Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
It's not like I read 99% of ABED's posts, either.
Anyway, I have nearly 15,000 posts on this forum and have been a member since I was a teenage girl. I've got opinions driven by a lifetime of experience. But hey, let's question why the woman offering basic, common sense criticism is a Dragon Ball fan.
Anyway, I have nearly 15,000 posts on this forum and have been a member since I was a teenage girl. I've got opinions driven by a lifetime of experience. But hey, let's question why the woman offering basic, common sense criticism is a Dragon Ball fan.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
In the manga I don't see any problem in DBS, Toyotaro seems to be doing a good job. Toei on the other hand, they really should improve since their writing is pathetic at times.
Toei is worse than Toyotaro and Toriyama by a lot.
Toei is worse than Toyotaro and Toriyama by a lot.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Criticizing a series you're a fan of is not much different than criticizing a sports team you follow when you feel they're not performing as well as they could. Maybe it's annoying to some, but it doesn't make that person less of a fan. Fan groups aren't meant to be echo chambers of constant positivity (or constant negativity, which I haven't seen here) about every aspect of a series. I've been in groups like that before, and they don't really last. Idk that's it's fair to take a few critical posts from a person to make a blanket asumption that they're not a fan.
Anyway, I noticed the (now banned) OP mentioned physical attractiveness as well. Well, I like Bulma better as a character and I find her more attractive. If we're factoring in Future Bulma, that's a testament to show how good of a person she really is, as she built the time machine for Trunks to change the future. All of her shallow traits went out the window when she lost all of her friends and family.
Anyway, I noticed the (now banned) OP mentioned physical attractiveness as well. Well, I like Bulma better as a character and I find her more attractive. If we're factoring in Future Bulma, that's a testament to show how good of a person she really is, as she built the time machine for Trunks to change the future. All of her shallow traits went out the window when she lost all of her friends and family.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
This is a strawman argument. I'm not asking for members to never be critical. Let's just get that clear right off the bat. All I ask is for people who are fans to share what they enjoy as well. I would tell anyone who is a fan of a sports team that if all they do is show negativity towards the team, they don't actually enjoy it.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
That's bs.Tai Lung wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:40 pm
is the excuse that she has always had since z ....
The argument of chichi training to goten is irrelevant ... since someone as weak as her is not able to teach her much ..
goten didn't even know how to fly
because from the battle with cell ... and the subsequent one with buu goku realized that he was wrong to trust children to defeat the villain on duty
Chichi let Goten fight with Trunks all the time in Boo saga.
Goten didn't know how to fly but he already knew how to shoot Ki blasts no problem.
Chichi doesn't know bukujutsu so of course she couldn't have taught him that.
My theory as to why she did this was because he reminded her of Goku and she missed Goku but that's just me.
People here seem to forget that End of Series Goten is weak due to him becoming a skirtchaser and that had nothing to do with Chichi.
I don't know if te lazy ass filler that is Super retconned this or whatever but that's the original reason for him being weak. Chichi never forbade Goten from training back in the original series, the only thing she forbade him is from turning into SSJ because she thought he would become a delinquent(same as Gohan). She treated Gohan and Goten very differently, I don't even recall her ever pressuring Goten to study.
As for Goku his thoughts weren't wrong in theory but he underestimated how strong Boo could be(which to be fair back then it was Fat Boo not Super Boo or Kid Boo) and how the fusion of the children would behave. Gotenks(if serious and not toying around) could have beaten Fat Boo especially SSJ3 or even SSJ1 Gotenks but Goku didn't know about Super Boo then.
But in general his thoughts weren't incorrect. He can't be always there to save the Earth's ass and his successors have to do the job he once did. Although of course he approached all this in reckless fashion(hey kids I'm dead so you have to save the world kthxbai) but that's just Goku for you.
That was anime filler. In the manga it wasn't like that at all and Bulma was just making fun of the fat broad and her ugly kids who fought Goten and Trunks.
Toei really butchered Bulma at points too in the Boo saga. She was an old hag by that point sure but not annoying and certainly not insufferable like the anime portrays her.
