Cell is replaced in the movie by Androids 13-15. It's the one secret lab.Movie 7 at least makes some sense as we can naturally assume that there were Androids 9-15 at some point. It's just that it relies on the same "secret bunker" thing that Cell's reveal does. How many secret bunkers does Gero's lab have exactly?
Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
I just assume that they both know who the other is, they just don't have any dialogue about it. It's really just a particular style choice from the writers that is probably for the purposes of keeping the plot moving.
Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
You mean like an alternate timeline where Cell never existed? That makes sense I guess.MyVisionity wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:28 pmCell is replaced in the movie by Androids 13-15. It's the one secret lab.Movie 7 at least makes some sense as we can naturally assume that there were Androids 9-15 at some point. It's just that it relies on the same "secret bunker" thing that Cell's reveal does. How many secret bunkers does Gero's lab have exactly?
I always liked the theory that Movie 7 takes place in the "unseen timeline" where they defeated 17 and 18 before Trunks returned to the future to be killed by Cell.
Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
I always assumed it took place in an AU where Piccolo successfully destroyed the Androids after merging with Kami. Possibly Cell as well if he ever came to the present timeline.
And yes that makes Piccolo the strongest character in movie 7 timeline despite nothing to show for it in the actual film
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
Yes, it was just a personal interpretation i had as to why he potentially resented Freeza but i do get that it isn't what the writers were necessarily intending to portray.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:23 pmThat’s an interesting interpretation, but I’m certain that was never what Toei was going for. The whole point of Cooler is that he’s Freeza big bad older brother who’s superior to him. You’re just not supposed to think too much about it, just like with all these other movies.SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:48 pmIt definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cooler was living in the shadows of King Cold and Freeza and didn't have nearly the same amount of power or influence as either of them. I mean, it's not a stretch to think he was envious or perhaps even jealous that his brother was higher in status as such within their family/organization. Cooler was a lesser regarded member and i'll bet there was a potential sibling rivalry, butting of heads or whatever in play between them at some point.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 pm Either they've met before or Vegeta just doesn't believe Cooler's worth acknowledging compared to Freeza. After all, Freeza was the emperor of the North Galaxy while Cooler was a relative nobody.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
To build on this, Cooler likely wasn't as involved with the saiyans as Freeza was. The saiyans feel important to us for narrative purposes but to most of Freeza's army, they were just another species that Freeza had conquered and committed mass genocide against. As far as Cooler was concerned, Vegeta was just another member of Freeza's army. He was probably familiar with Zarbon or Ginyu but that's it.SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:48 pmIt definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cooler was living in the shadows of King Cold and Freeza and didn't have nearly the same amount of power or influence as either of them. I mean, it's not a stretch to think he was envious or perhaps even jealous that his brother was higher in status as such within their family/organization. Cooler was a lesser regarded member and i'll bet there was a potential sibling rivalry, butting of heads or whatever in play between them at some point.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 pm Either they've met before or Vegeta just doesn't believe Cooler's worth acknowledging compared to Freeza. After all, Freeza was the emperor of the North Galaxy while Cooler was a relative nobody.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
That's what i figured, as Cooler was more or less just standing by watching the show as Freeza was in the middle of destroying Planet Vegeta and most of the Saiyans as the flashback at the start of movie 5 sourced from the Bardock special reveals. When little Goku/Kakarott's pod goes by and one of the men asks if they should dispose of it he's basically like "No this is Freeza's deal, just let it be" and doesn't intervene. It's likely he was effectively uninvolved with Freeza's rule over the Saiyans for the most part in that span of time and probably why he would not remember or know Vegeta then.TheSeductiveTomato wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:07 pmTo build on this, Cooler likely wasn't as involved with the saiyans as Freeza was. The saiyans feel important to us for narrative purposes but to most of Freeza's army, they were just another species that Freeza had conquered and committed mass genocide against. As far as Cooler was concerned, Vegeta was just another member of Freeza's army. He was probably familiar with Zarbon or Ginyu but that's it.SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:48 pmIt definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cooler was living in the shadows of King Cold and Freeza and didn't have nearly the same amount of power or influence as either of them. I mean, it's not a stretch to think he was envious or perhaps even jealous that his brother was higher in status as such within their family/organization. Cooler was a lesser regarded member and i'll bet there was a potential sibling rivalry, butting of heads or whatever in play between them at some point.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 pm Either they've met before or Vegeta just doesn't believe Cooler's worth acknowledging compared to Freeza. After all, Freeza was the emperor of the North Galaxy while Cooler was a relative nobody.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
This is me being pedantic but I don't think Frieza even had any involvement in the North Galaxy. His empire seemed closer to Namek than Earth, and King Kai said Namek was outside of his jurisdiction. I'd imagine King Kai just knows of Frieza because of his reputation across the rest of the universe.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 pm Either they've met before or Vegeta just doesn't believe Cooler's worth acknowledging compared to Freeza. After all, Freeza was the emperor of the North Galaxy while Cooler was a relative nobody.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
I always believe that #13 is meant to be like an alternative version of Cell seeing that they can absorb two other cyborgs to become a stronger form. I view DBZ Movie 7 in an alternate timeline where Dr. Gero created #13 instead of Cell. It could explain why Cell was never seen or mention in the movie.90sDBZ wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:43 pmYou mean like an alternate timeline where Cell never existed? That makes sense I guess.MyVisionity wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:28 pmCell is replaced in the movie by Androids 13-15. It's the one secret lab.Movie 7 at least makes some sense as we can naturally assume that there were Androids 9-15 at some point. It's just that it relies on the same "secret bunker" thing that Cell's reveal does. How many secret bunkers does Gero's lab have exactly?
