Dub-fans, was there an adjustment period for you when Goku started to be portrayed correctly in DBS?

[super michael]

When Jiren attacked Goku friends and when Master Roshi was dying, the way that Goku reacted is the Goku I have always known. Lets not forget when Goku found out about Future Goten and Future Chi Chi death, that was exactly the reaction I would expect from Goku.

Goku wanting to train with Vegeta, that was really good since that was something new.

Although sadly DBS Anime has episode that makes Goku appear that he has regressed and is worse than his kid self version at times.

[ABED]

Let's not forget that Goku has put the thrill of the fight above "being serious" plenty of times throughout the show. And whether anyone thinks that's okay or not, it's perfectly in character. Or does it not count if he still looks stern when he does it?

[super michael]

Let's not forget that Goku has put the thrill of the fight above "being serious" plenty of times throughout the show. And whether anyone thinks that's okay or not, it's perfectly in character. Or does it not count if he still looks stern when he does it?

The times I remember Goku putting the thrill of the fight before the safety of the earth are these below:

1st Piccolo Jr, Goku really wanted to win that title. Goku has an excuse here.
2nd Kid Buu, he was the one who chose to destroy the potara and then Vegeta for the 2nd time. There is no excuse.
3rd Cell giving him a senzu bean, no excuse there but luckily Goku acknowledge his mistakes. I almost forgot this point.

There is Freeza but that wasn't for the thrill of the battle but to avenge Krillin and make Freeza swallow his pride.

In Copy Vegeta saga Vegeta was disappearing dying, but that didn't matter anything to Goku at all.

[MasenkoHA]

.

There is Freeza but that wasn't for the thrill of the battle but to avenge Krillin and make Freeza swallow his pride.

Letting Freeza power up has jack all to do with avenging Kuririn and was all about having a good fight

He also spared Vegeta for a rematch despite Vegeta facilitating the death of 4 of his friends and a clear danger to the earth


And ignoring Bulma’s suggestion of stopping Gero from creating the cyborgs in the first place . Sure he rationalized he hadn’t done anything yet but even that was just an excuse because he was well aware that Gero was associated with the red ribbon army and definitely had been involved with terrible things likely being responsible for weapons that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of people.

[ABED]

1st Piccolo Jr, Goku really wanted to win that title. Goku has an excuse here.

His excuse is that he REALLY wants to win?

You forgot about the time Goku let Vegeta go EXPLICITLY so he could fight him again. The times you named are significant and that you can name multiple times he did it throughout the series should put a bullet through brain of the idea that Goku started taking fights seriously after some point.

In Copy Vegeta saga Vegeta was disappearing dying, but that didn't matter anything to Goku at all.

That's not remotely true. It's like unless Goku is super stern and mad, people don't think Goku is serious or that something matters to him.

[MyVisionity]

Trying to reconcile Goku's character in Super with Goku from DB/DBZ is a flawed endeavor in the first place. The previous arcs don't necessarily have any bearing on anything that plays out in Super. Whether talking about characterization or anything else.

[ABED]

The previous arcs don't necessarily have any bearing on anything that plays out in Super. Whether talking about characterization or anything else.

What does this even mean?

[Hulk10]

I never saw the original Z dub except for the Buu Saga arc so I didn't notice a difference.

[MyVisionity]

The previous arcs don't necessarily have any bearing on anything that plays out in Super. Whether talking about characterization or anything else.

What does this even mean?

Super is its own thing while the previous series was the previous series. It's not simply the "next chapter" in the Dragon Ball story or whatever. There's too much of a disconnect between the series for there to actually be any kind of meaningful discussion about things like character development or story progression or continuity etc. Super is just too far removed from what came before to actually expect things to line up with the original series in any fashion.

[super michael]

.

There is Freeza but that wasn't for the thrill of the battle but to avenge Krillin and make Freeza swallow his pride.

