GT and misogyny

[Cursed Lemon]

The weird little coexistent subterfuge of assholes in the anime community is morbidly entertaining.

"Bro I thought we were all about cute girls being fashionable and dudes punching each other in the face (possibly also the reverse)!"

"We are! But also I really hate trans people!"

jackiechanmeme.jpg

It makes me question why I have even one measly thing in common with that type of individual, and it straight up makes me side-eye every single person I come across when, for example, I hit up a local con. Every weeb out there is a potential land mine.

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, I had a co-worker who was a mecha and cute anime girl fan but when I came out he became very...distant. "Like, just don't force your beliefs on me" distant. Sweetie, your girlfriend is bi please do not even with the transphobia. He was obsessed with his beard and always tried to get me to grow one, too.

I think queerphobia and transphobia in the anime community is really weird, considering the origins of the loanword 'Otaku' were as a homophonic/transphobic slur.

[Shaddy]

Every once in a while I sign onto some forum or subreddit for a thing I like and am shocked to see it kind of a mess with like 70 or 80 percent regular people, eight or nine percent insane weirdos. And you always get with these places a moderation team that says "no no, you have to be civil and debate a person with respect, even if their opinions offend you". Which, like, that's asking for one-way respect, but many times the userbase does it anyway and debunks the bad take, but since they're being forced to assume rationality on the part of everyone from flat-earthers to holocaust deniers, it inevitably ends with the shit-ass flinging something straight from hate speech lawsuit alley, before they're finally banned, only for the mods to do this why couldn't you guys just be CIVIL routine with the people who did exactly what they fucking asked. Some beliefs are just inherently worse than others. The marketplace of ideas, like any market, does not self-regulate.

So yeah, some online dipshit's idea of "free speech" is never going to measure up to a place with moderators who actually believe in things and govern according to those beliefs, even just the bare minimum like "not letting people spread antisemitic propaganda". If I wanted inane psychotic ramblings from people who are probably on a watchlist, I'd go on a chan board.

[super michael]

Yeah, it definitely sucks how much misogyny and transphobia exists in fandom spaces. Dragon Ball isn't the only fandom that suffers from this bullshit but since it's the one where I'm most active it definitely stands out a lot to me and has really underscored how I'm not the same person with the same priorities I used to be and used to have. Fandom is supposed to be fun but the internet really isn't a great place to have that fun, I find.

Anyway, I didn't get much sleep last night and I also don't really have anything new to add to the topic of "GT and misogyny" since I really don't like repeating myself.

As such, I'll just leave this post with this: be cool, stay in school.

About transgender I want to mention that is not something that is taught in school, I don’t know if they teach that nowadays but I know that wasn’t taught when I was in school.

In school I remember being taught the body part of a female and male body and what makes them different and what to wear for protection. In school book when someone has one part that makes them female and if it is the other part that makes them male.

I am only saying what the teacher told us student and what was written in text book. This was many decades ago. Maybe things has changed, but I have no idea.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Please dont do that. You could get in trouble. I feel you mean well but of course schools dont teach everything right.

Like the racism and imperialism that went into the building of America for one.

EDIT:Oh you are adressing Julie's stay in school thing. No thanks. School is hell and they dont even teach you anything useful. University maybe, school no. I wanted to adress this before but fuck school.

[super michael]

Please dont do that. You could get in trouble. I feel you mean well but of course schools dont teach everything right.

Like the racism and imperialism that went into the building of America for one.

EDIT:Oh you are adressing Julie's stay in school thing. No thanks. School is hell and they dont even teach you anything useful. University maybe, school no. I wanted to adress this before but fuck school.

I haven't gone to University yet, so that area is still unknown to me. I am doing my A levels and then I might go to University, it took a long time thanks to my health getting sick every month but luckily thanks to immunotherapy that is making my allergies way better which means I don't get sick often. I gone 1 year without getting sick.

Whatever someone learns can have a influence on how they see the world and if it is something they are not taught then they would have no idea. But your right school don't teach everything right, even their rule priority is weird.

My intention was to share the knowledge that I know, so maybe it is easier to understand how one doesn't understand.

Edit I know there are always new things to learn, heck many things that I thought was impossible are possible.

[JulieYBM]

Every once in a while I sign onto some forum or subreddit for a thing I like and am shocked to see it kind of a mess with like 70 or 80 percent regular people, eight or nine percent insane weirdos. And you always get with these places a moderation team that says "no no, you have to be civil and debate a person with respect, even if their opinions offend you". Which, like, that's asking for one-way respect, but many times the userbase does it anyway and debunks the bad take, but since they're being forced to assume rationality on the part of everyone from flat-earthers to holocaust deniers, it inevitably ends with the shit-ass flinging something straight from hate speech lawsuit alley, before they're finally banned, only for the mods to do this why couldn't you guys just be CIVIL routine with the people who did exactly what they fucking asked. Some beliefs are just inherently worse than others. The marketplace of ideas, like any market, does not self-regulate.

