GT and misogyny

[KBABZ]

There's something worse than the deer scene in GT, Doll Taki removes Pan's t-shirt to take a look at her breasts and he's pretty much drooling over her while doing it, she was a doll at the time but the implications were still there. It's censored in certain dubs.

It gets even worse when you think that Doll Taki seems to be gay or at least notoriusly effeminate, reinforcing the gay = perv crap.

Yeah Doll Taki is just so INCREDIBLY problematic, yet again Toei going off their damn rocker.

[Dr. Casey]

A woman hits her natural physical and most fertile peak any wear between 20-25, after that her looks naturally start to decline unless she puts in the work to keep them up I.E. Working out, skin care routines etc. The thing is.. women age differently than men in that Pregnancies becomes more "High Risk" once a woman hits 36 and up. It's not to say that she cant have babies but her health will be in serious jeopardy, especially if she plans to have multiple. That's why its always advocated that women try to settle down sooner so that way they can get babies out of the way and continue to build their life from there. Obviously the way society is set up now a days, it doesn't happen that way all that often anymore but its still ideal from a biology standpoint. Guys have the privilege to still plant seeds well into their 40s,50s and even 60s, so the clock doesn't tick for us nearly as quickly.

36+ is a reasonable age to say pregnancies become more risky (though even at 40 the risk of birth defects is only around 1 percent; the odds are so low at younger ages that even a dramatic jump upwards results in a pretty low number), but age of course has to do with more than just reproductive stuff. You also measure youth by things like cognitive ability (dementia doesn't become common until the 80s; 5 percent in the 75-79 range, 14 percent in the 80-84, 31 in the 85-89), attractiveness (the 40s are probably the last decade where people are really 'hot,' rare exceptions like Sean Connery aside, though you can look good in a more platonic way for decades thereafter), and physical health (even if most people peak in athleticism during their 20s and 30s, you can still be healthy and fit for a very long time thereafter).

A lot of this comes down to a glass half-full vs. half-empty mentality. Will you be as hot in your late 40s as your early 20s? Probably not, but you're still young enough to be genuinely attractive. Will you be in as good of health in every possible way at 70 as you were at 20? Probably not, but you can still be a physically fit badass and outperform sedentary college kids on almost every front.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

A woman hits her natural physical and most fertile peak any wear between 20-25, after that her looks naturally start to decline unless she puts in the work to keep them up I.E. Working out, skin care routines etc. The thing is.. women age differently than men in that Pregnancies becomes more "High Risk" once a woman hits 36 and up. It's not to say that she cant have babies but her health will be in serious jeopardy, especially if she plans to have multiple. That's why its always advocated that women try to settle down sooner so that way they can get babies out of the way and continue to build their life from there. Obviously the way society is set up now a days, it doesn't happen that way all that often anymore but its still ideal from a biology standpoint. Guys have the privilege to still plant seeds well into their 40s,50s and even 60s, so the clock doesn't tick for us nearly as quickly.

Why do all your posts on women read like a stereotype?

[Soppa Saia People]

yeah i didn't wanna say anything but that is a incrediblely weird, creepy and gross post. like omg.

[KBABZ]

A woman hits her natural physical and most fertile peak any wear between 20-25, after that her looks naturally start to decline unless she puts in the work to keep them up I.E. Working out, skin care routines etc. The thing is.. women age differently than men in that Pregnancies becomes more "High Risk" once a woman hits 36 and up. It's not to say that she cant have babies but her health will be in serious jeopardy, especially if she plans to have multiple. That's why its always advocated that women try to settle down sooner so that way they can get babies out of the way and continue to build their life from there. Obviously the way society is set up now a days, it doesn't happen that way all that often anymore but its still ideal from a biology standpoint. Guys have the privilege to still plant seeds well into their 40s,50s and even 60s, so the clock doesn't tick for us nearly as quickly.

36+ is a reasonable age to say pregnancies become more risky (though even at 40 the risk of birth defects is only around 1 percent; the odds are so low at younger ages that even a dramatic jump upwards results in a pretty low number), but age of course has to do with more than just reproductive stuff. You also measure youth by things like cognitive decline (dementia doesn't become common until the later 80s; 5 percent in the 75-79 range, 14 percent in the 80-84, 31 in the 85-89), attractiveness (the 40s are probably the last decade where people are really 'hot,' rare exceptions like Sean Connery aside, though you can look good in a more platonic way for decades thereafter), and physical health (even if most people peak in athleticism during their 20s and 30s, you can still be healthy and fit for a very long time thereafter).