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
PurestEvil wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:50 amdva_raza wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 10:28 amI did. That wasn't sexy nor fun. It was lame. It's not about her flirting, I'm talking about her whole personality. She just kinda lost something.PurestEvil wrote: ↑Fri Oct 22, 2021 9:50 am
Did you not see that one scene where she was flirting with Zamasu?
Like I said I particularly started to dislike her in Buu saga. She was just insufferable since the tournament. The way she was fighting with Chichi about Vegeta and Trunks being better than Chichi's guys considering Chichi's family actually need the money..just..ugh. She would not have been that way in the earliest sagas, she was actually nice and cool
Firstly, she did that same flirty thing with General Blue.
Secondly, she totally would have started an argument like that. She was almost gonna break ties with Yamcha because he was getting attention from other girls at one point and was irritable when she was at planet namek
I never said she didn't flirt before. I said I am not talking about her flirting when I use the word 'sexy', I was referring to her personality, the way she carried herself, not to how many times she flirts or how big her boobs are
She was a good mix of bitchy but also fun and nice. Now she doesn't come off like that, which is fine, like I said, it makes sense considering she has been living with Vegeta. So yeah, I love Bulma in Z up until the Buu arc. After that not so much. Chi chi I like she just barely has any screentime
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
It’s so weird how the anime somehow portrays the ladies worse than Toriyama in some places...damn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:45 pmThat was anime filler. In the manga it wasn't like that at all and Bulma was just making fun of the fat broad and her ugly kids who fought Goten and Trunks.
Toei really butchered Bulma at points too in the Boo saga. She was an old hag by that point sure but not annoying and certainly not insufferable like the anime portrays her.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Matsui Aya is the only female writer that we know of to have worked on the cartoon series. None of the series directors have been women, either, and only one of the episode directors--Ishitani Megumi--was a woman and that was for the last episode of Super (save for uncredited work as an assistant episode director on various episodes). I don't believe any of the producers have been women, either.PurestEvil wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:23 pmIt’s so weird how the anime somehow portrays the ladies worse than Toriyama in some places...damn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:45 pmThat was anime filler. In the manga it wasn't like that at all and Bulma was just making fun of the fat broad and her ugly kids who fought Goten and Trunks.
Toei really butchered Bulma at points too in the Boo saga. She was an old hag by that point sure but not annoying and certainly not insufferable like the anime portrays her.
This is why it's important to create art aimed at young boys that portrays women as being worthy of respect as peers and fellows in the workplace and friendships.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
And Julie does also share what she enjoys, so what are you actually saying? How is anything I said a strawman argument, when the discussion has gotten to questioning why Dragon Ball fans are on a Dragon Ball forum, or whether a member here is actually a fan or not?ABED wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:10 pm This is a strawman argument. I'm not asking for members to never be critical. Let's just get that clear right off the bat. All I ask is for people who are fans to share what they enjoy as well. I would tell anyone who is a fan of a sports team that if all they do is show negativity towards the team, they don't actually enjoy it.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
chichi lle allowed goten to train for the money ... with gohan too...damn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 6:45 pmThat's bs.Tai Lung wrote: ↑Sat May 15, 2021 8:40 pm
is the excuse that she has always had since z ....
The argument of chichi training to goten is irrelevant ... since someone as weak as her is not able to teach her much ..
goten didn't even know how to fly
because from the battle with cell ... and the subsequent one with buu goku realized that he was wrong to trust children to defeat the villain on duty
Chichi let Goten fight with Trunks all the time in Boo saga.
Goten didn't know how to fly but he already knew how to shoot Ki blasts no problem.
Chichi doesn't know bukujutsu so of course she couldn't have taught him that.
My theory as to why she did this was because he reminded her of Goku and she missed Goku but that's just me.
People here seem to forget that End of Series Goten is weak due to him becoming a skirtchaser and that had nothing to do with Chichi.
I don't know if te lazy ass filler that is Super retconned this or whatever but that's the original reason for him being weak. Chichi never forbade Goten from training back in the original series, the only thing she forbade him is from turning into SSJ because she thought he would become a delinquent(same as Gohan). She treated Gohan and Goten very differently, I don't even recall her ever pressuring Goten to study.
