjoying battle? I find this whole "take things seriously" idea more than a tad silly.

And no he wouldn't necessarily interrupte someone's special attack if they are wide open. Goku lets Piccolo destroy Papaya Island during the 23rd TB even though he was wide open.

And it is completely untrue that he didn't care that Vegeta was dying. I rewatched the episodes. It's not like Vegeta was panicking. Goku cares in the same way he cared when he fought Piccolo or Buu. He cares that his world and friends are in danger but he also loves a good battle.
Last edited by ABED on Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
super michael
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1065
Joined: Mon Dec 14, 2020 6:05 am

Re: Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

Post by super michael » Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:42 pm

ABED wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 6:19 pm
super michael wrote: Sat Jan 30, 2021 4:51 pm Goku wasn't going to let Freeza reach his full power originally, until Freeza got the chance and he started powering up and Goku let him reach his full power. Goku didn't let Freeza reach full power just for his excitement, he let him reach full power to avenge Krillin and humiliate him.

However Goku would interrupt someone special attack and attack when wide open, example Reccoom and King Piccolo. Goku in the ToP doesn't dare do that and is unhappy at C17 for attacking the girls while wide open.
The girls chose to do the most amateur thing, which was to get the attention of everyone and do silly posses and take their time transforming while wide open.

Goku sure as heck didn't take his battle against Copy Vegeta seriously and couldn't care less that Vegeta was dying.
It doesn't matter what he originally intended. It's what he did. You can say he intended to humiliate him but he explicitly says he wants to see Freeza at his best. He's not doing the prudent thing. He's not being "serious". Letting someone reach their full power just to humiliate them is every bit about satisfying some personal urge. Is it that he's "serious" that you prefer that to outright enjoying battle? I find this whole "take things seriously" idea more than a tad silly.

And no he wouldn't necessarily interrupte someone's special attack if they are wide open. Goku lets Piccolo destroy Papaya Island during the 23rd TB even though he was wide open.

And BS that he didn't care that Vegeta was dying. I rewatched the episodes. It's not like Vegeta was panicking.
Looks like I am wrong Goku wanted to make Freeza swallow his pride, I will let the image do the talking instead.
https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... 325/10.jpg
I don't know where I got the humiliating part from. Then again humiliate and swallow pride doesn't make any difference.
Although only Goku and Freeza life was in danger, no one else was in danger especially since the planet was exploding.

Goku had to warn everyone so they don't get caught up in the explosion in the 23rd Martial Art Tournament, there were people life in danger.
Against King Piccolo there was no one there and he didn't know what his attack was. However when Goku saw that King Piccolo let his guard down he attacked.

https://read.mangadad.com/Mangadad/drag ... -159/6.jpg

So what Vegeta has to panick for Goku not to waste time and holding back. Goku asking pointless question to waste even more time.

When King Piccolo took Tien hostage, Goku cared so much that he did whatever King Piccolo said to prevent Tien from being killed. Goku didn't show that in Copy Vegeta Saga.

Post Reply