Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

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Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Aim » Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:14 am

I’ve been wondering, would it ever be possible for a company to gain another license from Toei or whoever in order to produce another dub for a section of countries? I ask because I know Ocean did Kai, though it wasn’t released. I’d really like to see that one day, where Dragon Ball is dubbed from the very beginning, trying to seek out VA’s that are capable of doing very close if not spot on impressions of the original characters, even more, I want to see a Son Goku grow up and retain his VA, in the Japanese Masako did change her voice to fit the late teen, I’d love to see this as well in an English dub. It would also be great not to have the constant line changes and to finally see proper name translations or doing the appropriate thing by keeping them.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by kei17 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:18 am

If you were a billionaire and able to pay all the costs by yourself, it'd be 100% possible.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:30 am

The short answer is no.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:41 am

It would be possible, but it's highly doubtful anyone would ever make such an investment, especially when the majority of the English speaking fandom are happy with their dubs, and ultimately no dub will ever please everyone.

For all the hate the Z dub gets it's still very well liked and the main selling point for all the North American, UK and Australian home releases. Likewise most of the fans who wanted Kai in English are happy with Funimation's dub, some (like me) would still like to see Ocean's version, but sadly we're in the minority.

If Ocean Kai ever comes out it will probably do decently but naturally not everyone would be happy with it. Even with the things we've heard about the correct pronunciations, Goku being cast to sound closer to the Japanese version, etc it would still divide fans somewhat, and that's ok, I welcome debate over which dub is better as long as they are civil and everyone's opinions are respected, but in terms of either dub being universally accepted, that will never happen.

At the end of the day, art is subjective, and everyone should enjoy what they enjoy and not worry what anyone else says.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by coola » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:10 am

Not as long as Funimation holds rights to it.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:16 am

coola wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:10 am Not as long as Funimation holds rights to it.
Realistically, even if Funimation lost the rights another company that picked up the license would still probably just use Funimation’s dub.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:27 am

It is possible to make a truly faithful dub. Hell, the Pioneer dubs of the first three Z movies to me represent the direction the main dub should have gone in. Those IMO are the closest to faithful that English DBZ ever got (and half of it is because they simply kept the original score).

It's totally possible to make a dub like that again. There's just no will to make it (from anyone that matters) and no demand from the broader North American fandom.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Tue Apr 13, 2021 12:36 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:16 am
coola wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 11:10 am Not as long as Funimation holds rights to it.
Realistically, even if Funimation lost the rights another company that picked up the license would still probably just use Funimation’s dub.
Yup, and for new content they would outsource to Okraton, so the cast would remain the same, and likely the direction too.

Personally my ideal dub would contain a mix of both the Texas and Vancouver cast.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by KPike87 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:37 pm

As long is the Dragon Ball franchise is one of the most financially profitable franchises ever, Funi will hold onto it with a death grip. They themselves would never redub the shows, they're too proud and a lot of the Toonami kids would make an outcry over it. Even despite all of that, if it were to happen, that small window of time when Kai was dubbed where they actually made a great script is gone. The way they dub shows now is different from a decade ago, and they're generally less accurate now, to say the least.

So even if the impossible were to happen, I'd say keep your expectations modest.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:23 pm

If you don't mind me asking, why do you think those things would lead to a more "faithful" dub? Not to assume too much, but no one here is a Japanese kid from the late 80s. None of the puns or references are likely to mean anything to us. Not unless we have a translators note to help us follow along.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by slifer875 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm

This topic is really strange from my point of view, since we have a fairly faithful dub in latinamerica (like 95% faithful) including most of the names, tecniques, music, openings/endings and insert songs from the original japanese version, from the beggining of dragon ball to dragon ball GT.

We already have a "perfect" dub, the problem was that none of the video games were dubbed in spanish, and this is how the latin america fandom got introduced to the english dub of dragon ball, some voices sounded weird and even "out of character" like north kai, frieza, buu and yamcha, and i didn't like how deep and forced picoloo voice sounded but as for goku, vegeta and bulma they sounded fine.

