Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:56 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 12:12 pm The problem with the idea of "institutional" racism is, for one, these days, it has a very murky and loose definition. It can mean racist policies (which is illegal). Or it can mean the more murky and rather unfalsifiable things you describe (all the little behaviors and micro-aggressions) which is difficult to prove, and often conflated with issues that have nothing to do with race. Basically, you can accuse any society of being institutionally racist regardless of what it really is. And you can accuse anyone of having "little behaviors and micro-aggressions" regardless of what they do. Everybody is guilty. And because the accusations are unfalsifiable, everybody is guilty always until the end of time.
There's nothing "murky" about systemic racism if one has enough familiarity with the concept. You don't have to be able to identify the reasoning behind every single instance of casual racism in order to prove it. The overwhelming amount of historical evidence that exists already provides more than enough proof.

And again, when dealing with racism or any other form of systemic oppression, the intentions or reasons behind an individual's actions are not nearly as important as the action itself.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Mon Mar 22, 2021 7:49 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Mon Mar 22, 2021 6:56 pm
You don't have to be able to identify the reasoning behind every single instance of casual racism in order to prove it.
That's not what I said. I said being able to identify the reasoning behind "micro-aggression".

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Majin Buu » Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:32 pm

Just wanna throw this into the discussion (and take it back to Asian hate):

The idea of Asians being the "model minority" is part of this issue. It's a convenient way to mask/ignore anti-Asian racism by creating the false impression that they're "doing things right" (IE behaving in a way that white society approves of) so they don't face racism or have issues that stem from racism; which is stupid if you know anything about this country's history (though sadly, plenty of Americans know jack about American history). For instance, how often did anti-Asian racism get mainstream attention prior to these shootings and the pandemic? Not often as far as I know, and I'm betting this is part of the reason.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Planetnamek » Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:32 pm Just wanna throw this into the discussion (and take it back to Asian hate):

The idea of Asians being the "model minority" is part of this issue. It's a convenient way to mask/ignore anti-Asian racism by creating the false impression that they're "doing things right" (IE behaving in a way that white society approves of) so they don't face racism or have issues that stem from racism; which is stupid if you know anything about this country's history (though sadly, plenty of Americans know jack about American history). For instance, how often did anti-Asian racism get mainstream attention prior to these shootings and the pandemic? Not often as far as I know, and I'm betting this is part of the reason.
I remember in the late 2000s there were two-separate incidents where Asian customers had racist nicknames printed on their receipts, but beyond that I don't remember hearing much in the way of anti-Asian hate getting coverage.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by kemuri07 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:24 pm

The problem with the idea of "institutional" racism is, for one, these days, it has a very murky and loose definition. It can mean racist policies (which is illegal). Or it can mean the more murky and rather unfalsifiable things you describe (all the little behaviors and micro-aggressions) which is difficult to prove, and often conflated with issues that have nothing to do with race. Basically, you can accuse any society of being institutionally racist regardless of what it really is. And you can accuse anyone of having "little behaviors and micro-aggressions" regardless of what they do. Everybody is guilty. And because the accusations are unfalsifiable, everybody is guilty always until the end of time.
Problem with this is that it ignores the historical context of America: And that is that America was founded by white elites who very much wanted to consolidate power for themselves. The point of structural racism is not to say that "all whites are racist," but to acknowledge that the foundations of this country are inherently problematic and that we are products of that environment. We take things for granted simply because we are taught to believe that "that is the way it is" without ever wondering "why" and ultimately "who does it benefit?". I find that a far more healthy approach to the topic rather than simply accuse people of racism, because it also allows me to look at myself, a black male, and see how I've also carried problematic and toxic ideas about race and gender.
The idea of Asians being the "model minority" is part of this issue. It's a convenient way to mask/ignore anti-Asian racism by creating the false impression that they're "doing things right" (IE behaving in a way that white society approves of) so they don't face racism or have issues that stem from racism; which is stupid if you know anything about this country's history (though sadly, plenty of Americans know jack about American history). For instance, how often did anti-Asian racism get mainstream attention prior to these shootings and the pandemic? Not often as far as I know, and I'm betting this is part of the reason.
Keep in mind that "whiteness," like all race, is a social construct, one that the rich and powerful routinely use to keep people in line. By maintaining a racial hierarchy, not only do you allow yourself to be on top, you also can control other people. Granting races the identity of "white" allows them a seat at the table. The only ask is to "vote how we vote, and hate who we hate". Throughout the years, many races were considered "white." Middle eastern was considered white...even Latino at one point was considered white. Remember the Italians and Irish, who were hated as much as blacks and asians? Now we consider them white. Why? Because they worked hard and proved themselve? Fuck no. They were useful to the powerful because they'll vote in their interest and "hate who they hate." Asians, and specifically Chinese-Amerians, have absolutely been courted by politicians for their conservative ideas. The fact that they tend to side with white people on declaring affirmative action itself as "racist" is an added boon. But Asians are learning now that doesn't mean jackshit. It's the "I voted for the wolf eating people's face party, and I can't believe they ate my face!" syndrome.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by kemuri07 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:25 pm

