Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:49 pm

Maybe it's too late for that, or not?

We know that Super Saiyan Blue is a very.. controversial transformation, to say the least? This form has a fair share of criticism and haters, largely due to the circumstances and the manner in which it was introduced (and I agree with several of these criticisms). However, I would like to highlight what I particularly appreciate about this form (since liking it seems to be unusual and a hot take on its own in the DB fandom, I guess?)

Image

First of all, I would like to say that I REALLY like the concept. It seems quite simple and obvious but, at the same time, efficient. It is the power of the Super Saiyan God combined with that of the Super Super Saiyan. Both are legendary transformations in the Saiyan mythology, but they are part of distinct lineages. So, why not combine the two legends into one form? Btw, following this reasoning, I find it interesting how the initial promotional materials of SSB (RoF) highlighted it as the '' Ultimate Saiyan form '' and a form that ''surpass not only the legend, but the myth''

Image

Still talking about the concept, Toriyama describes the choice for the blue hair color as a way of expressing that by overcoming a certain limit, Goku had become both strong and tranquil, able to keep his composure in a fight. And considering the nature of the Super Saiyan God (pure heart), it fits perfectly and I also really like it.I also think this feeling is conveyed through the aura, which is less fierce than the Super Saiyan, with occasional surges of electricity and Godly particles of energy around. Particularly, I find it a remarkably beautiful aura

Image

To conclude by talking about the portrait in the anime and manga, despite the lackluster first impression, I love how this form is used in the anime exhibition tournament, surprising all the Gods and demonstrating a big and well-deserved impact (with an OST created specifically for that). In the manga, I really liked the concept of keeping Blue a relevant transformation for as long as possible, as opposed to what usually happened in the original Dragon Ball. Goku and Vegeta focused on finding ways to improve this form instead of looking for new ones, which resulted in SSB being the strongest transformation for more than 3 consecutive arcs (which is surprising I would say). In fact, in the manga the only beings that have definitely overcome Blue's true power are the antagonists (Broly, Jiren, Moro and now Granolah, disregarding the Gods).

Well, that was too big of a post for a not-so-popular transformation. If you've read this far, tell me, what do you think of SSB? Has your opinion on this form changed since its introduction? Did you also start to like it or still hate it?

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Grimlock » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:01 pm

Oh hey, nice to see the "appreciation thread" back again, and in the same format as the old ones! :)


Anyway, just gonna say that the concept is really the only thing this form has going on for it. On paper, combining the Super Saiyan God power that was previously absorbed (and thus rendering the Super Saiyan God form utterly useless to appear in future works) with the Super Saiyan transformation still sounds like an amazing idea even six years later.

It could also serve as a way to reduce the amount of transformations used in battle. Goku (and later Vegeta) would mostly fight in base form (more specifically, Saiyan beyond God) and whenever he needed to transform, he would be Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. I say this because I initially assumed that after absorbing the power of Super Saiyan God, Goku would be a god 24/7. It wouldn't work as Gohan's Ultimate transformation, which he can "turn on/turn off" in the anime continuity, it would be more like in the manga continuity, always in that state.


Too bad the execution leaves much to be desired. An ugly recolor? Is that all Toriyama could come up with? Oh well... :|
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:16 pm

I wish I could say something positive about it, but it’s just not a very inspired looking form, and it’s way overused in the anime.

User avatar
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips
Regular
Posts: 740
Joined: Fri Jan 03, 2020 7:16 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:58 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:49 pm Still talking about the concept, Toriyama describes the choice for the blue hair color as a way of expressing that by overcoming a certain limit, Goku had become both strong and tranquil, able to keep his composure in a fight. And considering the nature of the Super Saiyan God (pure heart), it fits perfectly and I also really like it.I also think this feeling is conveyed through the aura, which is less fierce than the Super Saiyan, with occasional surges of electricity and Godly particles of energy around. Particularly, I find it a remarkably beautiful aura
See, this is ultimately what keeps me from disliking the form outright.

The original SSj transformation communicated power in a way that the other transformations in the series just don't. Cell, Freeza, Zarbon, even SSj3 never manage to capture that feeling. While the Kaioken technique turned Goku into a swollen mass of dangerous muscle, SSj chained all that power behind an icy blue stare and aura that invoked a golden halo. I know some people aren't going to like this comparison but SSj (in its first appearance) made Goku look like an avatar of divine fury.