The problem with the english dubs were the infamous mistranslations, the falcouner score replacing the original music, the english intro and ending, all of these alterations changes the tone of the series, which is why the english fandom has the biggest disconnect betwen what they want dragon ball to be and what it actually is.
I don't consider it a good dub by any means, but i heard the english kai dub fixes most of the problems already, is that dub of kai not faithful? did they still changed some things?

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:49 pm

slifer875 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm , but i heard the english kai dub fixes most of the problems already, is that dub of kai not faithful? did they still changed some things?
They changed some thing but not too terribly bad. Mostly they weren’t 100 percent committed to completely letting the style of the Z dub go so we still have the incorrect pronunciation of Saiyan , the awkward refusal to use the word ki (despite the video games using the word ki meaning the most hardcore Funi dub fans at leave have some vague understanding of ki as it pertains to Dragon Ball and FUNimation has zero excuse to not have the characters say ki) and things like that.


If the Funi Z dub is a D- than the Kai dub is a solid B.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Yuli Ban » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:18 pm

Not until we have AI that can perfectly replicate voices and translate things while retaining meaning.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:34 pm

If by a “true faithful dub” you mean a perfect wall to wall representation of the Japanese version, then probably not. There are usually some inevitable liberties that would be made when translating something with a distinctly Eastern feel for a Western audience. Japanese and English are also two pretty different languages, and when you combine that with the issue of lip flaps, it’s inevitable that some things would get lost in translation.

To be clear, this isn’t an endorsement of each and every change FUNimation has made with the series. All I’m saying is that if people are looking for an English dub that stays completely true to the Japanese version, and takes practically no liberties whatsoever, then you’re bound to be disappointed.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:42 pm

I mean, i'd really like to see better more accurate dubs of DB/Z/GT and the majority of the old movies come eventually but i realize that isn't likely to happen soon if ever as long as FUNimation still has the rights to the franchise lock, stock and barrel. Those that wanted a more faithful redubbed version of Z got it for the most part with Kai, even though it is indeed flawed in it's own ways it's still a significant enough improvement for me to recommend it over the old dumpster fire Z dub. The former is the closest we'll probably ever see to a true faithful dub from FUNi. I too would like better dubs of OG DB and especially GT because the ones from the early 2000's aren't the best and really show their age, though with that said i'm not expecting them to given how they tend to treat the former two as lesser series compared to DBZ.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Super Sonic » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:16 pm

Aim wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:14 am I’d really like to see that one day, where Dragon Ball is dubbed from the very beginning, trying to seek out VA’s that are capable of doing very close if not spot on impressions of the original characters,
A thing with acting, outside legacy characters like Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse and their buddies, imitating someone isn't always looked at as a great thing in cartoons and voice work. Do you want every single Batman to sound like Mr. Conroy? Heck, heard Charles Martinet got the part of Mario as he didn't try to imitate Captain Lou's take. Also a question to guys here who English isn't their native tongue. In your dubs of American cartoons, do the actors sound like the English speaking actor or different a little or a lot?

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:33 pm

Yeah it's possible, but I'm not expecting anything like that until maybe around the end of the century. Maybe by then we might see a new dub by a new company.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:08 pm

Super Sonic wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:16 pm Also a question to guys here who English isn't their native tongue. In your dubs of American cartoons, do the actors sound like the English speaking actor or different a little or a lot?
Not really. Voice actors might add a little from their English counterparts (Marge Simpson's voice actress always added a bit of throatiness to her voice from what I remember. Bugs Bunny's VO played up the verbal tic) but for the most part they just sound like Spanish versions of the character. Or at least what you'd think they'd sound like by just looking at them.
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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by Aim » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:43 pm

Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:41 am It would be possible, but it's highly doubtful anyone would ever make such an investment, especially when the majority of the English speaking fandom are happy with their dubs, and ultimately no dub will ever please everyone.
That’s not the goal, there’s going to be another chance someday to gain new fans, funimation failed to capture Dragon Ball properly as it progressed from Kai, which has lead to what should have been a generation of new fans that weren’t exposed to absolutely unnecessary line and character nuance changes.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:41 am For all the hate the Z dub gets it's still very well liked and the main selling point for all the North American, UK and Australian home releases. Likewise most of the fans who wanted Kai in English are happy with Funimation's dub, some (like me) would still like to see Ocean's version, but sadly we're in the minority.

