Is android really so wrong?

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:47 pm

People say that android is a wrong name for #17 and #18 because they're not really androids, they're cyborgs. Since Gero was making androids from scratch up until #17 and #18, if I remember correctly that is, so he didn't make the name for his creations with cyborgs in mind, but human shaped. And even if I'm remembering wrong about the from scratch thing, jinzoningen translates to artificial human, which is basically an android.

Edited to change man made to artificial and took out "roughly".

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:49 pm

http://www.daizex.com/general/ask/#20

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 8:59 pm

I have read that before, and it covers if #17 and #18 are androids or cyborgs, but not if android is a proper translation. An Android is a robot made to look like a human, and an Artificial Human is a human made artificially. Aren't they the same thing?

chibi_goten · Post by **chibi_goten** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:04 pm

They are humans that have artificial parts in them. Since the word android means a robot that looks like a human I wouldn't say it was an appropriate thing to call them.

When you look at the link Mike posted up you find this,

android
Pronunciation: 'an-"droid
Function: noun
Etymology: Late Greek androeidEs manlike, from Greek andr- + -oeidEs -oid
: a mobile robot usually with a human form

cyborg
Pronunciation: 'sI-"borg
Function: noun
Etymology: cybernetic + organism
: a bionic human

Later on, Bulma, while taking a look through their blueprints, states:

They're based on human bodies... enhanced almost entirely with bio-organic components...

So I would say Cyborg would suit them best.

Taku128 · Post by **Taku128** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:08 pm

chibi_goten wrote:They are humans that have artificial parts in them. Since the word android means a robot that looks like a human I wouldn't say it was an appropriate thing to call them.

Yes, but Artificial Human (Jinzoningen) means the same thing. Why can they be called artificial humans but not androids?

chibi_goten · Post by **chibi_goten** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 9:15 pm

Yeah I understand where you are coming from, and I guess calling them an android really isn't so wrong as a translation to the word jinzôningen but I think the word cyborg describes what they are better though.

Post by **VegettoEX** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:04 pm

Taku128 wrote:
chibi_goten wrote:They are humans that have artificial parts in them. Since the word android means a robot that looks like a human I wouldn't say it was an appropriate thing to call them.
Yes, but Artificial Human (Jinzoningen) means the same thing. Why can they be called artificial humans but not androids?

No, an "artificial human" is not inherently an "android", and neither is vice-versa.

Honestly, you can call them whatever the bloody fuck you want to call them (OK, so maybe you can't call them "Eduardo"...), but there can definitely be distinctions in phrasings if you choose to take it that far.

Kirbopher · Post by **Kirbopher** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:09 pm

Essentially they wanted to go with a single term for all of the Jinzoningen characters, since all of them are reffered to by the same word in the Japanese version. It doesn't necassarily mean that 18 and 17 aren't still cyborgs IN the dub for instance, because they are. It's stated in FUNimation's scripts a few times and in a few different ways that they're not the same as the others, and that they used to be human and were "remodeled" by Dr. Gero's experiments.

Yeah, Artificial Human would've been a broader term for them to use for all of them, but I'm assuming they went with Android instead for the 'cool' factor, which is understandable. I usually call them just by their numbers, or somethings "Number whatever" and such instead of "Android such and such" since that's what they went with calling them after the Cell arc was finished. Plus, I believe it was stated a while ago that some of the Japanese material that contains english letters reffers to them as Androids.

In my book, using the term is okay, despite being mildly inaccurate.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Mon Dec 11, 2006 10:46 pm

Me personally, I refer to them as both Andriod and Cyborg. On other forums and when talking about them with freind I tend toward Andriod. But sometimes on other forums if on a thread if I see Andriod being used a lot, I correct them with Cyborg thing. Anytime I on this forum though, I will always use Cyborg or C17/18 or #17/18 lest I anger the locals.

aarondirebear · Post by **aarondirebear** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 2:45 am

Even the "robot" parts were made of organic components...that is something Buruma says as she poors over the blueprints of Juunanagou.

Mr.Piccolo · Post by **Mr.Piccolo** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 12:28 pm

Android: An automation that resembles a human being.

Cyborg: A human whose body has been taken over in whole or in part by electromechanical devices.

Artifical:Contrived by art rather than nature. Not arising from natural growth or characterized by vital processes.

