GT and misogyny

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Cure Dragon 255
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:35 am

You are not making it up yes. But you are using it to dismiss sexism against women. I know Sexism hurts men too but you are doing a whataboutism. Which may have true arguments but are used in bad fiath fasshion to dismiss other stuff.
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:52 pm
It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:39 am

super michael wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:32 am
My question on the other hand is simple it is a yes or no question and I gave all the information needed about Sakura from Naruto. I even gave evidence about the discussion about Sakura incase you think I was making it up.
Your question is a clear deflection from the topic at hand so I feel no need to engage with it. And as Cure Dragon pointed out, that example only further proves the point being made in this thread anyway.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:45 am

Err...yeah, this is just whatabout-ism. The victim of this writing is Sakura for being relegated to the role of comedic relief because Kishimoto and his editors are too chicken shit to actually write for her most of the time. I actually like Sakura (she does have an arc, it's just rarely touched on) and think fans give her too much shit but that also doesn't excuse Kishimoto acting like women are space aliens nobody can understand. Most shounen comics creators do this and they need to be held to a higher standard in that regard. You have editors for a goddamn reason!
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by super michael » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:48 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote:
Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:35 am
You are not making it up yes. But you are using it to dismiss sexism against women. I know Sexism hurts men too but you are doing a whataboutism. Which may have true arguments but are used in bad fiath fasshion to dismiss other stuff.
Lets start with what I know Dragon Ball the manga and anime I know inside out. The female characters were treated horrible I agree with that, everytime Bulma needed something she normally had to do something embarrasing like show something, touch something of her or something to do with dating. Then there is Lunch a interesting character that was forgotten for no reason, she never appears in DBZ at all or DBS.

Then there is Master Roshi in DBS chasing and hassaring a female but no one cares or when Master Roshi was trying to do his thing with Puar transformed as a female character.

I can understand why people wouldn't like those writing at all. People wants to see character they can relate being useful, being important to the plot and being meaningful.

Then there the whole when a characters gets married they just happen to quit their hobby 100% and just happens to stop training and fighting altogether no matter how much they like it.

As for emotional support I can't say anything unless I understand what that means.
Last edited by super michael on Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Cure Dragon 255
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Thu Feb 25, 2021 11:50 am

Now we are talkin'! That's nice.
MyVisionity wrote:
Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:52 pm
It's ill-fitting for me. Dragon Ball is not a bedtime story. And "laid-back old man" is not how I would describe Yanami's narrator. To me he sounds like the kind of uncle that shows up to the birthday party with loads of fruit punch soda and stuffs himself with pizza and ice cream, or takes you out on his boat at the lake in the summer and goes skinny dipping or something.
90sDBZ wrote:
Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm
19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:28 pm

ABED wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:39 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Wed Feb 24, 2021 8:26 pm
There’s also tons of problematic humor in 80s American films (seriously pick any goddamn John Hughes movie and there’s either racism, rape humor, or both) it doesn’t make it less wrong. I can assure you people knew rape was bad in the 80s. We didn’t just figure it out in 2013
Not John Hughes but Revenge of the Nerds... sweet Jesus.
I like that movie(and Hughes films, especially since they were filmed in Northbrook which is fairly close to where I live and where my mom works) but yeah that whole scene is awkward today, even one of the actors from that film(Curtis Armstrong)had his character in American Dad take a potshot at that film over that scene.

Molly Ringwald also did a whole op-ed about her films with John Hughes and how some parts of them haven't aged well.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Soppa Saia People » Thu Feb 25, 2021 10:37 pm

yeah i'm a little late, and while i know basically nothing about nar roo toe, if sakura is a character that everybody in the fandom dislikes, and the author has openly stated he doesn't know how to write women, i'd more then likely guess that she's a victim of poor, Bitches Be Crazy writing, rather then it being a double standard or anything.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Fri Feb 26, 2021 3:21 am

As always the real issue is Sasuke. Sure Kishi could've wrote Sakura not still keeping her undying love for Sasuke but he also could've just not wrote Sasuke abusing her.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:03 pm

Toei in general is sexist.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote:
Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am
I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:09 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:03 pm
Toei in general is sexist.
Japan in general is sexist.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:53 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:09 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:03 pm
Toei in general is sexist.
Japan in general is sexist.
Earth in general is sexist.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Lord Beerus » Fri Feb 26, 2021 9:35 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:53 pm
Lord Beerus wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 6:09 pm
DBZAOTA482 wrote:
Fri Feb 26, 2021 4:03 pm
Toei in general is sexist.
Japan in general is sexist.
Earth in general is sexist.
Humanity in general sucks. But the idea that we can do better provides just enough of a reason to keep going forward and not see ourselves as lost causes.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by blacksymbiote » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:28 pm

Pan was more relevant in GT than Vegeta was.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:45 pm

blacksymbiote wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:28 pm
Pan was more relevant in GT than Vegeta was.
That doesn’t make turning her into a damsel and refusing to let her go Super Saiyan to continue to fulfill that role less sexist.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:50 pm

Many Men sure do like to loudly hand-wave misogyny because it does not personally affect them.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Champa The Destroyer » Sat Feb 27, 2021 3:58 pm

I know I'm late but I'd say that the misogyny and especially the more perverted "jokes" in Dragon Ball are my least favorite parts of the series. I'm glad that society as a whole is evolving more and more away from that (even if there is MUCH progress to still be made) but yeah, even the trope of "well I dont know how to write women so I'm gonna write them as (insert stereotype here)" is quite frustrating, that's why Chi Chi is a character whom people have mixed opinions on.

I also dont see the need for whatabout-ism, as this is a very serious and intricate topic to discuss. If how some of these stereotypes affect men is something that you want to be talked about, why not make a separate thread? I think that could be much more productive than arguments going in circles and distracting from the topic in this thread, which is more about Pan in GT (and on a more broad level, misogyny in Dragon Ball or anime in general).

This is a very massive topic to tackle and I dont see the harm in discussing how it affects men (as long as its mature discussion and not to put down the experience of women), I feel as though it's a big enough topic that something like that would need it's own separate thread, where it doesnt distract from this discussion itself.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:28 pm

I do think Dragon Ball undersells men, but only insomuch as it doesn't really portray cool men...it portrays and focuses on a bunch of assholes because lolz. Such is the curse of never really wanting to be serious or think serious...or have emotions. It's toxic masculinity from Toriyama and others.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by goku the krump dancer » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:28 pm

MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:45 pm
blacksymbiote wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:28 pm
Pan was more relevant in GT than Vegeta was.
That doesn’t make turning her into a damsel and refusing to let her go Super Saiyan to continue to fulfill that role less sexist.
Even if she did get Super Saiyan, she’d still get one shotted by Baby, Super 17 and Shenron, so what difference would that have made?
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:30 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:28 pm
MasenkoHA wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:45 pm
blacksymbiote wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 1:28 pm
Pan was more relevant in GT than Vegeta was.
That doesn’t make turning her into a damsel and refusing to let her go Super Saiyan to continue to fulfill that role less sexist.
Even if she did get Super Saiyan, she’d still get one shotted by Baby, Super 17 and Shenron, so what difference would that have made?
...then you focus on improving other aspects of the writing. Which you know...because it's right there in the post you just quoted.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Grimlock » Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:41 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote:
Sat Feb 27, 2021 4:28 pm
Even if she did get Super Saiyan, she’d still get one shotted by Baby, Super 17 and Shenron, so what difference would that have made?
If she had got Super Saiyan but her role were still of a damsel in distress, not doing much (even "one shotting" random/past villains, like Goten and Trunks were seeing doing it), then the problem would be even worse than it is already.

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