Who else likes Chi-Chi more than Bulma?

[PurestEvil]

That was actually some fascinating information. Somewhat collar-tugging, but intriguing nonetheless.
From the way I see it, Miyazaki's interest in young female characters is a tragic product of his reckoning with his cynicism. I guess, in his case, his cynicism gave way to escapism after watching White Snake, as he found a tether which he could hang on to for satisfying his desires.
I'm still a bit confused, however, about whether he was properly sexually attracted to young girls or not. Although, I do find him speaking out against the otakus having "fun" with his characters to be a bit cruelly hilarious.

Well, 'lolicons' are understood within the Otaku world to not actually be attracted to real world kids, just the erotic context within the story. I myself don't actually want to be kidnapped by orcs and raped endlessly until I bare their children and then lead an invading army to overthrow the human kingdom but it's still an exciting fantasy to have.
[...]
I wouldn't accuse Miyazaki of being attracted to real kids, just the fantasies he creates, which are far removed from reality. This is why his work is what I'd call 'pornographic' because while it might not involve sex or explicit nudity it provides him with the safe effect. Maid Dragon is similar, although it wears its erotic nature much more openly on its shoulder.

Oh no, I didn't mean to accuse Miyazaki to be a total pedo, I meant him being sexually attracted to his (and others') drawings of young girls.
Though I hope that you are not implying with your reply that you accept overt sexualization of girls by certain mangaka, lolicons and their community.

[JulieYBM]

That was actually some fascinating information. Somewhat collar-tugging, but intriguing nonetheless.
From the way I see it, Miyazaki's interest in young female characters is a tragic product of his reckoning with his cynicism. I guess, in his case, his cynicism gave way to escapism after watching White Snake, as he found a tether which he could hang on to for satisfying his desires.
I'm still a bit confused, however, about whether he was properly sexually attracted to young girls or not. Although, I do find him speaking out against the otakus having "fun" with his characters to be a bit cruelly hilarious.

Well, 'lolicons' are understood within the Otaku world to not actually be attracted to real world kids, just the erotic context within the story. I myself don't actually want to be kidnapped by orcs and raped endlessly until I bare their children and then lead an invading army to overthrow the human kingdom but it's still an exciting fantasy to have.
[...]
I wouldn't accuse Miyazaki of being attracted to real kids, just the fantasies he creates, which are far removed from reality. This is why his work is what I'd call 'pornographic' because while it might not involve sex or explicit nudity it provides him with the safe effect. Maid Dragon is similar, although it wears its erotic nature much more openly on its shoulder.

Oh no, I didn't mean to accuse Miyazaki to be a total pedo, I meant him being sexually attracted to his (and others') drawings of young girls.
Though I hope that you are not implying with your reply that you accept overt sexualization of girls by certain mangaka, lolicons and their community.

I'm not attracted to those things sexually. I like to self-insert as the girls in manga and anime, though. Am I suddenly wrong because I self-insert as Asuna from SAO? Or because Asuna's arc helps me process trauma and PTSD? Art is ultimately just a way for us to sort out our feelings, so I don't want to demonize anyone for using their art as a vessel for exploring themselves so long as they don't go around drawing actual fucking kids (Sh*db*se, whom thoughts of make me physically ill). I've read in Saitou Tamaki's work that the people who draw rape doujinshi are self-inserting as the victims. I think that's a great description of the therapeutic power of art and I don't like the idea of criticizing someone else's manner of dealing with their trauma when I don't like mine being criticized.

[PurestEvil]

Well, 'lolicons' are understood within the Otaku world to not actually be attracted to real world kids, just the erotic context within the story. I myself don't actually want to be kidnapped by orcs and raped endlessly until I bare their children and then lead an invading army to overthrow the human kingdom but it's still an exciting fantasy to have.
[...]
I wouldn't accuse Miyazaki of being attracted to real kids, just the fantasies he creates, which are far removed from reality. This is why his work is what I'd call 'pornographic' because while it might not involve sex or explicit nudity it provides him with the safe effect. Maid Dragon is similar, although it wears its erotic nature much more openly on its shoulder.

Oh no, I didn't mean to accuse Miyazaki to be a total pedo, I meant him being sexually attracted to his (and others') drawings of young girls.
Though I hope that you are not implying with your reply that you accept overt sexualization of girls by certain mangaka, lolicons and their community.

I'm not attracted to those things sexually. I like to self-insert as the girls in manga and anime, though. Am I suddenly wrong because I self-insert as Asuna from SAO? Or because Asuna's arc helps me process trauma and PTSD? Art is ultimately just a way for us to sort out our feelings, so I don't want to demonize anyone for using their art as a vessel for exploring themselves so long as they don't go around drawing actual fucking kids (Sh*db*se, whom thoughts of make me physically ill). I've read in Saitou Tamaki's work that the people who draw rape doujinshi are self-inserting as the victims. I think that's a great description of the therapeutic power of art and I don't like the idea of criticizing someone else's manner of dealing with their trauma when I don't like mine being criticized.

I mean, if it is for a purpose higher than fulfilling one's cheap or simple sexual desires, like conveying an ethical message or, as you describe, coping with their inner demons, then I could accept it as it is. I believe, though that one must be wary of the sort of people who enjoy reading such work not for the narrative subtext (i.e., Shatface and his ilk).

