Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

[Aim]

I guess I just don’t see why Goku needs to have the same voice actor as a child and adult just because Japan did it. How many dubs have actually kept Goku’s VA the same as a child and adult besides the Japanese dub?

Because the jump from Goku as a child to adult wasn’t a drastic change, it got deeper but it was still Goku.

And that's a perfectly valid choice on Toei's part, nothing wrong with it...but that's not necessarily the way it needed to be. That's just the route that Toei decided to go. There was nothing preventing them from casting an older-sounding male voice actor to play Goku who could, even if he sounded older, still act the part well and embody the spirit of what Nozawa had established.

I personally highly doubt that, a voice too deep and you get the dub effect and it begins to really start to feel like a high school student decided to can the VA and replace her with a man for the sake of it. Then again I could be wrong. I wonder if it was Toriyama having a say in having Nozawa stay? I dunno, I hope they at least try and keep Nozawa’s voice around for as long as possible and then later start training Identity to be a successor if he wants.

I guess my greatest fear is seeing the authors characters and world begin to lose what it once was. It’s already kind of happening with heroes, some of those characters do not look at all like DB. I imagine Toriyama probably isn’t happy but there’s not much he can do considering there’s people at the top who also own the licenses.

[jjgp1112]

I guess I just don’t see why Goku needs to have the same voice actor as a child and adult just because Japan did it. How many dubs have actually kept Goku’s VA the same as a child and adult besides the Japanese dub?

Because the jump from Goku as a child to adult wasn’t a drastic change, it got deeper but it was still Goku.

I’d argue there’s probably only one variant of Goku that’s properly captured the spirit out there.

The real answer is that Toei just didn't want to change the marketable voice that Goku already had for 3 years and 130 episodes. The end.

When even Bardock and adult Gohan, characters who couldn't be any more different from 23rd TB Goku, get the same voice it's obvious what's actually going on. Hell, Mayumi Tanaka remained the voice for Krillin after he grew up too. See a pattern here?

It's not necessary to keep the same voice for Goku at all.

[MasenkoHA]

It's kinda cool that the same actor plays the character from start to finish in the Japanese version, but I agree, it is by no means a necessity.

I think it works because Nozawa is a good actor and because she voiced Goku for 3 years before he became an adult so she IS Goku’s voice in Japan. We’re just never going to get that here. They absolutely could have replaced her though with an adult male actor and then give her the role of Gohan and then the role of Goten when Gohan got older. That’s what the Cloverway/Intertrack dub ended up doing with Laura Torres

As for the other dubs, the French dub kept the same voice actress who played him as a child when he became an adult....for Dragon Ball. For DBZ and onward, he was recast with an adult male voice actor.

That reminds me, something I liked that Blue Water did is they had different actors playing older Goku. One actor voiced Adult Goku in GT and a much younger male actor voiced Goku as a young adult in Dragon Ball which I think worked a bit better than Sean Schemmel just slightly raising the pitch in his voice

[dragonmagico]

I think it works because Nozawa is a good actor and because she voiced Goku for 3 years before he became an adult so she IS Goku’s voice in Japan. We’re just never going to get that here. They absolutely could have replaced her though with an adult male actor and then give her the role of Gohan and then the role of Goten when Gohan got older. That’s what the Cloverway/Intertrack dub ended up doing with Laura Torres

Heck, its even happened in american/canadian db dub. Saffron Henderson, BLT goku and ocean gohan. Worked pretty well for those dubs, short lived as they sadly were. And if another company ever re-dubbed dragon ball they could do the same but with funi's dub being complete, even if they were to lose the rights I cant see another company spending the money on a redub when most of the dub fanbase doesnt want a new dub and the people that really care about accuracy go japanese regardless of the anime anyway

[WittyUsername]

There’s no reason Goku needs to have the same voice as a child and an adult. Just because that’s what the Japanese version did doesn’t mean that’s what the dub has to do.

[TheBlackPaladin]

The real answer is that Toei just didn't want to change the marketable voice that Goku already had for 3 years and 130 episodes. The end.

Precisely.

I've often heard people say that they had Goku keep the same voice actor because the producers "Always wanted him to sound somewhat like a child." Well, that explanation only works with Goku. It doesn't work with Mayumi Tanaka as Kuririn. Nor Takeshi Kusao as Trunks (who at first voiced him with a normal teenage-sounding voice and then voiced Trunks as a kid afterwords with a cartoony-sounding kid voice). It doesn't even work with Masako Nozawa as Gohan, since he is decidedly far more mature and intelligent than his father ever was. The only explanation that's consistent across the board for why all the characters kept their first actor from start to finish is because Toei didn't want their primary audience--which is to say, children--to have to get used to "new" voices after they were already used the first voices for so long.