As for Goku his thoughts weren't wrong in theory but he underestimated how strong Boo could be(which to be fair back then it was Fat Boo not Super Boo or Kid Boo) and how the fusion of the children would behave. Gotenks(if serious and not toying around) could have beaten Fat Boo especially SSJ3 or even SSJ1 Gotenks but Goku didn't know about Super Boo then.
But in general his thoughts weren't incorrect. He can't be always there to save the Earth's ass and his successors have to do the job he once did. Although of course he approached all this in reckless fashion(hey kids I'm dead so you have to save the world kthxbai) but that's just Goku for you.
That was anime filler. In the manga it wasn't like that at all and Bulma was just making fun of the fat broad and her ugly kids who fought Goten and Trunks.
Toei really butchered Bulma at points too in the Boo saga. She was an old hag by that point sure but not annoying and certainly not insufferable like the anime portrays her.
in buu arc ... they were all dead and she couldn't do anything
gohan doesn't even train for the 7 years
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Well I haven't. I see a lot of political digressions, criticism, and whole lot of "I wanna see these two fictional cartoon characters screw!"Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 8:10 pmAnd Julie does also share what she enjoys, so what are you actually saying? How is anything I said a strawman argument, when the discussion has gotten to questioning why Dragon Ball fans are on a Dragon Ball forum, or whether a member here is actually a fan or not?ABED wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:10 pm This is a strawman argument. I'm not asking for members to never be critical. Let's just get that clear right off the bat. All I ask is for people who are fans to share what they enjoy as well. I would tell anyone who is a fan of a sports team that if all they do is show negativity towards the team, they don't actually enjoy it.
As for it being a strawman argument, it should be abundantly obvious that I am in no way against being critical of the series on this forum. I also never once so much as implied that we should refrain from it. All I ask is that we also share what we like about the actual series. If you are saying what I'm asking for is to enjoy it uncritically, then yes, that's a strawman argument.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Political digressions and wanting to see characters screw aren't really my forte either, but that doesn't bring into question whether or not someone is a fan. That was how this digression got started, with another member accusing her of hating everyone involved with the series because of a political comment, and you yourself seem to be frustrated with those types of comments in general, so I'm not sure where on Earth you're getting "strawmanning" from.ABED wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:46 pm Well I haven't. I see a lot of political digressions, criticism, and whole lot of "I wanna see these two fictional cartoon characters screw!"
As for it being a strawman argument, it should be abundantly obvious that I am in no way against being critical of the series on this forum. I also never once so much as implied that we should refrain from it. All I ask is that we also share what we like about the actual series. If you are saying what I'm asking for is to enjoy it uncritically, then yes, that's a strawman argument.
It's fine to want more discussions about the actual series itself, but short of someone outright saying "I hate Dragon Ball and everyone involved," I don't think any criticism of the series or politics surrounding it warrants accusing someone of that. Plus I have seen some positive posts/comments from Julie about Super and the new movie, but again, I'm not trying to keep tabs on someone's positive posts to determine whether or not they're a fan. Chances are, unless one is a bot or a troll, they're here because they like Dragon Ball.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
No, she trained Goten before that and allowed him to fight with Trunks all the time.
She would have never allowed Gohan to do the same if he were in the same situation plus she always pressured Gohan to study but never Goten. She always treated Gohan and Goten differently.
Gohan doesn't train because he doesn't like to fight. Toriyama from the beginning created Gohan to be the Anti-Goku by making him studious and scientific as opposed to Goku who just loves to fight and nothing else. He said that in a 2007 interview too.
https://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/his ... -toriyama/
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
It has nothing to do with that.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:38 pm Matsui Aya is the only female writer that we know of to have worked on the cartoon series. None of the series directors have been women, either, and only one of the episode directors--Ishitani Megumi--was a woman and that was for the last episode of Super (save for uncredited work as an assistant episode director on various episodes). I don't believe any of the producers have been women, either.
The anime staff had very little to work with from the manga and they had to make sure the anime doesn't catch up to the manga so they just often regurgitated the little characterization that was from the manga over and over for the filler and exaggerated it to the umpteenth degree.
Sometimes they put in some sweet Chichi filler scenes in some cases and even some weirdly romantic ones which AT would probably never approve of.