Image

Super Saiyan Blue builds on that by filing off the violent edge. No longer is the Super Saiyan a violent, rage-filled angel, he's now a projection of power. No anger, no trauma, no loss of control. Just strength.

Image


Instead of falling into the trap of trying to top SSj, Super Saiyan Blue looks to do its own thing and its hard not to appreciate that.

If I weren't burned out on transformations I'd probably love SSGSS. Shame I can't seperate it from 20 years of asspulls and fandom OCs.
My opinions suck. You should probably mute me to spare yourself having to see them.

"If someone gets Star Wars wrong? Death threats. If a kid learns that a shitty song they liked when they were 12 was a cover of a song made in 1984? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that's too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone makes a Sonic game that isn't too dark and edgy? Death threats. If someone criticizes Naruto? Lots of death threats. Sexualizes pokemon? UNIVERSAL PRAISE." - Plague of Gripes

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Vijay » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:05 am

It's Toriko ripoff. That's the appreciation. That's that. End of thread 😂

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:57 am

I think that a whole ass ritual was needed for Super Saiyan God and then they were like “Here’s the Super Saiyan version of that! That doesn’t require a ritual and Vegeta has reached it somehow too!” rubbed me the wrong way. And then it became the default level of Super Saiyan for Super. That and saying this is the Super Saiyan level of Super Saiyan God is just dumb to the point of self parody except they’re being serious about it.

They should have figured out an explanation for Goku and Vegeta being able to go Super Saiyan God without needing a ritual every time and used that as the go to form for Super..

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:02 am

Grimlock wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:01 pm Oh hey, nice to see the "appreciation thread" back again, and in the same format as the old ones! :)
I actually wanted to do that after seeing your post on the Goten thread :lol:

Since apparently this kind of post have not been done for a long time, I thought this might be a good idea. It might be cool to do this for other transformations, but I think it works better if I talk about forms that the fandom doesn't already love.
Grimlock wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:01 pm Too bad the execution leaves much to be desired. An ugly recolor? Is that all Toriyama could come up with? Oh well... :|
I particularly like the blue color for the hair, what would be your idea for the look of the SSB then?
WittyUsername wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:16 pm and it’s way overused in the anime.
That's one of my problems with with the use of this form in anime, too. Weird how they managed to make impactful scenes using this transformation (kind of redeeming the first lackluster use of SSB a little), but then they just overused it to the point of making it look less special and undermining the impact it should have during some moments.That's why I like the manga's approach in that sense, it really made Blue feel strong most of the time.
MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:57 am I think that a whole ass ritual was needed for Super Saiyan God and then they were like “Here’s the Super Saiyan version of that! That doesn’t require a ritual and Vegeta has reached it somehow too!” rubbed me the wrong way. And then it became the default level of Super Saiyan for Super. That and saying this is the Super Saiyan level of Super Saiyan God is just dumb to the point of self parody except they’re being serious about it.
I remember the infamous time when people believed that Super Saiyan God was stronger than Blue, and a very common headcanon was that the God form was stronger due to the ritual. I agree that it should have been better highlighted the way Goku and Vegeta obtained God power without the ritual, and then further explore how they combined that power with that of Super Saiyan to create a new form.

But this whole thing seems to have been hazy for quite some time, for some reason. SSG Vegeta for example was never explicitly shown or mentioned until the FT arc in the manga, and in the animation he only appeared in the Broly movie after the end of Super. In the anime, SSG Goku is absent for most of the show after the first arc and just makes a sudden comeback in the final arc, which leaves us with the question of why he didn't use this form before. I think the writers weren't sure what to do or whether Goku / Vegeta really kept their God form

Cipher
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6333
Joined: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:54 pm
Location: Nagano
Contact:

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Cipher » Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:03 am

I actually like Blue. At least in small doses, and particularly with its treatment in the manga.

It’s visually refreshing when it first shows up in “F”, especially mostly accompanied by its aura (which it suffers without in the anime’s color scheme, and that’s part of it becoming visually tiresome in the TV version of Super, along with its extremely frequent use). It still looks good in all media when accompanied by its aura, and at all points with the less teal color schemes used for it in both Broly and the color edition of the Super manga. (The aura globules used to distinguish it in the manga are also a nice touch, and I think something that would have been worth carrying over even into other media.)