And hey, not knockin' Masako Nozawa here, I love her performance. I just don't think there's much of an in-universe explanation for why she--and all the other voice actors in the Japanese cast--kept their original voice actors from start to finish, regardless of which stage of life their characters were in.

[Dragon Ball Ireland]

Nancy Cartwright voiced teenage Bart in The Simpsons, and Tara Strong voiced old age Omi in Xiaolin Showdown. I could see an argument for the former still being quite child-like for his age, but the latter showed some level of maturity from what we saw of him. It's not just for business reasons, it is natural and makes perfect sense for the same actor to voice a character both as a child and in adulthood if they have the talent to do it as older voices are always a variation of the vocal range someone has. My voice is noticeably lower tan when I was a child, but I can compare what I sounded like then vs now and see a natural maturation of the same voice. If anything it would be a new actor that would have an uphill battle, and while it wouldn't be impossible, TOEI definitely would have had a challenge finding a suitable recast for 23rd Tenkaichi Goku.

[MasenkoHA]

If anything it would be a new actor that would have an uphill battle, and while it wouldn't be impossible, TOEI definitely would have had a challenge finding a suitable recast for 23rd Tenkaichi Goku.

On the other hand, you do have Laurie Steele’s Krillin who believably sounds like someone who would grow up to be Sonny Strait’s Krillin. Something that I’m pretty sure was a happy accident so it’s doable.

I don’t think anyone is knocking Nozawa’s adult Goku, just that it wasn’t necessary for any reason other than “well she’s already voicing Goku” just like kid Trunks being voiced by a grown man doing his best little kid impression was “because he already voiced Future Trunks”

But the main point is a theoretical never going to happen anyways Englisb redub shouldn’t have the same actor voice Goku as a child and as an adult just because “that’s how Japan did it”

[Super Sonic]

Even Toei does age changing with voices. Recall hearing the Japanese version of Digimon season 2 had T.K. voiced by a man while he was voiced by a woman in season 1, while Tai and Izzy's voice actresses didn't change.

[WittyUsername]

I’m gonna be frank, I can’t think of an actual artistic reason why Goku would need to keep the same voice actor as both a child and an adult. I’m not saying there’s no actor or actress who could pull that off, but I don’t see why it should be something that dubbers ought to strive for. If kids are able to cope with Goku becoming an adult, they should have no problem getting used to him having a different voice.

Obviously, keeping Masako Nozawa on as Goku worked great for Toei, but they did that same thing with pretty much every Dragon Ball character, apart from Piccolo Jr. Kid Trunks is voiced by the same actor as Future Trunks, Vegeta’s kid self is voiced by the same actor as his adult self, etc. For Toei, it’s more a matter of convenience than anything else. Besides, that’s not necessary to produce a faithful dub.

[Aim]

The real answer is that Toei just didn't want to change the marketable voice that Goku already had for 3 years and 130 episodes. The end.

There is no real answer to what I said, you’re misunderstanding. Someone asked why it should be kept and I argued the jump from kid to adult while not drastic, anyone watching will hear a deeper tone, which actually sounds fine and is doable.

When even Bardock and adult Gohan, characters who couldn't be any more different from 23rd TB Goku, get the same voice it's obvious what's actually going on. Hell, Mayumi Tanaka remained the voice for Krillin after he grew up too. See a pattern here?

It's not necessary to keep the same voice for Goku at all.

Again, I don’t think you’ve read enough here, Gohan’s voice is different and you can actually hear it, especially when he speaks he’s much more fluent in his language. Barduck is definitely more serious and has a stronger tone than Son.

funi's dub being complete, even if they were to lose the rights I cant see another company spending the money on a redub when most of the dub fanbase doesnt want a new dub and the people that really care about accuracy go japanese regardless of the anime anyway

Funi didn’t go with a recast for Kai because they don’t care enough to do it properly, if we have another situation one day where there is a reboot and funi for whatever reason isn’t around, while unlikely there’s still a chance we get a far superior dub than what we have already. Most of the “fan base” you speak of is just loud and nothing else, Funi could have easily have told them to fuck off (rightfully so, they are a cancer growing on the franchise) and continued with proper attack names and such. People before were arguing “people don’t care” and now it’s another weak argument. What you see is quite frankly that people who constantly defend the dub don’t like it that a woman voices Goku, and overall they hate the original voices with a passion. Those people should be left behind, they have their Z dub, and they’ve managed to essentially fuck up another couple decades of eng DB.