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
No, They played ...super michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Not sure what number one has to do with them not needing to train, Goten and Trunks were both allowed to train during peace time in the Buu Saga. They were training before they even knew about the money, they trained when no money was involved. Should have continued that way in DBS.
Because chichi has never liked fights
in the epilogue they didn't show getting anywheresuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Goten and Trunks training = bigger gain than Goku and Vegeta. Gotenks with training would surpass Goku Black but they are given 0 chance. They have huge potential..
before that he didn't trained with himsuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Vegeta didn't forbid Trunks from training with him just because he got hurt, Vegeta trained with him for the month before the tournament in the Gravity Chamber...
and Vegeta tells him .. that he will never bear that gravity and does not know that he can transformsuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Chapter 424 page 2 = Gohan asked about Trunks and Bulma says that Trunks is training with Vegeta. Bulma says that he wants to make Trunks stronger than Gohan and they should be in the gym and teach him. In Page 3 we see Trunks all sweating from training..
she is weak little or nothing will teach her ..because the manga doesn't show thissuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Chapter 424 page 4 = Vegeta tells Gohan to don't ever stop training.
super michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Chapter 427 Page 12 = Gohan wanted to skip school all for the intention of training, there is no hint that Gohan trained before he knew about the tournament.
Chapter 430 Page 14 = We see Goten and Gohan training hard in their Super Saiyan form.
Chapter 431 = Page 1-4 = We see everyone training hard for the tournament.
That is all the evidence. I have given you the chapter number and page number.
Trunks was training before Videl found out Gohan was Great Saiyanman, Goten was training while Gohan was studying in school.
.
https://readmanganato.com/manga-me955161/chapter-430
Vegeta never trained much with him .. again he didn't even know what his true power was.
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
is said ... but never shown ... We don't even know what she teach him ... because goten and chichi have an abysmal difference in powerdamn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:17 pmNo, she trained Goten before that and allowed him to fight with Trunks all the time.
She would have never allowed Gohan to do the same if he were in the same situation plus she always pressured Gohan to study but never Goten. She always treated Gohan and Goten differently.
Gohan doesn't train because he doesn't like to fight. Toriyama from the beginning created Gohan to be the Anti-Goku by making him studious and scientific as opposed to Goku who just loves to fight and nothing else. He said that in a 2007 interview too.
https://thedaoofdragonball.com/blog/his ... -toriyama/
Trunks and goten were playing ... the manga never shows them fighting until the tournament ...
If trunks and goten fight all the time, it would not be understood how he does not know how to fly and trunks yes
a goten either ... watch the epilogue
most likely, chichi will teach him only poses and a fighting style as a healthy way to exercise ...
I highly doubt that he has even exchanged blows
Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Uh...no, they could just not poorly write the women as awful caricatures of what they as poorly nurtured cishet men think women are like.damn wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:24 pmIt has nothing to do with that.JulieYBM wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 7:38 pm Matsui Aya is the only female writer that we know of to have worked on the cartoon series. None of the series directors have been women, either, and only one of the episode directors--Ishitani Megumi--was a woman and that was for the last episode of Super (save for uncredited work as an assistant episode director on various episodes). I don't believe any of the producers have been women, either.
The anime staff had very little to work with from the manga and they had to make sure the anime doesn't catch up to the manga so they just often regurgitated the little characterization that was from the manga over and over for the filler and exaggerated it to the umpteenth degree.
Sometimes they put in some sweet Chichi filler scenes in some cases and even some weirdly romantic ones which AT would probably never approve of.
If one wishes to write about women one should consult women or just outright hire women to work hands-on to tell our stories.
"We have to write the women insultingly! For accuracy to the comic!!"
So...I'm not a #realfan because I'm a shipper and because I can approach Dragon Ball objectively as a responsible adult member of society and not just as a fujoshi and Otaku. Okie dokie.ABED wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 9:46 pmWell I haven't. I see a lot of political digressions, criticism, and whole lot of "I wanna see these two fictional cartoon characters screw!"