A lot of this comes down to a glass half-full vs. half-empty mentality. Will you be as hot in your late 40s as your early 20s? Probably not, but you're still young enough to be genuinely attractive. Will you be in as good of health in every possible way at 70 as you were at 20? Probably not, but you can still be a physically fit badass and outperform sedentary college kids on almost every front.

I'm not entirely sure how this pertains to Dragon Ball but I always liked how Bulma was able to carry and dress herself in total confidence even as she got older, and particularly aged in GT.

In fact, as far as I'm aware, Bulma is one of the only character in the series who visibly ages on a more granular level; you can tell via her fashion that she's getting older through the 22nd TB, 23rd TB, Saiyan, Namek, Android and Buu arcs, before hitting her endpoints in EoZ and GT. The only other character that I can think of who does is Gohan as he grows up through the Saiyan, Namek and Android Arcs. Most other characters like Goku and Krillin go through specific jumps and then retain their looks for huge stretches of time. It's cool that Toriyama put so much thought into her progression over the course of the series through how she dresses and carries herself.

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

yeah i didn't wanna say anything but that is a incrediblely weird, creepy and gross post. like omg.

It certainly is and the vibe he's been giving across his posts in this thread is putting up some red flags for me.

[Dr. Casey]

@KBABZ It doesn't pertain to Dragon Ball at all, sorry. I just have a lot of opinions on age stuff and have since I was 18 (which started with me getting buttmad over people in their 50s being called old since my dad was 56. And now at 72 he's... not really any different from how he was back then).

But yeah, good representation of aged people is always appreciated. I recently played Tokyo Xanadu and really liked how the most powerful character in the story, who manhandles absolutely everyone who ever fights him, is a 70 year old man (just a regular martial artist, no Wuxia stuff here).

And good points about Bulma that I'd never thought of. Bulma does indeed go through much more granular changes, whereas everyone else is unaging until Buu if not the 28th Budokai.

[JulieYBM]

My mom had me when she was thirty-six and the only defect to come out of that was me being a bitch in some people's eyes.

A woman hits her natural physical and most fertile peak any wear between 20-25, after that her looks naturally start to decline unless she puts in the work to keep them up I.E. Working out, skin care routines etc. The thing is.. women age differently than men in that Pregnancies becomes more "High Risk" once a woman hits 36 and up. It's not to say that she cant have babies but her health will be in serious jeopardy, especially if she plans to have multiple. That's why its always advocated that women try to settle down sooner so that way they can get babies out of the way and continue to build their life from there. Obviously the way society is set up now a days, it doesn't happen that way all that often anymore but its still ideal from a biology standpoint. Guys have the privilege to still plant seeds well into their 40s,50s and even 60s, so the clock doesn't tick for us nearly as quickly.

Uh...

That said I never understood the "Lolicon" appeal in anime/manga and not entirely sure who it's supposed to appeal too, I always kinda raised an eyebrow when I saw huge Double D boobs bouncing around on what looks like a 10 year old girl. GT has a scene where Pan gets nipped by a Deer thinking she's its mother looking for milk and that seen in particular always stuck out to me as kinda random given what's supposed to be Pan's age, which is 9. I could by past it if she was 16 like Bulma because then at the very least it could sorta hint at things like coming of age and woman hood etc, but its just a one off thing.

Well, obviously it appeals to lolicons. The Lolicon Boom started as a result of men abandoning boys' culture in favor of girls' culture (reading comics produced for girls and then creating their own comics produced for girls but also their own tastes as grown men) and combing the art styles of Disney productions with Tezuka Osamu and shoujo comics artists. The appeal for lolicon lies in the lack of reality to these characters, if we're to believe Beautiful Fighting Girl (Saitou Tamaki) and other testimonials as we see collected in the multiple writings of Patrick W. Galbraith. The 1980s was where Otaku sub-culture was beginning to take a solid form and influencing comics and animation, so it makes sense that even writers of mainstream animation like Dragon Ball would begin to pick up on these things. Obviously the Dol Taki (a name based on the term 'Otaku') character was introduced a few years after the Miyazaki Tsutomu case. One might say Miyazaki Tsutomu is the model for Dol Taki. Christ, now that I've just been reminded of his existence I'm going to go throw up.