It’s unfair to say “with all the hate the z dub gets”, the DB fandom is dominated by people who have now mainly watched that, and that dub gets what it deserves. I love it, but at the same time I acknowledge that isn’t what Dragon Ball is and there’s nothing wrong with pointing that out.
Dragon Ball Ireland wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:41 am If Ocean Kai ever comes out it will probably do decently but naturally not everyone would be happy with it. Even with the things we've heard about the correct pronunciations, Goku being cast to sound closer to the Japanese version, etc it would still divide fans somewhat, and that's ok, I welcome debate over which dub is better as long as they are civil and everyone's opinions are respected, but in terms of either dub being universally accepted, that will never happen.

At the end of the day, art is subjective, and everyone should enjoy what they enjoy and not worry what anyone else says.

When you have a dub that takes so many liberties, I think it’s safe to say it’s quite disrespectful to suggest it’s above the original, especially with all of the absolute confusion it’s caused. Like I’ve said, I grew up with the dub, loved it for many years until I discovered what I saw was meant to be basically the closest thing to the authors vision.
KPike87 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 3:37 pm As long is the Dragon Ball franchise is one of the most financially profitable franchises ever, Funi will hold onto it with a death grip. They themselves would never redub the shows, they're too proud and a lot of the Toonami kids would make an outcry over it. Even despite all of that, if it were to happen, that small window of time when Kai was dubbed where they actually made a great script is gone. The way they dub shows now is different from a decade ago, and they're generally less accurate now, to say the least.

So even if the impossible were to happen, I'd say keep your expectations modest.
This is what I mean, trash those fans, they don’t need to bastardize Dragon ball for another decade, they have their old Z dub, etc, there’s no reason to cave in to a bunch of dip shits who’s only arguments consist of “I WANT MY GOKU VOICED BY A MAN 👨”.

Even Sean Schemmel has spoken on this albeit in a different way to what I have.
It_Is_Ayna_You_Flips wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:23 pm If you don't mind me asking, why do you think those things would lead to a more "faithful" dub? Not to assume too much, but no one here is a Japanese kid from the late 80s. None of the puns or references are likely to mean anything to us. Not unless we have a translators note to help us follow along.
From what I remember there’s rarely that many jokes that only 80s kids from Japan would understand.

But to answer your question, I think the most faithful way to produce a DB dub would be to try capture the spirit and the character nuances as close as possible to the original while only making necessary changes. I do think it’s possible, Dragon Ball isn’t like Dr. Slump in that it’s that hard to understand or translate. Keep in mind the current dub as Ajay has even pointed out goes out of its way to change the nuances of characters personalities.
slifer875 wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 4:38 pm This topic is really strange from my point of view, since we have a fairly faithful dub in latinamerica (like 95% faithful) including most of the names, tecniques, music, openings/endings and insert songs from the original japanese version, from the beggining of dragon ball to dragon ball GT.

We already have a "perfect" dub, the problem was that none of the video games were dubbed in spanish, and this is how the latin america fandom got introduced to the english dub of dragon ball, some voices sounded weird and even "out of character" like north kai, frieza, buu and yamcha, and i didn't like how deep and forced picoloo voice sounded but as for goku, vegeta and bulma they sounded fine.

