Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

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Trachta10
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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Trachta10 » Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:32 pm

the blue is a little different in this cel

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Lightningexpose » Sat Mar 20, 2021 7:37 am

Trachta10 wrote: Fri Mar 19, 2021 11:32 pm the blue is a little different in this cel
they were clearly going for a more kai look which does have more cyan-y blues, and isn't as bright as these promo shots (which are tampered with anyway when digitized).

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:45 pm

Lightningexpose wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:49 am Have you never seen those 4K-6K promo shot slides?
Imagine seeing those and still unironically saying "bro its not a ghibli movie, no extra detail ever existed"
Whoa. That's beautiful! I wonder, tho... Is it really 16mm? I would think that it's possibly from high quality 32mm film for promotional purposes.
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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by derpytacos » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:18 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:45 pm
Whoa. That's beautiful! I wonder, tho... Is it really 16mm? I would think that it's possibly from high quality 32mm film for promotional purposes.
He has posted proof of it being 16mm on his twitter hasn't he? Plus its 35mm that comes after 16mm not 32mm.

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:33 pm

linkdude20002001 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:45 pm
Lightningexpose wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:49 am Have you never seen those 4K-6K promo shot slides?
Imagine seeing those and still unironically saying "bro its not a ghibli movie, no extra detail ever existed"
Whoa. That's beautiful! I wonder, tho... Is it really 16mm? I would think that it's possibly from high quality 32mm film for promotional purposes.
It's not film at all, it's a Cel scan.
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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Lightningexpose » Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:41 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:33 pm
linkdude20002001 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:45 pm
Lightningexpose wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:49 am Have you never seen those 4K-6K promo shot slides?
Imagine seeing those and still unironically saying "bro its not a ghibli movie, no extra detail ever existed"
Whoa. That's beautiful! I wonder, tho... Is it really 16mm? I would think that it's possibly from high quality 32mm film for promotional purposes.
It's not film at all, it's a Cel scan.
Nah these actually were shot to film. Kodak EPY film to be precise which is more for individual slides/photography and can come in 60mm+ but also 35mm--not sure what was used.

@linkdude20002001 so no these aren't 16mm. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is detail that hasn't been captured, making waffe's point "it's not a ghibli movie, there is no more detail to see" ridiculous

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by linkdude20002001 » Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:47 pm

derpytacos wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:18 pm He has posted proof of it being 16mm on his twitter hasn't he? Plus its 35mm that comes after 16mm not 32mm.
Oh... Haha, yeah, I thot 32 seemed off, but nothing else seemed right at the time. And, I dunno, since I haven't been to his Twitter.

jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:33 pm It's not film at all, it's a Cel scan.
It looks like it has film grain, tho. To me anyway. It just looks like some really nice quality 35mm film, that has very fine grain. Which is what I assume is what Toei would use for getting promotional shots...or something? I don't really know. The more I think about it, the less it makes sense to me. It's all just guesses on what Toei might have done. But regardless, it looks like film to me.

Lightningexpose wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:41 pm Nah these actually were shot to film. Kodak EPY film to be precise which is more for individual slides/photography and can come in 60mm+ but also 35mm--not sure what was used.

@linkdude20002001 so no these aren't 16mm. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is detail that hasn't been captured, making waffe's point "it's not a ghibli movie, there is no more detail to see" ridiculous
Ah, okay. That makes sense. That's what I was thinking. Tho, I still don't know about the ins and outs of this stuff. I'd love to know more about Toei's process in all this, and why it's done. I bet there are some documentaries out there...in Japanese.
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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Trachta10 » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:04 pm

Lightningexpose wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:41 pm
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:33 pm
linkdude20002001 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 4:45 pm

Whoa. That's beautiful! I wonder, tho... Is it really 16mm? I would think that it's possibly from high quality 32mm film for promotional purposes.
It's not film at all, it's a Cel scan.
Nah these actually were shot to film. Kodak EPY film to be precise which is more for individual slides/photography and can come in 60mm+ but also 35mm--not sure what was used.

@linkdude20002001 so no these aren't 16mm. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is detail that hasn't been captured, making waffe's point "it's not a ghibli movie, there is no more detail to see" ridiculous
How do you know is not a cel scan??

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Ajay » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:26 pm

Trachta10 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:04 pm
Lightningexpose wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:41 pm
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:33 pm It's not film at all, it's a Cel scan.
Nah these actually were shot to film. Kodak EPY film to be precise which is more for individual slides/photography and can come in 60mm+ but also 35mm--not sure what was used.

@linkdude20002001 so no these aren't 16mm. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is detail that hasn't been captured, making waffe's point "it's not a ghibli movie, there is no more detail to see" ridiculous
How do you know is not a cel scan??
Cels don't have film grain.
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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Lightningexpose » Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:53 pm

Trachta10 wrote: Tue Mar 23, 2021 6:04 pm
Lightningexpose wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 6:41 pm
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Mar 20, 2021 5:33 pm It's not film at all, it's a Cel scan.
Nah these actually were shot to film. Kodak EPY film to be precise which is more for individual slides/photography and can come in 60mm+ but also 35mm--not sure what was used.

@linkdude20002001 so no these aren't 16mm. I'm just pointing out the fact that there is detail that hasn't been captured, making waffe's point "it's not a ghibli movie, there is no more detail to see" ridiculous
How do you know is not a cel scan??
Because I've seen these promo slides with the overscan of the film edges. That's how I know the film stock used. And as Ajay said, there's film grain. Scanner noise is a lot uglier

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Akirale Torimaki » Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:40 am

Lightningexpose wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:09 pm This is what Dragon Ball would look like with a 4K remaster, for those who think 16mm isn't worth 4K.

