Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

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Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:20 pm

I believe that some of you may remember Toriyama's statement (before RoF) that he wanted to put Vegeta in the main role of a new movie. He makes it clear that these are nothing more than intentions and that he hadn't decided on anything yet


As we know, this never happened (as much as the end of the RoF movie felt like an '' almost there ''). Eventually, during Super, Vegeta's role continued to grow to the point that in Moro arc, for several months, many people believed that Vegeta was the protagonist of the arc and that he would defeat the villain. Again, it didn't happen, and I believe Vegeta's role will never go beyond that.

Do you think that the idea of Vegeta being the protagonist of a story or two would be good or refreshing for the series? Why do you think this was never more than an idea / intention that was publicly stated by Toriyama?

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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:37 pm

I would watch the hell out of a Vegeta family style sitcom. Like a Seth Mcfarlane cartoon but funny.


Also up until his death Vegeta kind of was the protagonist of the Namek arc in Z.
Last edited by MasenkoHA on Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by Alruneia » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:38 pm

I believe that the idea that Goku must be front and center at almost all times is pretty ingrained in modern Dragon Ball's writing. Maybe even a little too ingrained, to the point where it could hurt the stories they're trying to tell because they have to steer it back to Goku no matter what. (Why it's like that has been debated for pages on end in other threads, so it's probably not necessary to do it again here.) I'd like for Dragon Ball Super to start treading outside the safe zone a little more, and actually daring to let Vegeta do something other than his "losing to the main villain's new power" routine would be a good start, but at the moment, especially after the Moro arc, I don't think anything like that is going to happen. It just feels like playing it safe is far too important.
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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by goku the krump dancer » Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:39 pm

As long as it’s cohesive then it should work. One of my issues with the Zamasu arc is that while Trunks is clearly the front runner protagonist of the storyline, Zamasu seems to specifically like to single out Goku as the straw that broke the camels back for him to initiate his plans. He personally sought out Goku’s body to steal, killed his family and then rubbed in his face for mockery. Trunks just so happen to be in the timeline he jumped to, in order to get proper practice using his new body to fight.
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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:02 pm

I don't know if it'd be refreshing but it's definitely something that would scratch an itch the fandom has had for over twenty years now. The number of All Saiyan, Vegeta-sei Intact, Group of Saiyan Survivor, and Vegeta Hits Super Saiyan Before Goku fanfiction is so vast, it easily makes up half what you'll find on AO3 and FF.net. Take Vegeta and give him an arc where he's helping out the U6 Saiyans or whatever, and even if it's only about mediocre it's guaranteed to go over well.

Now, none of that shit has ever interested me but I do think it'd be cool to have a protagonist with clearly defined objectives again. Goku's goal of "become stronger" has gotten to be so vague that things have to happen to him to set arcs in motion. He never drives the action forward. A Vegeta arc looks like a great oppurtunity to have a proactive protagonist again and revisit/reintroduce the qualities that got him over during the Namek stuff. You can even tie in to his emotional growth. Now that he's accepted the terrible things he's done, have him learn that as terrible as that version of him was, that guy also had a lot going for him. Stuff that letting go of made Vegeta a less well rounded person.

The biggest issue I see, is that Dragon Ball's protagonist have been purely reactive since the Saiyan Arc. Not sure what Toyotaro's relationship with Toriyama is like but it's possible DB just isn't able to support a protagonist with his own goals anymore.
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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:26 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:39 pm As long as it’s cohesive then it should work. One of my issues with the Zamasu arc is that while Trunks is clearly the front runner protagonist of the storyline, Zamasu seems to specifically like to single out Goku as the straw that broke the camels back for him to initiate his plans. He personally sought out Goku’s body to steal, killed his family and then rubbed in his face for mockery. Trunks just so happen to be in the timeline he jumped to, in order to get proper practice using his new body to fight.
I think something similar happened at Moro arc as well. Vegeta had a direct connection with the main villain (which also ties in with his main motivation during the arc, which is to atone for his sins), in addition to having a whole training arc specially focused on him (in which he also overcomes weaknesses of his past), and although it had a payoff in the end, it may not have been in the way that the story suggested while building his trajectory in this saga.

Although I don't think it is strictly necessary for him to defeat the main villain (as I said, Moro arc provided a great character arc for Vegeta), it has become a bit of a trend in DBS that the payoff / culmination of his journey in the story is usually made in just 1 chapter (it was like that in FT, ToP and Moro). And while this is not inherently bad, there is always the feeling that more could have been done (and the chances of this conclusion being underwhelming for him are increased)

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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by ABED » Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:38 pm

It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 6:02 pm Now, none of that shit has ever interested me but I do think it'd be cool to have a protagonist with clearly defined objectives again. Goku's goal of "become stronger" has gotten to be so vague that things have to happen to him to set arcs in motion. He never drives the action forward.
Goku was the one that went to the Zenos to ask them to move up the Tournament of Power.
I believe that the idea that Goku must be front and center at almost all times is pretty ingrained in modern Dragon Ball's writing. Maybe even a little too ingrained, to the point where it could hurt the stories they're trying to tell because they have to steer it back to Goku no matter what. (Why it's like that has been debated for pages on end in other threads, so it's probably not necessary to do it again here.) I'd like for Dragon Ball Super to start treading outside the safe zone a little more, and actually daring to let Vegeta do something other than his "losing to the main villain's new power" routine would be a good start, but at the moment, especially after the Moro arc, I don't think anything like that is going to happen. It just feels like playing it safe is far too important.
While I think there's a lot here to agree with, the trick isn't to get him out of the way. He is the main character and I don't get why people seem to think the protagonist of the story should take a back seat. I'm all for Vegeta driving the action but Goku should still have an important part to play.
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Re: Toriyama's previous intention of putting Vegeta in the main role ... which never happened

Post by Kinokima » Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:26 pm

Alruneia wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:38 pm I believe that the idea that Goku must be front and center at almost all times is pretty ingrained in modern Dragon Ball's writing. Maybe even a little too ingrained, to the point where it could hurt the stories they're trying to tell because they have to steer it back to Goku no matter what. (Why it's like that has been debated for pages on end in other threads, so it's probably not necessary to do it again here.) I'd like for Dragon Ball Super to start treading outside the safe zone a little more, and actually daring to let Vegeta do something other than his "losing to the main villain's new power" routine would be a good start, but at the moment, especially after the Moro arc, I don't think anything like that is going to happen. It just feels like playing it safe is far too important.

I don’t necessarily need Vegeta to beat the main villain but I DO hate the whole tease of Vegeta training to get a new power/technique them hyping it up and it only lasting half a chapter just for Goku to get all the glory in the end is annoying.

Now Vegeta’s new technique did do something in the last arc but I still feel they hyped it up a bit too much for what it amounted too. I just don’t want the false hype again. It just becomes too formulaic.

I am fine with Vegeta supporting Goku just make it clear that’s his role from the beginning.

But I am afraid they are already starting the false hype thing with the Hakai training. But we shall see.

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