Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
ZeroNeonix
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1393
Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2018 3:35 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by ZeroNeonix » Sun Apr 18, 2021 11:29 am

Zinnia wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 4:08 am
ZeroNeonix wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:20 am IMO, My Hero Academia is so much better than Dragon Ball.
I disagree, as it suffers from the same problems as DB if not more. The side characters are underutilized and at best they can help supporting Deku. When was the last time Iida or Tokoyami got any fights on their own? Even Bakugo, the Vegeta of this series doesn't really do much nor go through any development. Second problem is Shigaraki constantly escaping, it makes the pro heroes look incompetent by being unable to catch one guy. The series has one set villain and the rest are his minions for use, but it's boring to have a single main villain for 300 or so chapters, because the plot has to bend to his will.
Bakugo has no development? What? He goes from being a bully to being a rival. His classmates start to see his hot headed personality as an endearing feature, realizing he was more bark than bite. When he got kidnapped, I thought they were going to go the predictable route and turn him into the villain for Deku to attempt to turn back to the light, but nope. We learn he's got a soft side, and his one goal in life is to become like All-Might. While one might have had the impression before that power was all he respected, it turned out becoming a villain stood against everything that was important to him, and he tells the villains to screw off. And that's another thing I love about the show. Every time I think I know where it's going, they surprise me and do something else.

We also see Bakugo and Deku duke it out, finally settle their differences, and become...sort of...friends again. It never even crosses Bakugo's mind to rat Deku out, and tell the world his secret, again showing us the hidden moral system he has under his hard outer shell.

After their fight, there's a pretty significant portion of the show where Deku isn't involved, because he and Bakugo are on probation and aren't allowed to go to class or do basically anything but chores. They specifically focus on fleshing out the side characters then, such as Red Riot. We even get one new character, who we learn was the guy who probably would have become the next All-Might, if Deku didn't happen to meet All-Might and win him over first. He was the first, and possibility even better, choice for a successor, causing Deku to doubt himself.

Just because we have one big baddie doesn't mean the show lacks villains. You're ignoring a huge cast of characters, each with their own motivations that sometimes come into conflict with each other. Take Stain, the "Hero Killer" villain with a code, for example. He only kills heroes he considers to be hypocrites, and since he kinda has a point, the video that surfaces of him causes the public to lose faith in heroes. He reluctantly joins the other villains, then goes off and does his own thing anyway. I'd argue that All-For-One is more important than Shigaraki. He's not only the man pulling Shigaraki's strings, but he serves as a foil for All-Might.

Overall, the storytelling in My Hero Academia is much more complex and has a higher range of emotions than Dragon Ball. It's not just about beating up bad guys and getting stronger.

User avatar
FoolsGil
I Live Here
Posts: 4969
Joined: Tue May 21, 2013 10:37 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by FoolsGil » Sun Apr 18, 2021 12:52 pm

Any shonen that comes after Dragonball, its pretty much given. I feel like even Bleach succeeded in places Dragonball couldn't, even with its own problems.

I'm going to choose Yu Yu Hakusho, it came out less than 10 years after Dragonball started, and Yoshihiro Togashi just had a better handling of what he wanted from his series, what kinds of characters and their roles, and choice of narrative. and then he went on to make Hunter x Hunter.

User avatar
Planetnamek
Banned
Posts: 936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:17 am

There are definitely other anime that handle romance better then DBZ does as Toriyama has openly admitted that it's not his forte.
"Why run away from something you're not afraid of?" - Goku

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:45 am

Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:17 am There are definitely other anime that handle romance better then DBZ does as Toriyama has openly admitted that it's not his forte.
I’ll go as far as saying any anime that has any romance in at all, and the romance isn’t Twilight levels of toxic, is handled better than Dragon Ball by default.

User avatar
DBZAOTA482
Banned
Posts: 6995
Joined: Mon Feb 20, 2012 4:04 pm
Contact:

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am

Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:17 am There are definitely other anime that handle romance better then DBZ does as Toriyama has openly admitted that it's not his forte.
But that's okay because DBZ is not a romance anime. It's nice Toriyama stuck to what he's good at (which is telling a simple yet engaging story about martial artists and the battle of Good vs. Evil) and didn't try to make it deeper than it actually is *looks at Naruto*.
fadeddreams5 wrote:
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:... Haven't we already gotten these in GT? Goku dies, the DBs go away, and the Namekian DBs most likely won't be used again because of the Evil Dragons.
Goku didn't die in GT. The show sucked him off so much, it was impossible to keep him in the world of the living, so he ascended beyond mortality.
jjgp1112 wrote: Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:31 am I'm just about done with the concept of reboots and making shows that were products of their time and impactful "new and sexy" and in line with modern tastes and sensibilities. Let stuff stay in their era and give today's kids their own shit to watch.