Planetnamek wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 2:48 pm
Majin Buu wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:32 pm Just wanna throw this into the discussion (and take it back to Asian hate):

The idea of Asians being the "model minority" is part of this issue. It's a convenient way to mask/ignore anti-Asian racism by creating the false impression that they're "doing things right" (IE behaving in a way that white society approves of) so they don't face racism or have issues that stem from racism; which is stupid if you know anything about this country's history (though sadly, plenty of Americans know jack about American history). For instance, how often did anti-Asian racism get mainstream attention prior to these shootings and the pandemic? Not often as far as I know, and I'm betting this is part of the reason.
I remember in the late 2000s there were two-separate incidents where Asian customers had racist nicknames printed on their receipts, but beyond that I don't remember hearing much in the way of anti-Asian hate getting coverage.
Because the late 2000s was when Middle-eastern hate was at its most fiercest. You'll notice a trend: There's always an immigrant to blame for our social issues. It's a broken record at this point.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Mar 26, 2021 3:38 pm

Kemuri and James out here making fire posts. Love the reads and I encourage everyone else to re-read their posts for there is a lot of great content there.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:22 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 12:24 pm And that is that America was founded by white elites who very much wanted to consolidate power for themselves.
That is patently untrue. The Constitution and the separation of powers are all designed to limit a concentration of power. If the Founding Fathers wanted power to themselves, then they would have simply founded another monarchy. America today would just be another place of Royalty ruling over a bunch of peasants. That also goes for the rest of the free world who followed what the United States did. All of these other countries you like to praise, wouldn't be what they are without the United States setting an example. No French Revolution. England would probably still be an absolute monarchy instead of a constitutional monarchy. Japan wouldn't be what it is today either.

And you can talk all you want about how corporations are able to get immense power through money and corruption, and buying politicians. And while that's true, none of them have the power of an absolute monarchy. None of them can come barging through your door, forcing subservience on you, or simply killing you right off the bat because they saw you making unfavorable statements to the government on an internet forum.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:38 pm

Corporations and white elites are a neo-feudal system. They do have absolute power over us. They are the reason I and many others can't get life-saving medical treatment.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:54 pm

Corporations aren't limited to white people. And no, they do not have absolute power over you.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:08 pm

Melee_Sovereign wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:54 pm Corporations aren't limited to white people. And no, they do not have absolute power over you.
White people control the majority of the power in the world.

Corporations are why we don't have universal healthcare. They successfully lobby against it so that poor people (of which they know a majority of marginalized people are a part of) remain depended on them for already limited access and affordability. Private health insurance companies then turn around and deny care or make care impossibly costly. Corporations make it impossible to own a home or drain you dry just to rent a poorly maintained apartment. Combine all these things and people just...die. I need to either work my health away to save up enough money for the life-saving medical procedure I need or just die anyway. It's a trap that I and many others are stuck in, most especially bad for People of Color because they must also suffer from other forms of institutional disadvantage.

Corporations also decided weather we make living wages most of the time, stealing the profits we generate and giving us back much less than we make.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:25 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:08 pm
White people control the majority of the power in the world.
Debatable. China is arguably the second most powerful nation in the world and it has 4 times as many people as the United States. Both China and Japan are within the top 3 nations with the best economy. And China has three corporations that that are in the top 5 in the world by annual revenue, while the United States only has 2 that are in the top 5.

And if you want to talk about government power, China's government has a greater concentration of power among its elites over its people than the United States has over its people, because China is a one-party state.

Corporations are why we don't have universal healthcare. They successfully lobby against it so that poor people (of which they know a majority of marginalized people are a part of) remain depended on them for already limited access and affordability. Private health insurance companies then turn around and deny care or make care impossibly costly. Corporations make it impossible to own a home or drain you dry just to rent a poorly maintained apartment. Combine all these things and people just...die. I need to either work my health away to save up enough money for the life-saving medical procedure I need or just die anyway. It's a trap that I and many others are stuck in, most especially bad for People of Color because they must also suffer from other forms of institutional disadvantage.

Corporations also decided weather we make living wages most of the time, stealing the profits we generate and giving us back much less than we make.
I mean, I agree that it's bad. But it's not absolute power by any stretch. It does not compare to feudalism.
Last edited by Melee_Sovereign on Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:26 pm

I feel like humanity will never reach a greater level in society if we don't remove sexism, racism, etc. Geniocracy would be a right step for humanity, but that would never happen.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:39 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 5:26 pm I feel like humanity will never reach a greater level in society if we don't remove sexism, racism, etc. Geniocracy would be a right step for humanity, but that would never happen.
I would not put all the eggs in utopian ideologies. Sure, Geniocracy would ensure that the leaders are efficient, but they still could be corrupt. Intelligence alone does not inherently make someone altruistic.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Hellspawn28 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:43 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 12:32 pm Just wanna throw this into the discussion (and take it back to Asian hate):