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
That makes sense too. Although if we try to see it as the unseen timeline the dead version of Trunks had already been to, it would make more sense for Cell never to have appeared there, as that Trunks acts like he's never seen Cell before right before he dies.
Either theory works, and it's obvious neither Toei or Toriyama put that much thought into time travel logic. I just find it more fun to believe that there really was this mysterious unseen timeline, and Movie 7 was a glimpse into it.
I think Cooler does mention that Frieza was stronger than him before he discovered his 5th form, which makes sense considering Base Goku overpowers his 4th form quite easily. Cooler living in Frieza's shadow makes sense. I still feel he'd know who Vegeta was though, as he obviously knows about Saiyans. And if Vegeta really hadn't met him before I don't see why he wouldn't have the same reaction as everyone else in Movie 5; mistaking him for Frieza.Hellspawn28 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:57 pm It definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cooler was living in the shadows of King Cold and Freeza and didn't have nearly the same amount of power or influence as either of them. I mean, it's not a stretch to think he was envious or perhaps even jealous that his brother was higher in status as such within their family/organization. Cooler was a lesser regarded member and i'll bet there was a potential sibling rivalry, butting of heads or whatever in play between them at some point.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
I believe that's only in the dub. In the original Coola only says that he can transform one more time than Freeza.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
Yeah. The Japanese version doesn’t go in any real detail about Cooler’s relationship with Freeza, other than that Cooler is his more powerful sibling, and that he doesn’t have the highest opinion of Freeza. The dub is the version that tries to suggest that they had a bitter sibling rivalry, and that Cooler planned on killing Freeza himself eventually. It also implies that King Cold displayed favoritism towards Freeza, when no mention of him is even made in the Japanese version.MyVisionity wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:44 pmI believe that's only in the dub. In the original Coola only says that he can transform one more time than Freeza.
Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
The line still makes sense though. In the Japanese version Goku doesn't say Cooler is stronger than Frieza until he transforms, which suggests he hadn't been stronger than Frieza up to that point. And Cooler's 4th form gets knocked around by Base Goku, who couldn't touch Frieza's 4th form without Kaioken x20.MyVisionity wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:44 pmI believe that's only in the dub. In the original Coola only says that he can transform one more time than Freeza.
I could be wrong but I don't think King Cold is ever mentioned in the dub. I know several of the video games had the Frieza and Cooler rivalry.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:15 pm Yeah. The Japanese version doesn’t go in any real detail about Cooler’s relationship with Freeza, other than that Cooler is his more powerful sibling, and that he doesn’t have the highest opinion of Freeza. The dub is the version that tries to suggest that they had a bitter sibling rivalry, and that Cooler planned on killing Freeza himself eventually. It also implies that King Cold displayed favoritism towards Freeza, when no mention of him is even made in the Japanese version.
Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
King Cold's not mentioned by name but Cooler says "Our father spoiled you rotten."90sDBZ wrote: ↑Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:34 amThe line still makes sense though. In the Japanese version Goku doesn't say Cooler is stronger than Frieza until he transforms, which suggests he hadn't been stronger than Frieza up to that point. And Cooler's 4th form gets knocked around by Base Goku, who couldn't touch Frieza's 4th form without Kaioken x20.MyVisionity wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:44 pmI believe that's only in the dub. In the original Coola only says that he can transform one more time than Freeza.I could be wrong but I don't think King Cold is ever mentioned in the dub. I know several of the video games had the Frieza and Cooler rivalry.WittyUsername wrote: ↑Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:15 pm Yeah. The Japanese version doesn’t go in any real detail about Cooler’s relationship with Freeza, other than that Cooler is his more powerful sibling, and that he doesn’t have the highest opinion of Freeza. The dub is the version that tries to suggest that they had a bitter sibling rivalry, and that Cooler planned on killing Freeza himself eventually. It also implies that King Cold displayed favoritism towards Freeza, when no mention of him is even made in the Japanese version.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
Considering Cooler was more powerful than Freeza at the start of his conception as a character, that's a huge stretch.SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:48 pmIt definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cooler was living in the shadows of King Cold and Freeza and didn't have nearly the same amount of power or influence as either of them. I mean, it's not a stretch to think he was envious or perhaps even jealous that his brother was higher in status as such within their family/organization. Cooler was a lesser regarded member and i'll bet there was a potential sibling rivalry, butting of heads or whatever in play between them at some point.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 pm Either they've met before or Vegeta just doesn't believe Cooler's worth acknowledging compared to Freeza. After all, Freeza was the emperor of the North Galaxy while Cooler was a relative nobody.
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Re: Vegeta's lack of reaction to Cooler in Movie 6
Ok, so i guess i was reaching a bit there on that one. When looking at it again it appears he was more off put by Freeza's arrogance/weakness/whatever than any envy or jealous feelings.Captain Sauza wrote: ↑Sat May 29, 2021 5:38 pmConsidering Cooler was more powerful than Freeza at the start of his conception as a character, that's a huge stretch.SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:48 pmIt definitely wouldn't surprise me if Cooler was living in the shadows of King Cold and Freeza and didn't have nearly the same amount of power or influence as either of them. I mean, it's not a stretch to think he was envious or perhaps even jealous that his brother was higher in status as such within their family/organization. Cooler was a lesser regarded member and i'll bet there was a potential sibling rivalry, butting of heads or whatever in play between them at some point.DBZAOTA482 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:42 pm Either they've met before or Vegeta just doesn't believe Cooler's worth acknowledging compared to Freeza. After all, Freeza was the emperor of the North Galaxy while Cooler was a relative nobody.
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2.) Collect rest of manga
3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)