As for it being a strawman argument, it should be abundantly obvious that I am in no way against being critical of the series on this forum. I also never once so much as implied that we should refrain from it. All I ask is that we also share what we like about the actual series. If you are saying what I'm asking for is to enjoy it uncritically, then yes, that's a strawman argument.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
When you are implying what I want is for everyone to just say positive thing and not have any criticism, then that's a strawman. What comment implies that's what I'm looking for?Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:04 pm so I'm not sure where on Earth you're getting "strawmanning" from.
Sure, you're "objective". Whatever you say.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Chi Chi entered the 23rd Martial Art on her own free will, there was no hatred for Martial Arts and in the Buu Saga the same no hatred. In Yo Son Goku ova there was no hatred.Tai Lung wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:26 pmNo, They played ...super michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Not sure what number one has to do with them not needing to train, Goten and Trunks were both allowed to train during peace time in the Buu Saga. They were training before they even knew about the money, they trained when no money was involved. Should have continued that way in DBS.
Because chichi has never liked fights
in the epilogue they didn't show getting anywheresuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Goten and Trunks training = bigger gain than Goku and Vegeta. Gotenks with training would surpass Goku Black but they are given 0 chance. They have huge potential..
before that he didn't trained with himsuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Vegeta didn't forbid Trunks from training with him just because he got hurt, Vegeta trained with him for the month before the tournament in the Gravity Chamber...
and Vegeta tells him .. that he will never bear that gravity and does not know that he can transformsuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Chapter 424 page 2 = Gohan asked about Trunks and Bulma says that Trunks is training with Vegeta. Bulma says that he wants to make Trunks stronger than Gohan and they should be in the gym and teach him. In Page 3 we see Trunks all sweating from training..
she is weak little or nothing will teach her ..because the manga doesn't show thissuper michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Chapter 424 page 4 = Vegeta tells Gohan to don't ever stop training.
super michael wrote: ↑Tue Jun 08, 2021 5:20 pm Chapter 427 Page 12 = Gohan wanted to skip school all for the intention of training, there is no hint that Gohan trained before he knew about the tournament.
Chapter 430 Page 14 = We see Goten and Gohan training hard in their Super Saiyan form.
Chapter 431 = Page 1-4 = We see everyone training hard for the tournament.
That is all the evidence. I have given you the chapter number and page number.
Trunks was training before Videl found out Gohan was Great Saiyanman, Goten was training while Gohan was studying in school.
.
https://readmanganato.com/manga-me955161/chapter-430
Vegeta never trained much with him .. again he didn't even know what his true power was.
When Chi Chi was first introduced she had no hatred for Martial Arts.
As for playing, I do remember Goten saying he play fight with Trunks, which Gohan thinks to himself that if he slacks then Goten and Trunks will surpass him.
Thanks to DBS now we know why Goten and Trunks remains weak in DBZ EOZ, which I assume is the epilogue.
Bulma said that Trunks and Vegeta constantly train every days.
Vegeta says that 150x Gravity is man training, which clearly Trunks is a boy, that is until Trunks transforms and makes 150x look like childs play.
Master Roshi stated that Chi Chi knows the Turtle Hermit fighting style, which Chi Chi got praise from him. Those skills she can teach to Goten even if it isn't much and even if Chi Chi is weak.
We have Bulma stating that Vegeta and Trunks constantly training, so Vegeta not knowing Trunks has Super Saiyan isn't evidence.
In DBS Trunks only sparring partner if Goten isn't available is the Pilaf Gang, how pathetic is that writing.
Why does it matter what gender the writer is when making a manga or anime? The writer could be bad and it has nothing to do if that person is male or female. My two least favourite characters are Chi Chi and Sakura (Naruto and Naruto Shippuden).JulieYBM wrote: ↑Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:39 pm Uh...no, they could just not poorly write the women as awful caricatures of what they as poorly nurtured cishet men think women are like.
If one wishes to write about women one should consult women or just outright hire women to work hands-on to tell our stories.
"We have to write the women insultingly! For accuracy to the comic!!"
I am sure female writers write about men characters and there is no issue at all, so why would there be issues if men write about female characters?
If a character is written really bad, then that deserves to get criticized.
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Re: Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?
Its almost not even fair to compare the two, Bulma is so much more of an active character than Chi-Chi is.
It's not too late. One day, it will be.
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