Letting Freeza power up has jack all to do with avenging Kuririn and was all about having a good fight

He also spared Vegeta for a rematch despite Vegeta facilitating the death of 4 of his friends and a clear danger to the earth


And ignoring Bulma’s suggestion of stopping Gero from creating the cyborgs in the first place . Sure he rationalized he hadn’t done anything yet but even that was just an excuse because he was well aware that Gero was associated with the red ribbon army and definitely had been involved with terrible things likely being responsible for weapons that resulted in the deaths of hundreds of people.

I can’t look up the chapter now, but I am sure Goku said from his words that he wanted to avenge Krillin and make Freeza swallow his pride.

I forgot about Vegeta and to make it worse Vegeta threatened to blow up the earth. This is a excellent point.

There is no excuse for Goku not getting rid of problem to come, which was getting rid of Dr.Gero and the cyborgs. So I have to agree with you 100%.

1st Piccolo Jr, Goku really wanted to win that title. Goku has an excuse here.

His excuse is that he REALLY wants to win?

You forgot about the time Goku let Vegeta go EXPLICITLY so he could fight him again. The times you named are significant and that you can name multiple times he did it throughout the series should put a bullet through brain of the idea that Goku started taking fights seriously after some point.

In Copy Vegeta saga Vegeta was disappearing dying, but that didn't matter anything to Goku at all.

That's not remotely true. It's like unless Goku is super stern and mad, people don't think Goku is serious or that something matters to him.

If Goku got help from anyone, then Goku title as the World Martial Art would be declared as disqualified. Goku lost two times the world Martial Art, so it is understandable that Goku wanted to win.

As for Copy Vegeta, Goku wanted to waste as much time as possible. Holding back and asking many pointless question isn’t taking it serious. If Vegeta life wasn’t on a time limit then there would be no issues in Goku wasting time.

Goku showed no emotion about Vegeta dying.

In the Freeza Saga when Vegeta was dying, Goku showed a lot of emotion and got angry when Freeza shot Vegeta.

[ABED]

Vegeta was disappearing, he wasn't on death's door with hole shot through his heart. And just because someone isn't angry doesn't mean he's not concerned.

it is understandable that Goku wanted to win.

Agreed, but kinda blows a hole in the idea that he knows how to take things "seriously".

As for Copy Vegeta, Goku wanted to waste as much time as possible. Holding back and asking many pointless question isn’t taking it serious. If Vegeta life wasn’t on a time limit then there would be no issues in Goku wasting time.

Because as we saw plenty of times, Goku loves the fight. It's why he gives Cell the senzu and doesn't take the potara when offered to him.

Super is its own thing while the previous series was the previous series. It's not simply the "next chapter" in the Dragon Ball story or whatever. There's too much of a disconnect between the series for there to actually be any kind of meaningful discussion about things like character development or story progression or continuity etc. Super is just too far removed from what came before to actually expect things to line up with the original series in any fashion.

I get that but what I was asking was more how you came to this conclusion because I don't agree. Vegeta and Gohan and even Piccolo go in fairly organic directions. After Buu nearly destroys the universe, a multiverse is a fairly obvious direction.

[MasenkoHA]

I can’t look up the chapter now, but I am sure Goku said from his words that he wanted to avenge Krillin and make Freeza swallow his pride.

People rationalize things to themselves all the time. Goku can make any claim about wanting to avenge Krillin and demoralize Freeza but at the end of the day he’s letting Freeza power up to full strength so he can test his own power. It’s of no benefit to Krillin to allow Freeza to potentially become stronger than Goku.

If Goku got help from anyone, then Goku title as the World Martial Art would be declared as disqualified. Goku lost two times the world Martial Art, so it is understandable that Goku wanted to win.

The fate of the earth was at stake here. It’s understandable that Goku wanted to prove to himself that he was the strongest under the heavens but it doesn’t make him look any less myopic in his priorities.