So yeah, some online dipshit's idea of "free speech" is never going to measure up to a place with moderators who actually believe in things and govern according to those beliefs, even just the bare minimum like "not letting people spread antisemitic propaganda". If I wanted inane psychotic ramblings from people who are probably on a watchlist, I'd go on a chan board.

Yeah, it's the weirdest thing. Arguing with those types is so exhausting and they prey on a culture of "honest debate" to wear down others. They're incessant and thrive off of hate, living stewed it in for their entire lives. This is why strong moderation is needed: there is no legitimate conversation to be had with a bigot. Ban and move on.

About transgender I want to mention that is not something that is taught in school, I don’t know if they teach that nowadays but I know that wasn’t taught when I was in school.

In school I remember being taught the body part of a female and male body and what makes them different and what to wear for protection. In school book when someone has one part that makes them female and if it is the other part that makes them male.

I am only saying what the teacher told us student and what was written in text book. This was many decades ago. Maybe things has changed, but I have no idea.

I don't recall being taught about trans stuff in school but I do feel like if I hadn't been massively brow-beaten by an abusive family and had known that there was a magical medicine that literally could make one into a hot girl I'd have died for it.

Gen Z's wider knowledge of trans issues really does make me so happy for them. They get to transition so much earlier in life than people such as myself did and it really makes me look forward to the future for how trans people are hopefully accepted. I see a lot of teen trans people with their supportive parents at my place of work and it just makes me so happy that I want to thank the parents for their support.

'Biology' as taught in schools is so outdated. Intersex people are completely skipped over and it really upsets me to see people falsely use their fourth grade understanding of biology to dictate how sex/gender works. I suggest checking out this cool video by Riley J. Dennis for more information on the subject. They attach sources in the description box, too.

[VegettoEX]

While there is interesting topic matter here, at this point (well, at a point long ago) it extends far beyond the scope of this topic. Forgive me for not being more clear and explicit in my previous response, but please keep it on-topic here in this thread. If there is a separate Dragon Ball-related conversation you wish to have, by all means create a new thread for it. Thank you!

[BWri]

I’m starting to believe that I made a terrible mistake when making this thread.

I almost felt that way about the question I asked and the chaos that immediately ensued. I think it's a great topic though, especially since its spawned a lot of other related side-topics. It's something worth thinking about.

And with my previous question, I wasn't saying to replace the entire male cast with all women, but to focus in on 2 or 3 female protagonists and some female villains as well. The goal being to find a better balance and tell new stories. I think it can be done well, but admittedly, I'm sure it would alienate a sizeable portion of the fan-base, at least initially. If it's undeniably good, even those folks would eventually watch it.

[goku the krump dancer]

Fans get their jimmies ruffled over power levels and story beats, so you can only imagine how heated things can get when you start asking the harder questions that include sensitive topics such as this.

If anything I'm more surprised that it took this long before someone got the eventual Ban/Timeout.

[JulieYBM]

It's really easy to not hate women.

I'd love to see the dichotomy of Caulifla and Kale explored further. They're lile two sides of a coin, I feel.

[KBABZ]

And with my previous question, I wasn't saying to replace the entire male cast with all women, but to focus in on 2 or 3 female protagonists and some female villains as well. The goal being to find a better balance and tell new stories. I think it can be done well, but admittedly, I'm sure it would alienate a sizeable portion of the fan-base, at least initially. If it's undeniably good, even those folks would eventually watch it.

I think it can be done well too, but there's some people who'd just avoid it entirely and complain about how Dragon Ball has become unwatchable. If you HATE something that much, you'll avoid it no matter how good people say it is and spend most of your time complaining about it.

First Dragon Ball would need to shake up the cast with meaningful new cast shakeups though. Beerus and Whis are fine but their jobs require them to not get involved so they barely count.

I’m starting to believe that I made a terrible mistake when making this thread.

I don't think so. It's a hot-button topic but it's important to discuss Dragon Ball's more awkward issues every once in a while. Plus they weed out the assholes who think that no there's nothing wrong with Dragon Ball at all keep going at it RoshI!

I'd love to see the dichotomy of Caulifla and Kale explored further. They're lile two sides of a coin, I feel.