I always side eye the people who say "Now my kids/today's kids can experience what I did as a child!" Nigga, who gives a fuck about your childhood? You're an adult now and it was at least 15 years ago. Let the kids have their own experience instead of picking at a corpse.

User avatar
Planetnamek
Banned
Posts: 936
Joined: Sun Feb 09, 2020 3:54 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Planetnamek » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:27 am

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:05 am
Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:17 am There are definitely other anime that handle romance better then DBZ does as Toriyama has openly admitted that it's not his forte.
But that's okay because DBZ is not a romance anime. It's nice Toriyama stuck to what he's good at (which is telling a simple yet engaging story about martial artists and the battle of Good vs. Evil) and didn't try to make it deeper than it actually is *looks at Naruto*.
That's true and having read Kunzait's posts about Naruto I have to agree that it's nothing special. I recognized a lot of the tropes in it as I previously saw them in those cheesy 80s ninja movies.
"Why run away from something you're not afraid of?" - Goku

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:28 am

Naruto is instantly better than Dragon Ball for the simple fact of it having ambition and Kishimoto actually liking making comics. Dragging his feet on the romance arcs sucked, though.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:24 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:45 am
Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:17 am There are definitely other anime that handle romance better then DBZ does as Toriyama has openly admitted that it's not his forte.
I’ll go as far as saying any anime that has any romance in at all, and the romance isn’t Twilight levels of toxic, is handled better than Dragon Ball by default.
I mean, that isn’t saying much considering how there wasn’t ANY romance in Dragon Ball that wasn’t done for comedy.
“Romantikku ageru yo” my ass.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:24 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:45 am
Planetnamek wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:17 am There are definitely other anime that handle romance better then DBZ does as Toriyama has openly admitted that it's not his forte.
I’ll go as far as saying any anime that has any romance in at all, and the romance isn’t Twilight levels of toxic, is handled better than Dragon Ball by default.
I mean, that isn’t saying much considering how there wasn’t ANY romance in Dragon Ball that wasn’t done for comedy.
“Romantikku ageru yo” my ass.
Eh, 'romantic' also refers to things like adventure and such. It doesn't always refer to a romantic and sexual relationship between multiple people.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:43 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:24 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:45 am

I’ll go as far as saying any anime that has any romance in at all, and the romance isn’t Twilight levels of toxic, is handled better than Dragon Ball by default.
I mean, that isn’t saying much considering how there wasn’t ANY romance in Dragon Ball that wasn’t done for comedy.
“Romantikku ageru yo” my ass.
Eh, 'romantic' also refers to things like adventure and such. It doesn't always refer to a romantic and sexual relationship between multiple people.
Even in that regard, there was next to no “romantic” atmosphere in the series. It’s not in the nature of gag-stories.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:45 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:43 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:28 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 12:24 pm

I mean, that isn’t saying much considering how there wasn’t ANY romance in Dragon Ball that wasn’t done for comedy.
“Romantikku ageru yo” my ass.
Eh, 'romantic' also refers to things like adventure and such. It doesn't always refer to a romantic and sexual relationship between multiple people.
Even in that regard, there was next to no “romantic” atmosphere in the series. It’s not in the nature of gag-stories.
Well, the cartoon staff felt different, apparently. :shrug:
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Sep 03, 2021 12:39 pm

For me, Yu Yu Hakusho. Even though the power creep elements are there, it feels more natural rather than becoming a trope like it became later in the Z portion. Also, Togashi can write love scenes (which admittedly weren't a focus for Toriyama). In Yu Yu Hakusho, the non-powered characters keep relevance as well. There's an overall stronger emphasis on characters in Yu Yu Hakusho, in general.

This being said, I'd put the 22nd Budokai, King Piccolo, Piccolo Jr., Saiyan, and Frieza Sagas (bold for the ones I think are the best) on the same level as Yu Yu Hakusho.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:17 pm

yeah, i definitely think yu yu hakusho is just straight up better then dragon ball. i'd be lying if i said i had any interest in or liked most of the shounen shows that get really popular (naruto, bleach, hxh [well i actually liked it till the ant shit], death note, eva, mha, demon slayer, whatever whatever), but i do think yyh is pretty special with what it does. there's a kunzait post on here about yyh that i really love, but i think the series does a really good with staying to it's theme, does a great job with it's cast and has really fantastic fight scene, and the anime adaption is honestly fantastic. amazing cast, really great music, and the direction and animation are honestly kinda ridiculous for a weekly show. i'd honestly say the only thing i prefer from post RRA db compared to it is that the art in the manga is way better.

and then i don't know if it's a shounen but flcl is probably my favorite show besides utena, so that to i guess.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