Outside of visuals, it’s unique in its use in the manga as a powerful form that its users have to actively work on to get full mileage out of. There’s a steady stream of breakthroughs in its usage up through the Tournament of Power. Rather than simply layering on transformations, a substantial amount of time is spent making a single one more useful.

User avatar
TheSaiyanGod
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1906
Joined: Sun Dec 18, 2016 12:09 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:28 am

Cipher wrote: Sun Apr 11, 2021 7:03 am I actually like Blue. At least in small doses, and particularly with its treatment in the manga.

It’s visually refreshing when it first shows up in “F”, especially mostly accompanied by its aura (which it suffers without in the anime’s color scheme, and that’s part of it becoming visually tiresome in the TV version of Super, along with its extremely frequent use). It still looks good in all media when accompanied by its aura, and at all points with the less teal color schemes used for it in both Broly and the color edition of the Super manga. (The aura globules used to distinguish it in the manga are also a nice touch, and I think something that would have been worth carrying over even into other media.)

Outside of visuals, it’s unique in its use in the manga as a powerful form that its users have to actively work on to get full mileage out of. There’s a steady stream of breakthroughs in its usage up through the Tournament of Power. Rather than simply layering on transformations, a substantial amount of time is spent making a single one more useful.
I think it's ironic that Super Saiyan Blue was probably where people started to get tired of the Saiyan transformations and realized that perhaps the list was too bloated unnecessarily, but at the same time that was the point at which they decided that this not-so-beloved transformation would stick as the main for several consecutive arcs in a way that didn’t happen in the original series (at least in terms of relevance to the story).

Blue in the anime has its moments, but in the manga is where it really shines in terms of portrait and importance. I mean, Kaioken Blue was a cool idea that was well executed in its debut (probably many prefer it over the manga version), but I think that in the long run it ended up creating more questions and doubts. In addition to contributing to a power creep that didn't need to exist at that time in the series, it ended up indirectly contributing to the creation of another transformation (Blue Evolution, in response to that)

User avatar
Trouser
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 439
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 9:02 am
Location: Capsule Corp.

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Trouser » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:50 am

I like the aura and that special effect during transformation when Goku first transformed on screen. Other than that I can't say anything good about this form. Concept is good but execution is not. I'd rather Blue never existed.
But hey! At least aura is nice!
"If it means having to live under your control, I'd rather be dead!" - Trunks
English is not my first language, if I've made a mistake, please, feel free to correct me. It will help, thanks.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by MasenkoHA » Sun Apr 11, 2021 11:07 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:02 am
I remember the infamous time when people believed that Super Saiyan God was stronger than Blue, and a very common headcanon was that the God form was stronger due to the ritual. I agree that it should have been better highlighted the way Goku and Vegeta obtained God power without the ritual, and then further explore how they combined that power with that of Super Saiyan to create a new form.

But this whole thing seems to have been hazy for quite some time, for some reason. SSG Vegeta for example was never explicitly shown or mentioned until the FT arc in the manga, and in the animation he only appeared in the Broly movie after the end of Super. In the anime, SSG Goku is absent for most of the show after the first arc and just makes a sudden comeback in the final arc, which leaves us with the question of why he didn't use this form before. I think the writers weren't sure what to do or whether Goku / Vegeta really kept their God form
I would have preferred that, tbh. Like, Super Saiyan God is way too impractical to use so Goku and Vega find a way to reach a level far more powerful than Super Saiyan 3 but not quite a God level. Like Super Saiyan Demigod. That’s what Blue should have been.

But no, Bandai can’t sell Super Saiyan Blue action figures if it’s weaker than Super Saiyan God so we get a nonsense “a form stronger than Super Saiyan God but also way easier to obtain”

Kinokima
I Live Here
Posts: 2005
Joined: Tue Sep 05, 2017 2:02 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Kinokima » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:46 pm

I don’t mind Blue itself but I don’t like how the transformation was introduced. Then again last time I liked how a transformation was introduced was when Gohan went SSJ2 after that transformation kind of lost their impact for me.