Well, 17 and 18 were humans that were later enhanced with robotic parts, so wouldn't they really be cyborgs? Artificial humans implies that they were created out of scratch. So 17, 18, and Gero would be cyborgs seeing how they were humans (technically, still having organic parts)...

-Rick

chibi_goten · Post by **chibi_goten** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:23 pm

I thought Gero was a android body, and it was just his brain that was human.

So that makes him more android, but the fact that he still has his human brain ( not a programmed computer one) makes him a cyborg right?

Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 1:31 pm

chibi_goten wrote:I thought Gero was a android body, and it was just his brain that was human.

So that makes him more android, but the fact that he still has his human brain ( not a programmed computer one) makes him a cyborg right?

Well, Bulma recognized him as Dr. Gero, so that would imply that he's a cyborg as well, built with his original body as a base.

Vestrum Excrucibo · Post by **Vestrum Excrucibo** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:10 pm

This has been bugging me for a while now....
What about Cell? He's completey organic, no? And yet, he is still categorized as an 'android' by a lot of sources that I've seen.

Synthe · Post by **Synthe** » Tue Dec 12, 2006 11:21 pm

Does it even matter? Trying to decide to use two words isnt a big deal.

TAS · Post by **TAS** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:47 am

In the end they're all just "projects" of Dr.Gero, ie Project 17, Project 18, etc.

I mean if people want an all encompassing word for them all you'd have to use something like "project" or something similar as it can be used to describe a wide variety of things. It even works when refering to Cell too, as in Project 21.

I'm sure someone can come up with a better word then "project" though. That was just my thought on it all.

Casual Matt · Post by **Casual Matt** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 2:08 pm

(Quoted from another thread)

The Lecherous Muten Roshi wrote:
Conan the SSJ wrote:
Duo wrote:My standing against the term "Android" is solely becaues of #17, #18, and Cell. They are cyborgs in every sense of the word and should never be referred to as "Androids".
Isn't Cell more a massive-milkshake clone, which as we both know is made up of the Z warriors, Nappa and Vegeta, 6 Saibamen (possibly explaining why he resembles them the most), and Freeza and his Father. Ignoring the self-destructive-aspect, I'd hardly call him a cyborg, I mean he was raised in a test-tube rather than right out of a chamber that the others came out of. In that sense, it's just as hard to call him an Android. One thing that makes me think of this aspect is when everyone are first starting to sense his Ki, they confuse him with Goku, Freeza, and even Piccolo (whom he was battling at the time). So overall, wouldn't he be more a pure clone (with a bomb implanted) than a cyborg?
Let's look at a few definitions:

Cyborg - A human who has certain physiological processes aided or controlled by mechanical or electronic devices.

Although Cell supposidly has mechanical parts inside somehow, he's not a human, and ergo, not a cyborg. Other definitions specifically use words like person and human, too.

Clone - A cell, group of cells, or organism that are descended from and genetically identical to a single common ancestor, such as a bacterial colony whose members arose from a single original cell.

A clone is from (and genetically identical to) a single source. Cell is from many sources, and therefore, cannot be considered a clone.

Android - An automaton that is created from biological materials and resembles a human. Also called humanoid.

And just to clear things up a little;

Automaton - A self-operating machine or mechanism, especially a robot.

So really, going my the definitions listed in this dictionary, Cell is actually much more of an 'android' than a 'cyborg' or 'clone', in that he was created from biological components, and is not a modified human or a technical clone. Though the human resemblence is loosely applicable.

Definitions from The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 3:33 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Well, Bulma recognized him as Dr. Gero, so that would imply that he's a cyborg as well, built with his original body as a base.

Or that he built an android body to look like his human body.

Post by **Kaboom** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:54 pm

Rocketman wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:Well, Bulma recognized him as Dr. Gero, so that would imply that he's a cyborg as well, built with his original body as a base.
Or that he built an android body to look like his human body.

Either way, he's still a cyborg, having his original brain as the human part.

But I assume that it was mostly his original body. If I looked like Gero, then I wouldn't have rebuilt my body to look like that.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Wed Dec 13, 2006 4:56 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:Either way, he's still a cyborg, having his original brain as the human part.

But I assume that it was mostly his original body. If I looked like Gero, then I wouldn't have rebuilt my body to look like that.

There's a couple of hints that Gero still has contact with other scientists. He'd have to look about the same so they'd know him.

Kanzenshuu

Is android really so wrong?

Is android really so wrong?

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