User avatar
Demon Prince Piccolo
OMG CRAZY REGEN
Posts: 911
Joined: Tue Aug 25, 2020 6:34 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Fri Sep 03, 2021 3:10 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:17 pm yeah, i definitely think yu yu hakusho is just straight up better then dragon ball. i'd be lying if i said i had any interest in or liked most of the shounen shows that get really popular (naruto, bleach, hxh [well i actually liked it till the ant shit], death note, eva, mha, demon slayer, whatever whatever), but i do think yyh is pretty special with what it does. there's a kunzait post on here about yyh that i really love, but i think the series does a really good with staying to it's theme, does a great job with it's cast and has really fantastic fight scene, and the anime adaption is honestly fantastic. amazing cast, really great music, and the direction and animation are honestly kinda ridiculous for a weekly show. i'd honestly say the only thing i prefer from post RRA db compared to it is that the art in the manga is way better.

and then i don't know if it's a shounen but flcl is probably my favorite show besides utena, so that to i guess.
I've yet to read the YYH manga (I will soon as I bought it awhile back), but based on what I've seen I agree with that assessment that the DB manga art-post RRA is superior. Smile Bomb is my favorite opening theme of any anime, and the animation in the Chapter Black arc (like the sample that you posted) was simply outstanding. I haven't watched many of the more modern shounen, but I have watched MHA. I certainly like it, but I wouldn't put it on the level of Dragon Ball currently. Once it's complete, it may be a different story.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

Dragon Ball Ireland
I Live Here
Posts: 3540
Joined: Thu May 21, 2015 9:09 am
Location: Sligo, Ireland

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:04 pm

I actually bought all of Yu Yu Hakusho on Blu-Ray a while ago. Stopped a little bit into the second season, but I do want to get back to it at some point.
Do you have any info about international non-English broadcasts about the Dragon Ball anime or manga translations/editions? Please message me. Researching for a future book with Dragon Ball scholar Derek Padula :thumbup:

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:18 pm

Yuu Yuu Hakusho is such an important work for anime as a medium. What Shinbou Akiyuki and Wakabayashi Atsushi helped bring to the long-running battle anime had such a huge effect on Naruto and as well as their other work. Definitely started a big tradition for the long-running battle anime as well as pushed directing and animation to new levels both for television and film fair.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:29 pm

shinbo's work on YYH is legit sooooo good, i actually didn't even realize he worked on it untill i was watching hidamari sketch of all things, when i thought stuff like this looked a little familiar (mainly how the backgrounds are animated) lol.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:40 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:29 pm shinbo's work on YYH is legit sooooo good, i actually didn't even realize he worked on it untill i was watching hidamari sketch of all things, when i thought stuff like this looked a little familiar (mainly how the backgrounds are animated) lol.
It's so good! His episodes just continually got better the longer the series went until Wakabayashi left after #74. Like, Shinbou's episodes would recreate the ending of the previous episode and the layouts would always look so much better, it's hilarious. The effect Yuu Yuu Hakusho had on Naruto is nuts and only wound up helping Naruto become the Yuu Yuu Hakusho to even more anime.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
ABED
Namekian Warrior
Posts: 20276
Joined: Thu Jan 31, 2013 10:23 am
Location: Skippack, PA
Contact:

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 03, 2021 7:50 pm

Soppa Saia People wrote: Fri Sep 03, 2021 2:17 pm yeah, i definitely think yu yu hakusho is just straight up better then dragon ball. i'd be lying if i said i had any interest in or liked most of the shounen shows that get really popular (naruto, bleach, hxh [well i actually liked it till the ant shit], death note, eva, mha, demon slayer, whatever whatever), but i do think yyh is pretty special with what it does. there's a kunzait post on here about yyh that i really love, but i think the series does a really good with staying to it's theme, does a great job with it's cast and has really fantastic fight scene, and the anime adaption is honestly fantastic. amazing cast, really great music, and the direction and animation are honestly kinda ridiculous for a weekly show. i'd honestly say the only thing i prefer from post RRA db compared to it is that the art in the manga is way better.

and then i don't know if it's a shounen but flcl is probably my favorite show besides utena, so that to i guess.
Maybe I'm just weird but while there are parts of that animation I like, the way the characters move just looks weird and is, for a lack of better word, "rubbery"

But yes, YYH is fantastic and I think a big part of the reason it does a better job with its cast of characters is that it keeps the group small.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Are there other shonen you acknowledge as better written than Dragon Ball?

Post by Soppa Saia People » Fri Sep 03, 2021 8:27 pm

i definitely can see why the fairly off model, really exaggerated movements of wakabayashi's and shinbo's episodes isn't for everybody, especially because outside of the weird ass perspectives and backgrounds, that isn't really the style of the show for the most part, but i love it. the toguro flashback episode (which is my favorite ep of the whole show) in particular is probably the best usage of that style, it's just so striking and with how weird it is fits the ep perfectly. also their episode of the hiei bui fight, holy crap.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

Post Reply