There’s no reason Goku needs to have the same voice as a child and an adult. Just because that’s what the Japanese version did doesn’t mean that’s what the dub has to do.

Just because the Japanese had Nozawa do Black doesn’t mean the dub has to do it, just because Son Goku isn’t “Zero” doesn’t mean it can’t be changed to that.

Honestly, everyone I’ve spoken to who has either seen it from DB into Z or started with Z first even, or people who haven’t seen DB and they are shown the comparison between the adult and kid Son Goku, they all hear a difference. However this is purely anecdotal, though it just seems to me that people want Goku with a stereotypical manly voice like what we have in the dub now. Each to their own, but at the same time they shouldn’t dictate future dubs.

Nancy Cartwright voiced teenage Bart in The Simpsons, and Tara Strong voiced old age Omi in Xiaolin Showdown. I could see an argument for the former still being quite child-like for his age, but the latter showed some level of maturity from what we saw of him. It's not just for business reasons, it is natural and makes perfect sense for the same actor to voice a character both as a child and in adulthood if they have the talent to do it as older voices are always a variation of the vocal range someone has. My voice is noticeably lower tan when I was a child, but I can compare what I sounded like then vs now and see a natural maturation of the same voice. If anything it would be a new actor that would have an uphill battle, and while it wouldn't be impossible, TOEI definitely would have had a challenge finding a suitable recast for 23rd Tenkaichi Goku.

Precisely so, Nozawa is able to do multiple characters and while making it clear they are related to one another, they are at the same time different. Replacing a VA just because the character enters adult hood for the sake of it is incredibly stupid.

[jjgp1112]

Bro, nobody here is saying that there isn't a DIFFERENCE between Nozawa's various performance...we're saying it's not NECESSARY. It's not necessary to have the same actress play Goku from child to adult and play all but one of his male family members, including a character we never even saw as a child. Toei did it out of convenience, not an artistic decision - you can get Goku, or any of the other characters in any anime who had their child actors grandfathered in, right without following what the Japanese company did out of, let's be frank, laziness.

[TheBlackPaladin]

...you can get Goku, or any of the other characters in any anime who had their child actors grandfathered in, right without following what the Japanese company did out of, let's be frank, laziness.

And also possible financial convenience. I don't know if voice actors in Japan can necessarily negotiate a higher rate based on playing more than one character in the same show. Part of me believes they can, but on the other hand, Nozawa once said in an interview that she found out she was playing Gohan when she walked into the studio for the first recording of DBZ and simply saw her name next to Gohan on the cast list.

In (union) North American animation agreements, voice actors can be hired to do voices for two characters with no increase in pay. It's only with three or more characters that pay bumps kick in. Maybe there's something similar in Japan.

[WittyUsername]

There’s no reason Goku needs to have the same voice as a child and an adult. Just because that’s what the Japanese version did doesn’t mean that’s what the dub has to do.

Just because the Japanese had Nozawa do Black doesn’t mean the dub has to do it, just because Son Goku isn’t “Zero” doesn’t mean it can’t be changed to that.

Honestly, everyone I’ve spoken to who has either seen it from DB into Z or started with Z first even, or people who haven’t seen DB and they are shown the comparison between the adult and kid Son Goku, they all hear a difference. However this is purely anecdotal, though it just seems to me that people want Goku with a stereotypical manly voice like what we have in the dub now. Each to their own, but at the same time they shouldn’t dictate future dubs.

As far as Black is concerned, that character is literally a bad guy who swapped bodies with Goku, so it makes perfect sense for him to be voiced by the same person as Goku. The alternative would’ve been to give him Zamasu’s voice, which would’ve ruined the twist. Plus, hearing Goku speak with a distinctly calm and sinister voice is part of what works about the character.

Aside from that, I didn’t say that there’s no difference between Nozawa’s child voices and her adult voices. There certainly is. Masako Nozawa is a skilled actress who has good range. I would never try to suggest that she doesn’t. I’m merely saying that following the precedent set by her is not necessary, and I don’t know of many English speaking voice actresses who could convincingly pull that off anyway.

Goku doesn’t need to have a “stereotypical manly voice,” but with the exception of his voice in the AB Groupe dub, I’d argue that most dub Goku voices don’t really sound “stereotypically manly” anyway.

[Cure Dragon 255]

Even Toei does age changing with voices. Recall hearing the Japanese version of Digimon season 2 had T.K. voiced by a man while he was voiced by a woman in season 1, while Tai and Izzy's voice actresses didn't change.