The idea of Asians being the "model minority" is part of this issue. It's a convenient way to mask/ignore anti-Asian racism by creating the false impression that they're "doing things right" (IE behaving in a way that white society approves of) so they don't face racism or have issues that stem from racism; which is stupid if you know anything about this country's history (though sadly, plenty of Americans know jack about American history). For instance, how often did anti-Asian racism get mainstream attention prior to these shootings and the pandemic? Not often as far as I know, and I'm betting this is part of the reason.
Racistism towards Asians (Easter Asians) have always existed forever. However, it has gotten worse since Covid. Trump is able to make people hate Asian people because of Covid similar to how Bush Jr was able to make people hate Muslims because of 9/11. This won't have happened if we had a Democrat in office in 2020. Everytime we have a Republican in office, we have the worse things happen to our country (Bush jr with 9/11 & Iraq and Trump with Covid).
Melee_Sovereign wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 4:54 pm Corporations aren't limited to white people. And no, they do not have absolute power over you.
They do because of white prillvage. White people have the biggest track record of hate and violence in human history. You sound very apologetic towards white people.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:57 pm

Republicans destroy the world and the US. Democrats destroy the world and the US. Just because domestic policy isn't loudly anti-progress under the Democrats it doesn't mean they don't intentionally deflect and obfuscate away from their actions and lack of action all in the service of their donors. Okay, that was a run-on sentence. Basically, those cunts still won't do shit to improve the lives of marginalized peoples.

"M-maybe you shouldn't call LGBTQ+ people 'faggots'! Also, we're totally not going to give you trannies healthcare herp-derp!" -- Democrats, basically.

Anyway, pfft if [anyone] think they're going to do anything to improve the lives of Asian citizens without being threatened with violence.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Hulk10 » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:24 pm

Tis a sad world we live in........................ And Trump enabled the direct action of hatred.........
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:31 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:57 pm Republicans destroy the world and the US. Democrats destroy the world and the US. Just because domestic policy isn't loudly anti-progress under the Democrats it doesn't mean they don't intentionally deflect and obfuscate away from their actions and lack of action all in the service of their donors. Okay, that was a run-on sentence. Basically, those cunts still won't do shit to improve the lives of marginalized peoples.

"M-maybe you shouldn't call LGBTQ+ people 'faggots'! Also, we're totally not going to give you trannies healthcare herp-derp!" -- Democrats, basically.

Anyway, pfft if [anyone] think they're going to do anything to improve the lives of Asian citizens without being threatened with violence.
Democrats are the ones fighting for transgender rights and decent healthcare laws, along with raising taxes on the 1%.

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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:36 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:31 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:57 pm Republicans destroy the world and the US. Democrats destroy the world and the US. Just because domestic policy isn't loudly anti-progress under the Democrats it doesn't mean they don't intentionally deflect and obfuscate away from their actions and lack of action all in the service of their donors. Okay, that was a run-on sentence. Basically, those cunts still won't do shit to improve the lives of marginalized peoples.

"M-maybe you shouldn't call LGBTQ+ people 'faggots'! Also, we're totally not going to give you trannies healthcare herp-derp!" -- Democrats, basically.

Anyway, pfft if [anyone] think they're going to do anything to improve the lives of Asian citizens without being threatened with violence.
Democrats are the ones fighting for transgender rights and decent healthcare laws, along with raising taxes on the 1%.
How many innocent trans people have they murdered in the eight nations the US is bombing right now?

They don't care about us. They really, really don't.
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Re: Lets stop Asian hate - what can we do?

Post by Melee_Sovereign » Fri Mar 26, 2021 11:41 pm

Hellspawn28 wrote: Fri Mar 26, 2021 9:43 pm
Racistism towards Asians (Easter Asians) have always existed forever.
That's a bit of a stretch. Prior to the Early-Modern period, you didn't have contemporary racial categories to begin with.

However, it has gotten worse since Covid. Trump is able to make people hate Asian people because of Covid similar to how Bush Jr was able to make people hate Muslims because of 9/11. This won't have happened if we had a Democrat in office in 2020. Everytime we have a Republican in office, we have the worse things happen to our country (Bush jr with 9/11 & Iraq and Trump with Covid).
This is a bit of a non-sequitur. As shown in Table 14, It turns out that Blacks commit the most violence against Asians, and the majority of Black people are not Trump supporters.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/cv18.pdf

The Democratic Party is not some moral beckon. They're a political party just like the Republicans, and you have good and bad people in both of them.

Prior to Covid, Affirmative Action, a largely Democratic-backed practice, works against Asians. Because in their eyes, they were over-performing in academia just like whites. Biden's democratic 1994 Crime Bill put a lot of Black people in prison.

White people have the biggest track record of hate and violence in human history.
You understand written human history goes back like 5000 years. There was no idea of a "white race" prior to the Early-Modern period. Before that, people didn't think of other people as being part of today's current racial categories. The type of hate you would have is one kingdom or empire hating another specific kingdom or empire, and certain specific cultures hating another culture, but it didn't revolve around today's broad racial categories.

You sound very apologetic towards white people.
I'm against racism of all kinds, including against white people. Blaming white people for everything is racist.

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