Asian characters in Dragon Ball

[jjgp1112]

If the Saiyan saga was adapted into a live action movie, I could see someone like The Rock playing Nappa. The only DB characters that I could see being caucasian are Bluma, Dr. Gero, #16, #18 and Mr. Satan.

I always thought of Mr. Satan as either being Middle Eastern or mixed Black/White.

Also, General Blue and Commander Red are White. Launch is also White. I'm sure there's even more than that.

General Blue sure because he’s definitely suppose to be German. Not sure about Lunch or Red though.


Mr.Satan always came off as a parody of American pro wrestlers which seems to be a predominantly white sport

Eh...gotta stop you right there. Pro Wrestling is arguably more popular in Japan than it is in America courtesy of AJPW and NJPW and has been that way since the 60s.

[ABED]

Not sure death of the author applies to character design.

Death of the author applies the interpretation of a text, in manga/comics the visuals are their text, character design are part of the visuals, therefore death of the author can be applied to character design.

That's a bit of a stretch. He was meant to look like jackie chan. How does death of the author apply other than to say you don't think he hit the mark.

[MasenkoHA]

I always thought of Mr. Satan as either being Middle Eastern or mixed Black/White.

Also, General Blue and Commander Red are White. Launch is also White. I'm sure there's even more than that.

General Blue sure because he’s definitely suppose to be German. Not sure about Lunch or Red though.


Mr.Satan always came off as a parody of American pro wrestlers which seems to be a predominantly white sport

Eh...gotta stop you right there. Pro Wrestling is arguably more popular in Japan than it is in America courtesy of AJPW and NJPW and has been that way since the 60s.

Well I learned something new today. Neat

[Cursed Lemon]

Also Mexico. lol

[Kid Buu]

I always thought Nappa looked like Bill Goldberg.

Whose Next?

[MyVisionity]

Not a Scarface expert, but it seems like Tony Montana possibly has some kind of Italian ancestry, given the name and character origins. But aside from any of that, who says Pacino playing Cuban isn't wrong?

Wrong in what way? Wrong because it practically doesn't work? Or wrong because of some murky sense of virtue signaling?

In a practical sense, it did work. Because the movie is successful, and Pacino pulls off the role well.

Wrong in the sense of racism, white supremacy, and appropriation. Obviously anything can be made to work in the "practical" sense, wrong or not.

Successful for whom? The United States of America? The film's White star Al Pacino?

If there was an alien race of characters who happened to look like black guys all based off Anansi or some other African folk character...well I'd expect a black people to play them even though "They're aliens." You can't be obtuse about it.

I wouldn't expect anything. I would simply look at what the writer/artist is doing. If the writer is unambiguously making this alien race all look black, then yeah. But an artist/writer can easily take an African folk character, make an alien race based off of that character, and choose to change them up a lot and add all their own little quirks and twists to it to the point where this alien race looks ethnically distinct (but maybe still looks human).

If the writer does that, then I'm gonna simply use my eyes and see what they are doing. I'm not gonna expect anything just because the writer happens to be from Africa. The writer is an individual, at the end of the day, with their own individual thoughts and ideas. What you expect from them, might be dramatically different than what they want to create!

The writer is an individual, yes, but not *only* an individual. They are both an individual as well as a piece of a larger society. Those thoughts and ideas are not solely their own, they were formed and molded in part by the world that the writer was born, raised, and lives in, and those same thoughts and ideas will themselves shape and mold that very world.

The writer being from Africa is not incidental, certainly not if the characters were based upon the Twi trickster hero Ananse, or Sun Wukong in the case of Asia.

eeeeh...I think that's a stretch. I never got the sense that she's meant to be European. Instead, Bulma is a city girl solely meant to contrast with Goku's country bumpkin sensibilities. Think about when DB was created, around the time of the economic boom of Japan. A lot of Bulma's personality matches that of that sort of City Pop era. Of course there was a lot of western influence back then--but that's a lot of Japanese anime at the time. Shit, it's already been mentioned on this site how much Toriyama was clearly influenced by Star Wars.

So no..I don't think Bulma was meant to be anything more than a Japanese girl from the city.

I agree with this. I think that Bulma/Buruma could just as well be recognized as a modern Japanese girl as much as White. Contrasting the rural Chinese characters like Goku and company.

Yeah, there's the bit about her living far to the west, but is that necessarily alluding to the Western world? Could it possibly just be a reference to Journey to the West?

[MasenkoHA]

Bulma is from the West of Mount Paozu (which is suppose to be somewhere in China), she’s a gun nut (or was that kinda got dropped after that one gag in the Saiyan saga) , and early concept art back when Goku and Oolong looked way more like their JttW counterparts had Bulma as a Cowgirl https://thedaoofdragonball.com/wp-conte ... ound-1.jpg



I don’t think there’s enough hard evidence that Bulma is suppose to be a white American the same way Son Goku is absolutely suppose to resemble a Chinese boy but the evidence is there. But if we’re talking theoretical Dragon Ball movie I’d say a Chinese or at least East Asian actor would need to play Goku where Bulma I’d say “colorblind” casting would apply

[Adamant]

Yeah, there's the bit about her living far to the west, but is that necessarily alluding to the Western world? Could it possibly just be a reference to Journey to the West?