I know I share this a lot but there is a reason Hiroko Konishi got replaced as Japanese TK.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/intere ... ry/.143311

[Aim]

As far as Black is concerned, that character is literally a bad guy who swapped bodies with Goku, so it makes perfect sense for him to be voiced by the same person as Goku. The alternative would’ve been to give him Zamasu’s voice, which would’ve ruined the twist. Plus, hearing Goku speak with a distinctly calm and sinister voice is part of what works about the character.

You can easily say the same thing with Son Goku, his voice is meant to be distinct and not so different from when he was a child, because even though he’s grown up, HE is still a child.

and I don’t know of many English speaking voice actresses who could convincingly pull that off anyway.

It’s because no one has bothered to look, out of the billions of people on Earth there’s bound to be one that can pull it off, and they may already be in the industry, some of those VA’s have insane vocal capacities.

Goku doesn’t need to have a “stereotypical manly voice,” but with the exception of his voice in the AB Groupe dub, I’d argue that most dub Goku voices don’t really sound “stereotypically manly” anyway.

The funimation dub especially with Super has had a lot of fun doing that with Goku’s character, which makes everything extremely when then you have parts where they actually try to stick to his character.

Toei did it out of convenience, not an artistic decision - you can get Goku, or any of the other characters in any anime who had their child actors grandfathered in, right without following what the Japanese company did out of, let's be frank, laziness.

Do you have any kind of quote or source that even gives a little bit of credence to this idea? If anything I’d argue it was more so because it just was a better fit, Nozawa doing those different voices while also showing they are closely related is fantastic, this seems more so an artistic choice rather than a marketing one. Not to even mention Toriyama’s utmost praise for Nozawa.

[Aim]

As far as Black is concerned, that character is literally a bad guy who swapped bodies with Goku, so it makes perfect sense for him to be voiced by the same person as Goku. The alternative would’ve been to give him Zamasu’s voice, which would’ve ruined the twist. Plus, hearing Goku speak with a distinctly calm and sinister voice is part of what works about the character.

You can easily say the same thing with Son Goku, his voice is meant to be distinct and not so different from when he was a child, because even though he’s grown up, HE is still a child.

and I don’t know of many English speaking voice actresses who could convincingly pull that off anyway.

It’s because no one has bothered to look, out of the billions of people on Earth there’s bound to be one that can pull it off, and they may already be in the industry, some of those VA’s have insane vocal capacities.

Goku doesn’t need to have a “stereotypical manly voice,” but with the exception of his voice in the AB Groupe dub, I’d argue that most dub Goku voices don’t really sound “stereotypically manly” anyway.

The funimation dub especially with Super has had a lot of fun doing that with Goku’s character, which makes everything extremely when then you have parts where they actually try to stick to his character.

Toei did it out of convenience, not an artistic decision - you can get Goku, or any of the other characters in any anime who had their child actors grandfathered in, right without following what the Japanese company did out of, let's be frank, laziness.

Do you have any kind of quote or source that even gives a little bit of credence to this idea? If anything I’d argue it was more so because it just was a better fit, Nozawa doing those different voices while also showing they are closely related is fantastic, this seems more so an artistic choice rather than a marketing one. Not to even mention Toriyama’s utmost praise for Nozawa.

[MyVisionity]

You can easily say the same thing with Son Goku, his voice is meant to be distinct and not so different from when he was a child, because even though he’s grown up, HE is still a child.

While I agree that Goku has a distinctive voice and would like to see English VAs try and carry over into Adult Goku, I disagree that Goku is "still a child" after he grows up. He doesn't change in many ways and has some childlike qualities about him, but he does mature in various aspects and becomes an adult.

[jjgp1112]

Do you have any kind of quote or source that even gives a little bit of credence to this idea? If anything I’d argue it was more so because it just was a better fit, Nozawa doing those different voices while also showing they are closely related is fantastic, this seems more so an artistic choice rather than a marketing one. Not to even mention Toriyama’s utmost praise for Nozawa.

I don't have a source...this is literally just my conjecture based on a pretty clear track record. Again, why do Krillin, Gohan, and Goten, characters who aren't kids at heart, have the same voice actress from when they were kids? Why does Kid Trunks, who is definitely not mature for his age, have the same voice actor as his adult self? Why does Bardock, a character who couldn't be the furthest thing from childish, have Nozawa's voice too?

Because it's convenient! Why change the voice when you already have an established voice you've been using. And in Bardock's case - hey, he looks like Goku and is his father, so let's give him Goku's voice. Gohan and Goku were kid-appeal Kid Goku replacements. That "his inner child" stuff is just a cobbled up explanation that does not hold up to scrutiny.

[Android 50]

yeeea you can't really pull off what japan did in english. a woman voicing what looks like adult goku in a english dub would just come off incredibly jarring.