GT and misogyny

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KBABZ
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:34 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:26 pm
You don't need intent to do something thoughtless and harmful.
Kinda the moral of this whole thread, honestly.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:36 pm

KBABZ wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:34 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:26 pm
You don't need intent to do something thoughtless and harmful.
Kinda the moral of this whole thread, honestly.
Hence why we must hold the powerful accountable for their use or misuse of their platforms.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:37 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:15 pm


"Man dresses as woman to deceive straight man, gets found out as Having a Penis" is a pretty common joke.
You’re right it is and if Goku had dressed up as a girl to have sex with Oolong I’d agree with you but Goku isn’t trying to get with Oolong he doesn’t even want to wear the clothes. He’s dressed up as someone Oolong is preying on to have Oolong take him to the other girls.
Not to mention hating penis is just stupid. The joke. Is predicated on "being gay and/or trans is bad" and "trans women are just men trying to trick straight men into 'gay' sex."
There are plenty of being gay is bad jokes in Dragon Ball but that really isn’t one of them.


I absolutely do think Toriyama isn’t above cheap transphobic humor but that doesn’t seem like a solid example.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:39 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:26 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:24 pm
I’m not positive that Toriyama in 1984 even realized what a transperson is.
*trans person.
My mistake. I’m not sure why I typed it as one word.

Anyway, there’s a long list of things that Toriyama seemed to have been thoughtless about. Japan in general isn’t exactly the most progressive country on the planet and things were even worse back in the 80s and 90s.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Soppa Saia People » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:41 pm

i also think oolong's line about not liking a penis is more just to show how pervey he is about women, rather then oolong thinking gay people are gross or anything. like don't get me wrong it's a pretty lazy joke, and it's very of its time, but i don't think it's especially bad or anything.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:43 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:37 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:15 pm


"Man dresses as woman to deceive straight man, gets found out as Having a Penis" is a pretty common joke.
You’re right it is and if Goku had dressed up as a girl to have sex with Oolong I’d agree with you but Goku isn’t trying to get with Oolong he doesn’t even want to wear the clothes. He’s dressed up as someone Oolong is preying on to have Oolong take him to the other girls.
Not to mention hating penis is just stupid. The joke. Is predicated on "being gay and/or trans is bad" and "trans women are just men trying to trick straight men into 'gay' sex."
There are plenty of being gay is bad jokes in Dragon Ball but that really isn’t one of them.


I absolutely do think Toriyama isn’t above cheap transphobic humor but that doesn’t seem like a solid example.
The implication is still there, though. Furthermore, it's being implied that Oolong is going after girls for unspeakable deeds. While the ending might be a gag where Oolong gets comeuppance it's still being built off of the idea that "men in dresses are deceitful" and a joke. These are incredibly harmful tropes to propagate and someone at the publishing company should know better.

Re penis: but the implication of "I like women only, therefore hate penis" is still transphobic to men and women because penis does not man or woman make.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 pm

It may not but what's wrong with Oolong not liking penises?

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:49 pm

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 pm
It may not but what's wrong with Oolong not liking penises?
It's less that and more the joke of "THAT GIRL HAS A PENIS, IT'S A TRAP!!", which is very problematic.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:52 pm

If a person views a penis as a turnoff, there’s not really anything that can be done about that. There are some pretty problematic things about Oolong, but that one seems rather tame.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:46 pm
It may not but what's wrong with Oolong not liking penises?
Oolong's implication in the context is that he hates penis' because it means that 'penis means man', but he doesn't like men...well, hell, until he saw the penis he was pretty into Gokuu anyway. Oolong is also implying that a woman is only good for her vagina.

Toriyama and Morishita clearly placed zero thought into the production of the scene and it's really annoying.

(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 pm

That's not the implication. It's saying he's not into guys.
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
To which I say "Tough!" If someone is turned off by that, that's just not what they are attracted to.
Last edited by ABED on Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:02 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
. Oolong is also implying that a woman is only good for her vagina.
Oolong is also a shitbucket though.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:03 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:02 pm
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
. Oolong is also implying that a woman is only good for her vagina.
Oolong is also a shitbucket though.
Eh, yeah. I just wish the moral/resolution had been a little more pointed given the plethora of issues with the story.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm

Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:07 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 pm
That's not the implication. It's saying he's not into guys.
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
To which I say "Tough!" If someone is turned off by that, that's just not what they are attracted to.
Illustrating "penis equals guy" is the issue, though. Oolong can be straight, implying that it's the genitalia that is the issue is the issue.

Also, it's your right to turn someone down for whatever reason but that doesn't mean you aren't being an asshole transphobe.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm
Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
Even weirder is every single english dub (Harmony Gold, BLT, Funimation Studios, Blue Water) made him an adult instead of a kid so there’s the whole pedophillia aspect of him taking child brides instead of just being a creepy pervy kid.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm
Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
Even weirder is every single english dub (Harmony Gold, BLT, Funimation Studios, Blue Water) made him an adult instead of a kid so there’s the whole pedophillia aspect of him taking child brides instead of just being a creepy pervy kid.
I don’t think they actually made him an adult? I know they all gave him adult sounding voices, but if I recall, his backstory is still more or less kept intact.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:14 pm

WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:11 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:09 pm
WittyUsername wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:05 pm
Eh. Oolong was only “into” Goku because he thought he was someone else and it was presumably only for sexual purposes anyway. The fact that Oolong is willing to do sexual things with girls against their will is more problematic than him being grossed out by penises.
Even weirder is every single english dub (Harmony Gold, BLT, Funimation Studios, Blue Water) made him an adult instead of a kid so there’s the whole pedophillia aspect of him taking child brides instead of just being a creepy pervy kid.
I don’t think they actually made him an adult? I know they all gave him adult sounding voices, but if I recall, his backstory is still more or less kept intact.

Any reference to him being a kid were removed in the dub though.


Learned about Gyumao in school> changed to being a former tour guide

Bulma said there’s something wrong about a kid having the mind of a dirty old man> changed to just saying there’s something not right above him


They also just said he and Puar went to shapeshifting school without specifying that it was a kindergarten ala the original Japanese version.

They definitely aged him up to an adult.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:16 pm

ABED wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 pm
That's not the implication. It's saying he's not into guys.
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
To which I say "Tough!" If someone is turned off by that, that's just not what they are attracted to.
As a trans woman myself I do agree it's problematic and I do understand the point about Oolong I was more so concerned that people couldn't not be into that.

I'm actually a trans woman that doesn't like penises lol. That said yeah, I agree with the overall consensus on that particular character.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:20 pm

JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:07 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 pm
That's not the implication. It's saying he's not into guys.
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
To which I say "Tough!" If someone is turned off by that, that's just not what they are attracted to.
Illustrating "penis equals guy" is the issue, though. Oolong can be straight, implying that it's the genitalia that is the issue is the issue.

Also, it's your right to turn someone down for whatever reason but that doesn't mean you aren't being an asshole transphobe.
Yes, it is an issue. It's just something he's not attracted to. That doesn't make someone a transphobe.
UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:16 pm
ABED wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:00 pm
That's not the implication. It's saying he's not into guys.
JulieYBM wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:57 pm
(Also, it's just offensive to turn down someone you're in to because of their genitalia).
To which I say "Tough!" If someone is turned off by that, that's just not what they are attracted to.
As a trans woman myself I do agree it's problematic and I do understand the point about Oolong I was more so concerned that people couldn't not be into that.

I'm actually a trans woman that doesn't like penises lol. That said yeah, I agree with the overall consensus on that particular character.
Sorry if I sound obtuse, but I don't understand your point.
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