If Dragonball had been a story about Bulma's journey back home, that would've made sense. But the location of Bulma's home in relation to the area the story is set in plays absolutely no role in the procedings whatsoever.

A Japanese reader seeing a character like Bulma talk about how she's from "far to the west" is going to associate that with America/Europe, not western Japan. It's the same way an American reading the word "the south" is going to instantly think of southern USA, not Australia.

[MasenkoHA]

If anything it was Bulma’s Journey FROM the West

[ABED]

I don't think it's a coincidence that Bulma is from West City/Metro West

[kemuri07]

Bulma is from the West of Mount Paozu (which is suppose to be somewhere in China), she’s a gun nut (or was that kinda got dropped after that one gag in the Saiyan saga) , and early concept art back when Goku and Oolong looked way more like their JttW counterparts had Bulma as a Cowgirl https://thedaoofdragonball.com/wp-conte ... ound-1.jpg



I don’t think there’s enough hard evidence that Bulma is suppose to be a white American the same way Son Goku is absolutely suppose to resemble a Chinese boy but the evidence is there. But if we’re talking theoretical Dragon Ball movie I’d say a Chinese or at least East Asian actor would need to play Goku where Bulma I’d say “colorblind” casting would apply

The problem with using "Bulma is a gun nut" as evidence is that the Japanese are also really into firearms as well. I mean, shit, look at the air soft guns that you can buy in Japan. Ridiculously realistic recreations of actual firearms that will absolutely get you arrested or shot if you tried bringing them in to the States.

Like I said, there was a lot of western influences making its way to Japan around this time.

[MasenkoHA]

Bulma is from the West of Mount Paozu (which is suppose to be somewhere in China), she’s a gun nut (or was that kinda got dropped after that one gag in the Saiyan saga) , and early concept art back when Goku and Oolong looked way more like their JttW counterparts had Bulma as a Cowgirl https://thedaoofdragonball.com/wp-conte ... ound-1.jpg



I don’t think there’s enough hard evidence that Bulma is suppose to be a white American the same way Son Goku is absolutely suppose to resemble a Chinese boy but the evidence is there. But if we’re talking theoretical Dragon Ball movie I’d say a Chinese or at least East Asian actor would need to play Goku where Bulma I’d say “colorblind” casting would apply

The problem with using "Bulma is a gun nut" as evidence is that the Japanese are also really into firearms as well. I mean, shit, look at the air soft guns that you can buy in Japan. Ridiculously realistic recreations of actual firearms that will absolutely get you arrested or shot if you tried bringing them in to the States.

Like I said, there was a lot of western influences making its way to Japan around this time.

The gun nut stereotype is being exclusively an American one (and not without reason) Japan also has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Pretending Japan is just as gun obsessed as America is honestly pretty silly especially given America’s track record

[MyVisionity]

Yeah maybe considering the early prototype design for Bulma she's supposed to be White, but I'm still not so sure about the "far to the west" bit. Maybe it's like MasenkoHA said a "Journey from the West" with Toriyama doing the inverse thing.

[Jaetinh]

It does matter, him being revealed as an alien later on doesn't change anything. It doesn't change that he was based on Sun Wukong, has the same name, lives in a Chinese inspired setting etc. Toriyama didn't place him in the Western Dragon Ball World, he didn't give him a Western Dragon Ball name (Bulma, Trunks, Lunch w/e), he didn't give him blue eyes and blond hair. He decided to make him a tan/"yellow", black eyed and black haired Asian, give him an Asian name, place him in the mountains of "China", make him wear Chinese martial arts clothes etc. It's not a coincidence. Son Goku was created as an Asian boy and the Saiyans were based on him. Those are the facts. Even if it was the other way around, Saiyans are still described as "yellow", black eyed and black haired. When have you EVER seen people aside from East and Southeast Asians being referred to as "yellow"?

Stories evolve and their lore reveals new things. Saiyans at this point, are very much their own thing. They're a distant derivation from Sun Wukong. And at this point, they look like their own ethnicity.

Remember how you said I was putting words in your mouth? How am I wrong though?

Because you said that I thought Goku looks white, and I never said that. I don't think Goku looks unambiguously white.

You're doing absolutely everything you can to deny Goku of being Asian. "I never said I thought Goku looked white either." and yet you would cast a white character to portray him in live action. Isn't it obvious?

Or an Asian, or anybody who can fit the role and capture his character well.

You're denying Son Goku of being Asian because you believe Son Goku could or should be white.

Again, I don't think Goku or Saiyans look white. I think they look like their own ethnicity.

Son Goku alongside Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yajirobe, Chaozu and Yamcha are clearly Asians.

And besides Goku, all those characters are human.

This isn't a group of one white protagonist and his Asian pals. This white savior trope is something you're used to see in Hollywood with Iron Fist, The Last Samurai etc. but it sure doesn't exist in Dragon Ball. Delusional.