Funny thing is I don’t mind that they introduce them so we get the characters in new looks for merchandise and games. Although for merchandise I’d like new outfits more often too.

So yeah I guess I am a hypocrite. Story wise I wish there were not so many transformations and the characters had to rely on other ways to beat opponents more but I like buying stuff with art of the new transformations.

Blue isn’t my favorite thing ever but it’s not the most offensive either (that would be SSJ3 for me)

User avatar
Grimlock
Kicks it Old-School
Posts: 8241
Joined: Sun Jan 24, 2016 4:11 pm
Location: Cybertron.

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Grimlock » Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:51 pm

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Sat Apr 10, 2021 9:02 am I particularly like the blue color for the hair, what would be your idea for the look of the SSB then?
This transformation wouldn't even exist to begin with. Far too many Saiyans forms already. But if someone was pointing a gun to my head, I would just mess with the hairstyle and maybe the aura to help it distinguish itself. You can accomplish more with just that.
Goodbye friend. You are weak, so you must be destroyed!

~ War of the Dinobots ~

User avatar
PerhapsTheOtherOne
I Live Here
Posts: 2658
Joined: Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:55 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by PerhapsTheOtherOne » Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:06 pm

I like how it became a new default form.

We haven't had that since, well...... ever, really.

Every other form was eventually abandoned or outright surpassed and made obsolete as the primary fighting form in the following arc in some capacity.

But SSB stuck around, was improved upon, and even when it was surpassed it never lost its purpose as the best overall form in terms of power, reliability, and accessibility that Vegeta and Goku shared and stuck with when fighting these various god-level opponents. I particularly like how the anime approached it; power-ups were always through training or alternative means like the Kaioken, but the form itself remained usable all throughout.

PanSimpson
Banned
Posts: 30
Joined: Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:36 am

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by PanSimpson » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:28 pm

It’s better and looks cooler than Super Saiyan 3 and 4.

User avatar
Koitsukai
I Live Here
Posts: 4276
Joined: Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:02 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Koitsukai » Sun Apr 11, 2021 9:34 pm

My major complaint is the greenish blue the anime chose to go with. The Broly movie had the blue I always wanted.

User avatar
FPSSJ4_Goku
Regular
Posts: 537
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2020 1:33 pm
Location: New York, US
Contact:

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by FPSSJ4_Goku » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:22 am

I like Super Saiyan Blue because the English dub gave it some of the coolest lines ever.

Like:

"You're gonna regret telling me that, Zamasu! Because now I'm mad...I'm really, really mad! And now it's time...TO PAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!
So, you decided to read my signature, eh?

If you'd like, check out my YouTube channel, and maybe subscribe?

User avatar
Majin Buu
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:37 am

Eh, Blue feels like an oblivious self-parody of Super Saiyan to me.

It would be a pretty clever idea if it were actually used in a parody/satire context rather than used with complete sincerity.

User avatar
Robo4900
I Live Here
Posts: 4383
Joined: Mon Oct 03, 2016 2:24 pm
Location: In another time and place...

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:45 am

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:37 am Eh, Blue feels like an oblivious self-parody of Super Saiyan to me.

It would be a pretty clever idea if it were actually used in a parody/satire context rather than used with complete sincerity.
If it was used in such a context, it would just feel like a retread of Super Saiyan 3.

I think, realistically, a new iteration of Dragon Ball was always going to have some new Super Saiyan transformations, so if we have the assumption going in that there will be at least two new forms, Blue is not a bad second form after the first God form (which I still prefer). It looks very different from most other forms, it has a distinct aura, etc., and it uses (and makes sense of) its concept far better than the third form Super would end up introducing (Ultra Instinct, which should never have been presented as a traditional transformation).

Really, the problems with Blue are just the problems with Super as a whole; unnecessary, obvious, disposable, etc. If you can get past that enough to enjoy Super, you can't really hold it against Super's most iconic transformation, much like how you can't really hold it against Super Saiyan that it gets dragged out for a very long time and becomes very overplayed by the end.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

User avatar
Majin Buu
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

Re: Super Saiyan Blue appreciation thread

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:45 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:45 amIf it was used in such a context, it would just feel like a retread of Super Saiyan 3.
True, but that would at least better justify its existence than trying to unironically sell a simple palette swap as the new hotness transformation.

Post Reply