GT and misogyny

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WittyUsername
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GT and misogyny

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:36 pm

I decided to make this thread because of a certain ongoing discussion in the thread about the ending of GT. This way, the other thread doesn’t have to get diluted with a topic that’s probably meaty enough to warrant its own thread anyway.

Edit: At this point, we might as well just consider this to be a thread about misogyny in Dragon Ball as a whole.
Last edited by WittyUsername on Sun Mar 07, 2021 4:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:12 pm

Yeah, that's my fault. I shitpost way too much. 😭

Anyway, Dragon Ball GT had a shiny new female lead who was a fighter and she...was just relegated to the role of being the damsel in distress. This sucks major balls and is a bad example for kids. :|
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Planetnamek » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:34 pm

Plus given how in the 90s shows with strong female characters were getting more popular, Pan definitely felt like an outdated archetype.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:47 pm

Planetnamek wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:34 pm
Plus given how in the 90s shows with strong female characters were getting more popular, Pan definitely felt like an outdated archetype.
Morishita being a product of the 1970s anime scene really goes to show how fucked things were. I'm glad he has retired.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JewyB » Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:57 am

JulieYBM wrote:
Mon Feb 22, 2021 11:12 pm
Yeah, that's my fault. I shitpost way too much. 😭
As a shitposter, and on behalf of all shitposters, please don't claim to be one of us.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by nickzambuto » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:40 am

Even though Pan didn't end up very strong she clearly wasn't useless. I still ended up liking the character very much.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:55 am

She's cute and her personality was great. Let her be more powerful and get Super Saiyan and it'd solve all my issues.

That said Pan is one of my favorites still. I love her style of fashion.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Planetnamek » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:39 am

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:55 am
She's cute and her personality was great. Let her be more powerful and get Super Saiyan and it'd solve all my issues.

That said Pan is one of my favorites still. I love her style of fashion.
I don't dislike her by any means, I just feel like she didn't live up to her full potential.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:07 am

Planetnamek wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:39 am
UltraInstinctRorikon wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:55 am
She's cute and her personality was great. Let her be more powerful and get Super Saiyan and it'd solve all my issues.

That said Pan is one of my favorites still. I love her style of fashion.
I don't dislike her by any means, I just feel like she didn't live up to her full potential.
I think if they axed Goku and it was just her and trunks and giru doing things it'd be a way better show.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by PurestEvil » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:45 am

Pan is not the first female character to be left in the dust. Chi Chi and Videl come to mind.
Might as well name the thread "DB misogyny".
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Jord » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:51 am

She may not have the same power as the rest of the cast but she's still a strong female personality and I like how she complements Goku. While Goku has the brawn and fighting instinct, she can be the voice of reason and use her brain power and emotion. She had very strong performances with her helping in beating lord Luud and trigger SSJ4. She really felt like part of the team.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:56 am

PurestEvil wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 3:45 am
Pan is not the first female character to be left in the dust. Chi Chi and Videl come to mind.
Might as well name the thread "DB misogyny".
Yeah, definitely! It really sucks seeing the series getting a pass for sidelining women under the guise of Toriyama not knowing what he's doing but then give him a pass for poorly writing men.

I definitely wish the women were more involved in the plot and driving it forward. The girls have such bright base personalities to work with that it's a real shame to see them disengaged for such large swathes of productions.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by ABED » Tue Feb 23, 2021 5:47 am

Chichi and Videl never struck me as fighters who could contribute much to the overall story beyond what they ultimately did. 18 and Pan however...
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by KBABZ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 6:30 am

I feel in regards to GT Pan fell victim to practically everyone else by the time Baby showed up, which is that Goku and Vegeta are really the only relevant characters. Trunks, Goten and Gohan go to waste, and so does Uub, the MALE EoZ prodigy.

But it is also true that the Black Star storyline didn't go out of its way for Pan either. She's very much the adventurous complainer who's way in over her head, and nobody, in-universe or out, really makes an attempt to have her fight and train to the capabilities of her forebears when they were the focus, which is truly bizarre given that Pan was basically a female kid Goku in EoZ with a really keen interest in fighting. Bra also falls into this to a certain extent, in GT she's Just Another Tertiary Character along the lines of Yamcha and Tien.

And as someone pointed out earlier, Dragon Ball overall has a problem with not utilizing or introducing female character well pretty much since the end of the Pirate Cave when Bulma stopped contributing, something that I'm sure has been discussed up and down by this point. So it's ultimately not surprising that GT would continue this trend, and why it was so refreshing to see Caulifla and Kale in Super.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:37 am

I'd argue Pan was still treated better than Gohan, Goten, Uub, and even Trunks. In the grand scheme of things she gets way more screen time, floors Rildo, overpowers Gero, and helps kill a Shadow Dragon.

I think the real issue with GT is its treatment of anyone who isn't Goku. Every time we think someone else is going to get their moment, it just doesn't happen. Goten and Trunks offer to fuse against Baby, but Goku says no. Gohan offers to help Goku fight the Shadow Dragons, but Goku says no.

Also 18 helps Goku take down Super 17, which is more than what can be said for any of the male Saiyans.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:13 am

Pan is significant in the Shadow Dragons arc, she's back to being Goku's adventuring partner for most of it. It was probably their attempt to redeem her character, unfortunately they didn't learn from their mistakes and slapped her back into the useless kid sidekick/hostage role. Considering that the Shadow Dragons arc is more action-oriented, this would've been a good opportunity to give her a worthwhile power-up.

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:25 am

I also don’t think GT should be singled out. It’s not really any more sexist than Dragon Ball or Z.

Dragon Ball Super is probably the most progressive in that regard and even then we had 18 staying home to take care of Marron so Kuririn can fight Freeza despite 18 still being significantly stronger and not having Freeza related PTSD. As well as Videl being turned into a non-threatening homemaker

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:38 am

I wasn't singling out GT at first but I do think it's worth highlighting that Pan is depicted as a martial artist and central protagonist. Technically Trunks is too...but Trunks isn't a woman nor does his exclusion harm 'male representation' because men are in no short supply of representation. Pan consistently being relegated to that powerless position despite her spotlight position really is a drag, especially when one learns the direct ideology of the series' producer straight from the horse's mouth.
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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Grimlock » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:44 am

This also affects the Saiyans (a race from another planet where theoretically and hopefully things could be different) and their "newly found good Saiyans", more specifically, I'm talking about Gine.

Though initially supposed to be a race of warriors, we now face a reality where there are those who, for some reason, simply "aren't good at fighting" and she specifically has to take care of food and stay home, when she could've been just as fearless and strong warrior as her partner. I know someone has to deal with that and such, but does it really need to be Goku's mother of all characters?

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Re: GT and misogyny

Post by Matches Malone » Tue Feb 23, 2021 11:46 am

The way Pan was written was by no means exclusive to her, as even Vegeta who received Ssj4 was written terribly. The writers were unfortunately too afraid of letting anyone besides Goku do the slightest thing.

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