They're the two more interesting characters Super's introduced IMO, which is why it's a shame they seem to be relegated to being side-characters rather than proper additions to the main cast. Them being Saiyans means they can hold their own in a modern Dragon Ball fight, too.

[Yuli Ban]

I’m starting to believe that I made a terrible mistake when making this thread.

I almost felt that way about the question I asked and the chaos that immediately ensued. I think it's a great topic though, especially since its spawned a lot of other related side-topics. It's something worth thinking about.

And with my previous question, I wasn't saying to replace the entire male cast with all women, but to focus in on 2 or 3 female protagonists and some female villains as well. The goal being to find a better balance and tell new stories. I think it can be done well, but admittedly, I'm sure it would alienate a sizeable portion of the fan-base, at least initially. If it's undeniably good, even those folks would eventually watch it.

And here all I wanted was this:

[Soppa Saia People]

just to tie in stuff between trans topics, shounen and misogyny, i've always wondered why ranma 1/2 demographic is considered shounen when, more girls read it then boys and rumiko takahashi has said she intended it to be more so for girls. like i know it ran in a shounen magazine but at that point, idk.

^also Yuli_Ban those rock, i love them.

[Adamant]

like i know it ran in a shounen magazine but at that point, idk.

"Why is this comic than ran in a shonen magazine considered a comic that ran in a shonen magazine?"

That's LITERALLY what the word means. These are not fan invented labels, they specify the type of magazine that published the manga.

[JulieYBM]

like i know it ran in a shounen magazine but at that point, idk.

"Why is this comic than ran in a shonen magazine considered a comic that ran in a shonen magazine?"

That's LITERALLY what the word means. These are not fan invented labels, they specify the type of magazine that published the manga.

A comic more popular with girls and aimed at girls in a magazine for boys sounds like a case of just not being able to find a home.

Nevertheless, still a good chance for boys to learn from a female author.

[Adamant]

like i know it ran in a shounen magazine but at that point, idk.

"Why is this comic than ran in a shonen magazine considered a comic that ran in a shonen magazine?"

That's LITERALLY what the word means. These are not fan invented labels, they specify the type of magazine that published the manga.

A comic more popular with girls and aimed at girls in a magazine for boys sounds like a case of just not being able to find a home.

Assuming it's true (I've never heard this before), it's presumably more a matter of a periphery demographic ending up bigger than anticipated. When did it happen that more girls read it? Did the editor take this into account and alter the series to appeal more to girls to hopefully increase profit even further once this was discovered? How MANY more girls read the series? - girls read shonen magazines more than boy read shojo magazines, so as long as it still appeals to boys it's something you want in the type of magazines they'll actually buy and see it in.

It's not unheard of for shonen manga with big female fanbases to get shojo spinoffs either.

[WittyUsername]

I’m starting to believe that I made a terrible mistake when making this thread.

I almost felt that way about the question I asked and the chaos that immediately ensued. I think it's a great topic though, especially since its spawned a lot of other related side-topics. It's something worth thinking about.

And with my previous question, I wasn't saying to replace the entire male cast with all women, but to focus in on 2 or 3 female protagonists and some female villains as well. The goal being to find a better balance and tell new stories. I think it can be done well, but admittedly, I'm sure it would alienate a sizeable portion of the fan-base, at least initially. If it's undeniably good, even those folks would eventually watch it.

I guess the reason I said that is because I basically only made this thread so a previous thread wouldn’t get derailed, and I wasn’t expecting this one to go on long enough to the point where things would get ugly. This isn’t even really a topic I’m passionate about. I myself generally don’t have much of an opinion on female representation in Dragon Ball. I always thought it was dumb how Resurrection ‘F’ left #18 out of the fighting, but beyond that, it’s never been a topic I’ve put much thought into. I don’t really consider myself a feminist or a social activist in general.

[JulieYBM]

Media production is a very political industry so I think it's coming to the table too short to ignore those aspects, especially because they do inevitably affect the media we consume. We don't just get a misogynistic view of women in Dragon Ball, we also get a corrupt view of men. There is very little in the way of depicting the full shades of life as a man.

Dragon Ball is a very shallow series but to pull off being shallow one must know how to swim, too.

[Soppa Saia People]

"Why is this comic than ran in a shonen magazine considered a comic that ran in a shonen magazine?"

That's LITERALLY what the word means. These are not fan invented labels, they specify the type of magazine that published the manga.

yeah i know. it's just interesting given what takahashi has said and who it was popular with, i was curious why it was ran in a shounen magazine. the whole thing as a whole feels a little arbitrary, but most media genres and demographics are.

but seriously stop responding too my posts in the like most faux passive aggressive way, this is like the 3rd time you've done this. it's kinda shitty and really unnecessary.