[goku the krump dancer]

JulieYBM, UltraInstinctRorikon & SoppSaiaPeople Nothing about my post was wrong or degrading but if it made you a little uncomfortable then, tough! that's on you not me. I was piggy backing off Dr.Casey's post about women's "Prime Years".

[Dr. Casey]

My post was about people in general rather than just women (since both age in facial attractiveness, physical health, and cognitive ability at similar rates), but that might have been unclear since I posted right after waking up.

[JulieYBM]

That's an extremely bold posture for a man who has been rebuked by two women and an enby who are uncomfortable with the weirdly bio-essentialist posture he has taken.

EDIT: Yeah, I didn't read my post before sending it the first time to catch the weird typos.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I cant make any sense out of Julie's post. So I will just condemn Krump.

EDIT:Except the part where he condemns Lolicon. Fuck that shit.

[goku the krump dancer]

My post was about people in general rather than just women (since both age in facial attractiveness, physical health, and cognitive ability at similar rates), but that might have been unclear since I posted right after waking up.

Yeah I saw your other post, I pretty much agree with most of it. There are plenty of men and women who look great in their 30s,40s and even 50s than they did in their teens and 20s because they decided to start taking better care of themselves. I agree with KBAZ as well about how Bulma aged seemingly the most gracefully, she takes a lot of pride in her appearance, especially considering her would be wish in DBS-Broly. Speaking of Super I do wish Kale, Caulifla and Cabba were drawn in a way where it was easier to gauge their ages. This isn't entirely on topic though so we can end it here

There's something worse than the deer scene in GT, Doll Taki removes Pan's t-shirt to take a look at her breasts and he's pretty much drooling over her while doing it, she was a doll at the time but the implications were still there. It's censored in certain dubs.

It gets even worse when you think that Doll Taki seems to be gay or at least notoriusly effeminate, reinforcing the gay = perv crap.

Yeah I can admit that's a little much, it just adds on to the notion that they were writing Pan to be in somewhat similar situations as Bulma in the earlier parts of the series yet forgetting that Pan is MUCH younger.

@JulieYBM

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[JulieYBM]

Lolz I'm running errands and wrote that post while exiting an REI. Anyway, tldr: mansplaining bad.

[Soppa Saia People]

JulieYBM, UltraInstinctRorikon & SoppSaiaPeople Nothing about my post was wrong or degrading but if it made you a little uncomfortable then, tough! that's on you not me. I was piggy backing off Dr.Casey's post about women's "Prime Years".

it's almost comically degrading to women and pretty much treats them like animals. it's a insanely gross way to look at anyone, it genuinely looks like a parody of a jordan peterson essay or whatever. who thinks of people in this way ?

[UltraInstinctRorikon]

JulieYBM, UltraInstinctRorikon & SoppSaiaPeople Nothing about my post was wrong or degrading but if it made you a little uncomfortable then, tough! that's on you not me. I was piggy backing off Dr.Casey's post about women's "Prime Years".

It most certainly is on you. This isn't thecoli.

[goku the krump dancer]

How is it degrading to say that women enter high risk pregnancy zone at age 36? It’s the same as saying a mans balls dry up drastically into middle age.. both groups of people are able to produce children but the chances of something going wrong are a lot higher the older you get. How in the world is that degrading or berating in anyway? It might not sound pretty but the truth often doesn’t.

[MasenkoHA]

How is it degrading to say that women enter high risk pregnancy zone at age 36? It’s the same as saying a mans balls dry up drastically into middle age.. both groups of people are able to produce children but the chances of something going wrong are a lot higher the older you get. How in the world is that degrading or berating in anyway? It might not sound pretty but the truth often doesn’t.

“Women start to look bad after 25 unless they put in the extra work also women should have kids as soon as possible “


Like, do you not see the problem at all with statements like this?

[goku the krump dancer]

Because having children when there's less risk involved is bad?

Listen I'm all for women having the choice to do what they want, the ability to choose is a privilege that everyone should have BUT at same time there has to be an understanding that there're pros and cons for everything, so as long as folks can be at peace with what comes with the choices they make instead of complaining about how they cant have their cake and eat it too, then hey I can respect that.

[JulieYBM]

All those men and enbies getting pregnant out here shaking their heads at this shit, too.