Image

DBox: Image

Glad to see Toei are doing it right finally.
I think I’ve seen this before and I’m not 100% sure that’s from Toei...
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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by sangofe » Thu Mar 25, 2021 1:35 pm

Akirale Torimaki wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:40 am
Lightningexpose wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 12:09 pm This is what Dragon Ball would look like with a 4K remaster, for those who think 16mm isn't worth 4K.

Image

DBox: Image

Glad to see Toei are doing it right finally.
I think I’ve seen this before and I’m not 100% sure that’s from Toei...
I'm 100% sure it's not.

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Spadexxione » Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:44 pm

Oh man I would love a release in this quality

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Vorige Waffe » Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:48 pm

Lightningexpose wrote: Tue Mar 16, 2021 11:49 am
Vorige Waffe wrote: Wed Mar 10, 2021 3:46 pm
Eh your arguments are all over the place. I forgot to mention it previously, but you said something like "what's worse is this isn't even the negatives, that'd be sharper" as if you were contradicting our argument just to put a downer on people's excitement for this transfer...but all what you say there does is consolidate that 16mm would look good in 4K.

As for Justin Sevakis, eh I also think you're wrong there. Sevakis has called out other industry people, I remember him publicly criticising AnimEigo's desire to DNR one of their upcoming Blu-rays. For 30A, he wasn't even criticising Funimation one bit to be "pulling punches"--he was simply spouting wrong facts... One thing about Sevakis is, he's the kinda guy that likes to contradict internet fanboys (i do too :) ) a lot. He saw fanboys hating on funimation so his immediate thought was likely "these fanboys don't know as much as they think they do" and proceeded to attempt contradicting the fanboy consensus with wrong facts like "these film elements wouldn't look good on any blu-ray". We knew that was 100% wrong already since level sets were good, but now the femboyfilm transfers prove him even more wrong. He, but more so other Discotek guys, have even said Qtec do good stuff, which is again just another attempt to contradict the fanboy consensus that Qtec are shit, under the pretence that they "work in the industry" and so know more than the fanboys.

Also, you're wrong about the whole "bro this aint muh high budget high-detail ghibli movie, its muh low budget low-detail tv anime"...there is PLENTY of detail on the cels and background art that the film can't even begin to capture fully. You understand that what the film captured were physical objects in the real world, right? There's an infinite amount of detail...from the fine textures on BGs caused by paint brushes to the roughness of the xerox lines, to the roughness of shading edges...

Have you never seen those 4K-6K promo shot slides?
Imagine seeing those and still unironically saying "bro its not a ghibli movie, no extra detail ever existed"
Pen strokes and sheen from the cels isn't detail, just like seeing seems on the bald cap of an actor in a live action movie isn't "detail". It's like getting excited at seeing how a magician *really* pulls off their tricks at the expense of letting the illusion speak for itself. And in regards to Sevakis, read my post again about professionals critiquing other competitor's work.

The reason I'm putting a downer on this is for people to be realistic about what they can expect. And also not to froth at the mouth so publicly that this entire project and preservation attempt is shunted. This community and many others has real problem with things like that.

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by derpytacos » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:57 am

Vorige Waffe wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:48 pm

The reason I'm putting a downer on this is for people to be realistic about what they can expect.
No, its not. Stop the lies and just admit your pewcious widdle ego can't handle being proven wrong. You came in here spouting blatantly untrue things because you didnt want to take the time to educate yourself. Now that you've been outed you are in damage control mode. pathetic.

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Vorige Waffe » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:00 pm

derpytacos wrote: Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:57 am
Vorige Waffe wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:48 pm

The reason I'm putting a downer on this is for people to be realistic about what they can expect.
No, its not. Stop the lies and just admit your pewcious widdle ego can't handle being proven wrong. You came in here spouting blatantly untrue things because you didnt want to take the time to educate yourself. Now that you've been outed you are in damage control mode. pathetic.
Please educate yourself on being less of a jerk. Here's a start: name-calling is not some sort of "gotcha" moment, or argument.

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Re: Dragon Ball 4K Remaster (16mm)

Post by Lightningexpose » Fri May 07, 2021 8:35 am

Vorige Waffe wrote: Wed Apr 07, 2021 3:48 pm The reason I'm putting a downer on this is for people to be realistic about what they can expect. And also not to froth at the mouth so publicly that this entire project and preservation attempt is shunted. This community and many others has real problem with things like that.
I mean...when it comes to quality, everybody here is seeing the same thing you are? You're not a part of the group doing it to have any extra visual access to anything more than everybody here. So, what expectations? Everybody's seen the quality here and they love it--there are no expectations of the quality here.

And I'm not sure what authority you'd have to be putting a downer on people's judgment of the quality here, given every single thing you had ascertained about funi's home release quality of episode 1 was incorrect ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Pen strokes and sheen from the cels isn't detail, just like seeing seems on the bald cap of an actor in a live action movie isn't "detail". It's like getting excited at seeing how a magician *really* pulls off their tricks at the expense of letting the illusion speak for itself.
And what on earth are you on about? You're comparing line detail to magic tricks? Bro, there's a reason why DBS Broly and a bunch of modern digital anime try to emulate those rough cel lines...because it's a key artistic feature of the cel animation medium...so of course that is detail and viewers should be seeing more of it as resolution goes up.

Your analogy to "seems on the bald cap" is also dumb because no, seeing more texture of animation cels and background paintings is analogous to seeing more skin/hair texture and environment texture on things like buildings and trees in live action. ...Bruh.

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