The problem with the english dubs were the infamous mistranslations, the falcouner score replacing the original music, the english intro and ending, all of these alterations changes the tone of the series, which is why the english fandom has the biggest disconnect betwen what they want dragon ball to be and what it actually is.
I don't consider it a good dub by any means, but i heard the english kai dub fixes most of the problems already, is that dub of kai not faithful? did they still changed some things?
The dub of Kai was good in the beginning, however something happened and they caved in and from there on has been a complete utter embarrassment when it came to dubbing series. Funimation as I’ve said consistently changes things that eventually lead to certain characters coming off as strange and stiff.

I’ve always wondered why the games and such were never also dubbed in Spanish etc. I have heard though the dub you have got is great though, so I’m happy for you 🥲.
WittyUsername wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:34 pm If by a “true faithful dub” you mean a perfect wall to wall representation of the Japanese version, then probably not. There are usually some inevitable liberties that would be made when translating something with a distinctly Eastern feel for a Western audience. Japanese and English are also two pretty different languages, and when you combine that with the issue of lip flaps, it’s inevitable that some things would get lost in translation.

To be clear, this isn’t an endorsement of each and every change FUNimation has made with the series. All I’m saying is that if people are looking for an English dub that stays completely true to the Japanese version, and takes practically no liberties whatsoever, then you’re bound to be disappointed.
Please do not take this the wrong way, but this feels like a straw man, I know liberties have to be taken in certain scenarios, however that is what in my opinion leads to a faithful dub anyway, otherwise it won’t make sense. So no, it’s not to be 1 to 1, but to actually be, feel, like the actual “English Dragon Ball”.
Super Sonic wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 8:16 pm
Aim wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 5:14 am I’d really like to see that one day, where Dragon Ball is dubbed from the very beginning, trying to seek out VA’s that are capable of doing very close if not spot on impressions of the original characters,
A thing with acting, outside legacy characters like Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse and their buddies, imitating someone isn't always looked at as a great thing in cartoons and voice work. Do you want every single Batman to sound like Mr. Conroy? Heck, heard Charles Martinet got the part of Mario as he didn't try to imitate Captain Lou's take. Also a question to guys here who English isn't their native tongue. In your dubs of American cartoons, do the actors sound like the English speaking actor or different a little or a lot?
I don’t think the examples you gave are comparable, Dragon Ball has had basically one author who’s known for the entire Dragon Universe, being Toriyama, who has acknowledged Nozawa as Goku, he even said he couldn’t get her voice out his head when drawing Goku, makes sense considering he picked her. Western shows you listed barely have a canon and consistency compared to Dragon Ball. The closest comparison I can give you is the Simpsons, when Bart and Lisa are seen grown up usually their old voices are kept but slightly changed, this is what happened to Goku. Anyway, you say it won’t work but it’s never been done nor attempted, I feel like all these comparisons are useless and only serve to point out the obvious, a faithful dub isn’t always exact translations because then nothing flows or makes sense.

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Re: Would a “true” faithful dub ever be possible?

Post by WittyUsername » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:38 pm

Aim wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:43 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:34 pm If by a “true faithful dub” you mean a perfect wall to wall representation of the Japanese version, then probably not. There are usually some inevitable liberties that would be made when translating something with a distinctly Eastern feel for a Western audience. Japanese and English are also two pretty different languages, and when you combine that with the issue of lip flaps, it’s inevitable that some things would get lost in translation.

To be clear, this isn’t an endorsement of each and every change FUNimation has made with the series. All I’m saying is that if people are looking for an English dub that stays completely true to the Japanese version, and takes practically no liberties whatsoever, then you’re bound to be disappointed.
Please do not take this the wrong way, but this feels like a straw man, I know liberties have to be taken in certain scenarios, however that is what in my opinion leads to a faithful dub anyway, otherwise it won’t make sense. So no, it’s not to be 1 to 1, but to actually be, feel, like the actual “English Dragon Ball”.
I’m not trying to strawman. I was just trying to understand what you meant by “true faithful dub.”

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