Still trying to claim that I said Goku looks white when I never said that.

Yes, stories do evolve. In this case, the Asian human boy Son Goku turned out to be an Asian looking alien who came from a homogenous alien race based on Asians.

The reason why you're so adamant on Saiyans being their own ethnicity is because that means there's some hope that Goku could be white in your eyes. I said "You're denying Son Goku of being Asian because you believe Son Goku could or should be white." You may not be explicitly saying it but isn't it kind of obvious that's the reason? By implying that Saiyans should be their own ethnicity, it leaves room for you to believe that Son Goku could be white.

[Polyphase Avatron]

The reason why you're so adamant on Saiyans being their own ethnicity is because that means there's some hope that Goku could be white in your eyes. I said "You're denying Son Goku of being Asian because you believe Son Goku could or should be white." You may not be explicitly saying it but isn't it kind of obvious that's the reason? By implying that Saiyans should be their own ethnicity, it leaves room for you to believe that Son Goku could be white.

If the argument goes that he can't be Asian since he's an alien, then he can't be white either...

[WittyUsername]

I’d say it’s pretty reasonable to assume that Bulma is coded as white, in the same way that Goku is coded as Chinese/East Asian.

[kemuri07]

Bulma is from the West of Mount Paozu (which is suppose to be somewhere in China), she’s a gun nut (or was that kinda got dropped after that one gag in the Saiyan saga) , and early concept art back when Goku and Oolong looked way more like their JttW counterparts had Bulma as a Cowgirl https://thedaoofdragonball.com/wp-conte ... ound-1.jpg



I don’t think there’s enough hard evidence that Bulma is suppose to be a white American the same way Son Goku is absolutely suppose to resemble a Chinese boy but the evidence is there. But if we’re talking theoretical Dragon Ball movie I’d say a Chinese or at least East Asian actor would need to play Goku where Bulma I’d say “colorblind” casting would apply

The problem with using "Bulma is a gun nut" as evidence is that the Japanese are also really into firearms as well. I mean, shit, look at the air soft guns that you can buy in Japan. Ridiculously realistic recreations of actual firearms that will absolutely get you arrested or shot if you tried bringing them in to the States.

Like I said, there was a lot of western influences making its way to Japan around this time.

The gun nut stereotype is being exclusively an American one (and not without reason) Japan also has some of the strictest gun laws in the world. Pretending Japan is just as gun obsessed as America is honestly pretty silly especially given America’s track record

But that doesn't mean there isn't a gun culture in Japan, which there very much is one. Look at the amount of anime featuring characters with guns or the amount of mecha or military anime. Shit how about the Yakuza or detective films that were absolutely the rage around that time It might be difficult to purchase a gun in Japan, but certainly does not mean that the Japanese didn't romantacize guns.


Like I said before, man: Even when it's not real, some people want it white.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Wrong in the sense of racism, white supremacy, and appropriation.

There's nothing racist, or white supremacist about it.

Successful for whom? The United States of America? The film's White star Al Pacino?

..... sure.

The writer is an individual, yes, but not *only* an individual. They are both an individual as well as a piece of a larger society. Those thoughts and ideas are not solely their own, they were formed and molded in part by the world that the writer was born, raised, and lives in, and those same thoughts and ideas will themselves shape and mold that very world.

That doesn't mean I'm gonna have expectations of how they write their story before reading it. I'm simply gonna read their story and see what they do.

The writer being from Africa is not incidental, certainly not if the characters were based upon the Twi trickster hero Ananse, or Sun Wukong in the case of Asia.

It doesn't mean the character they're based on will look like them. A writer can still do whatever the hell they want.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Yes, stories do evolve. In this case, the Asian human boy Son Goku turned out to be an Asian looking alien who came from a homogenous alien race based on Asians.

Except we can't tell if he looks Asian due to the style of the art.

The reason why you're so adamant on Saiyans being their own ethnicity is because that means there's some hope that Goku could be white in your eyes.

Except I don't think Goku looks white.

Also, that doesn't even make sense. Why the hell would I want Goku to be white?

You may not be explicitly saying it but isn't it kind of obvious that's the reason? By implying that Saiyans should be their own ethnicity

It's not. You're just projecting. Or you're trying to vilify me in order to have some sense of moral superiority over me.

I meant what I said. Goku and the Saiyans look like their own ethnicity.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Goku is based on Jackie Chan. It's even more obvious when you look at his prototype designs and predecessors - I believe he was pressured by Torishima to give him the crazy hair. Toriyama has even said he can't picture anybody other than Young Jackie Chan playing Goku in a movie.

Ehh, I mean he doesn't really look like Jackie Chan, but okay.

This is why I like to adhere to the concept of Death of the Author.

Not sure death of the author applies to character design.

From what I understand, Death of the Author basically means you're viewing their work as if the author is not around to clarify anything. It's the idea that you should only consider the actual fictional work itself, and not anything external like author interviews or anything.

In other words, if Goku is suppose to look like Jackie Chan, then it should be obvious to the viewer who's only source of information is the manga itself.