Sure if I don’t get help I may die and the world will be controlled by an evil demon king but if I get help I’ll be disqualified from a prize fight!!

[MyVisionity]

Super is its own thing while the previous series was the previous series. It's not simply the "next chapter" in the Dragon Ball story or whatever. There's too much of a disconnect between the series for there to actually be any kind of meaningful discussion about things like character development or story progression or continuity etc. Super is just too far removed from what came before to actually expect things to line up with the original series in any fashion.

I get that but what I was asking was more how you came to this conclusion because I don't agree. Vegeta and Gohan and even Piccolo go in fairly organic directions. After Buu nearly destroys the universe, a multiverse is a fairly obvious direction.

Sure maybe there are some things that connect back to the original series, but it's not an expectation in general that I would have for Super in the first place. It doesn't surprise me when Goku in Super is perceived as being a different character from Goku in the original. That only seems natural. What does surprise me is when attempts are made to bridge these perceived differences back with the original series, because that does not make sense to me. Super doesn't make me feel like it should be considered as belonging to the same story.

[ABED]

That's just a restatement of your original point. I still don't get how you consider it unconnected. And Goku isn't a completely different character in Super. He's a more exaggerated version of himself, but still in the ballpark.

[MyVisionity]

"More exaggerated, but still in the ballpark" is how Super itself could be described. "Different, but not completely different" as well. These are all signs that the show is disconnected from the original. Particularly when it doesn't apply to just Goku, but any of the other characters or aspects of the series overall.

[ABED]

"More exaggerated, but still in the ballpark" is how Super itself could be described. "Different, but not completely different" as well. These are all signs that the show is disconnected from the original. Particularly when it doesn't apply to just Goku, but any of the other characters or aspects of the series overall.

That's a stretch to say it's disconnected. It's not like DB is subtle. Super exaggerates certain aspects more but that happens in any long running story in effort to keep things going - aspects get more exaggerated as time goes on, but since DB's appeal was never its subtelty or groundedness, I hardly see the issue. I think you overlook how Vegeta and Gohan both go in very organic places from last we saw them.

And you continue to be vague. other than Goku how is the story disconnected from what came before?

[MyVisionity]

Super exaggerates certain aspects more but that happens in any long running story in effort to keep things going - aspects get more exaggerated as time goes on, but since DB's appeal was never its subtelty or groundedness, I hardly see the issue.

Except it's not exactly a "long-running story" exaggerating "as time goes on". It *was* a long running story that ended and then was revived twenty years later. Super doesn't have the excuse that they just been trying to keep things going the whole time.

[MasenkoHA]

Super exaggerates certain aspects more but that happens in any long running story in effort to keep things going - aspects get more exaggerated as time goes on, but since DB's appeal was never its subtelty or groundedness, I hardly see the issue.

Except it's not exactly a "long-running story" exaggerating "as time goes on". It *was* a long running story that ended and then was revived twenty years later. Super doesn't have the excuse that they just been trying to keep things going the whole time.

But it does have to work with what came before and build off that.

Vegeta is reformed now so since he can’t be the pouty would be big bad we see a much more comedic side to him.

Super is much more slice of life than Z, which was always “impending doom” so Goku’s goofier side comes out and gets more exaggerated to lean into Super being more comedic than most of Z .

[ABED]

Super exaggerates certain aspects more but that happens in any long running story in effort to keep things going - aspects get more exaggerated as time goes on, but since DB's appeal was never its subtelty or groundedness, I hardly see the issue.

Except it's not exactly a "long-running story" exaggerating "as time goes on". It *was* a long running story that ended and then was revived twenty years later. Super doesn't have the excuse that they just been trying to keep things going the whole time.

DB did exaggerate. The scale went off the charts and by the end, there were so many exaggerated gag elements put back in, it would've felt like a very different story if DB didn't switch tones constantly. You still haven't explained why you think the story is disconnected from what came before. The most specific you've been is Goku.