[JulieYBM]

Oh no, I didn't mean to accuse Miyazaki to be a total pedo, I meant him being sexually attracted to his (and others') drawings of young girls.
Though I hope that you are not implying with your reply that you accept overt sexualization of girls by certain mangaka, lolicons and their community.

I'm not attracted to those things sexually. I like to self-insert as the girls in manga and anime, though. Am I suddenly wrong because I self-insert as Asuna from SAO? Or because Asuna's arc helps me process trauma and PTSD? Art is ultimately just a way for us to sort out our feelings, so I don't want to demonize anyone for using their art as a vessel for exploring themselves so long as they don't go around drawing actual fucking kids (Sh*db*se, whom thoughts of make me physically ill). I've read in Saitou Tamaki's work that the people who draw rape doujinshi are self-inserting as the victims. I think that's a great description of the therapeutic power of art and I don't like the idea of criticizing someone else's manner of dealing with their trauma when I don't like mine being criticized.

I mean, if it is for a purpose higher than fulfilling one's cheap or simple sexual desires, like conveying an ethical message or, as you describe, coping with their inner demons, then I could accept it as it is. I believe, though that one must be wary of the sort of people who enjoy reading such work not for the narrative subtext (i.e., Shatface and his ilk).

Well, the thing is, that sort of thing can still be interwoven with one's sexuality. Plenty of people partake in ageplay and ABDL, which can be both sexual and not as a form of therapy, and I don't think it's my place to look down on people like that because I understand what it is like to live with terrible trauma and seek anyway (that does not violate the consent of other human beings) possible to make that pain go away.

It's an extremely sensitive topic, for sure.

[Tai Lung]

Chi Chi entered the 23rd Martial Art on her own free will, there was no hatred for Martial Arts and in the Buu Saga the same no hatred. In Yo Son Goku ova there was no hatred.
When Chi Chi was first introduced she had no hatred for Martial Arts.

Just to remind goku of his promise and then banned goku and gohan from training

As for playing, I do remember Goten saying he play fight with Trunks, which Gohan thinks to himself that if he slacks then Goten and Trunks will surpass him.

I remember that goten says that trunks can also transform

Bulma said that Trunks and Vegeta constantly train every days..

relative ...

Vegeta says that 150x Gravity is man training, which clearly Trunks is a boy, that is until Trunks transforms and makes 150x look like childs play..

Vegeta trains with 300g when waiting for the arrival of androids

[super michael]

Just to remind goku of his promise and then banned goku and gohan from training.

Chi Chi banned Goku from teaching martial arts, until the Buu Saga she allowed it 100%. Then there was no longer any ban. There was no ban in Yo Son Goku Ova, BoG and DBS Manga.

When Chi Chi was a kid, she didn't hate Goku likes to fight, there was no indication that she hates anyone that likes martial arts.

I remember that goten says that trunks can also transform

Chapter 428 Page 13/14
Goten doesn't mention that Trunks can transforms, he only mentions that Trunks is stronger than him, when they are fighting for fun.
This made Gohan think if they continue how they are doing, they can surpass Gohan if he doesn't train.

Chapter 430 Page 1
Vegeta ask Trunks if Gohan little brother can transform, which Trunks replies yes.

relative ...

What does that mean?

Vegeta trains with 300g when waiting for the arrival of androids

Vegeta never trains again in 300x Gravity even in DBS.

DB Chi Chi = No problem with martial arts and training as a kid or teenager.
DBZ Saiyan Saga Chi Chi = Banned martial arts and training.
DBZ Namek Saga - Cell Games = Can do martial arts and training but with conditions.
DBZ Buu Saga Chi Chi = No longer banned martial arts and training, there is no condition or compromise to do those things.
DBZ Yo Son Goku Ova = No longer banned martial arts and training, there is no condition or compromise to do those things.
DBZ BoG = No longer banned martial arts and training, there is no condition or compromise to do those things.
DBS manga = No longer banned martial arts and training, there is no condition or compromise to do those things.
GT = No longer banned martial arts and training, there is no condition or compromise to do those things.

DBS Anime = Banned martial arts and training. There is nothing anyone can do to change her mind and no compromise or conditions. It is Chi Chi rules and nothing can change her mind.

[greatapebroly]

I'm glad people also feel this way. Chi Chi was a sweetheart at the end of DB and that's when i fell in love with her. In z i was kinda annoyed by her but I quickly got over that as I realized she just wanted what's best for her little gohan. she stresses so much over him and goku that her nagging is actually justified. Bulma is just a spoiled brat.

[super michael]

I'm glad people also feel this way. Chi Chi was a sweetheart at the end of DB and that's when i fell in love with her. In z i was kinda annoyed by her but I quickly got over that as I realized she just wanted what's best for her little gohan. she stresses so much over him and goku that her nagging is actually justified. Bulma is just a spoiled brat.

Chi Chi wanting Gohan to study is good, there is nothing wrong there.

Chi Chi not allowing Goku to teach martial arts, that is wrong of her. However this ends in the Buu Saga.
Buu Saga Chi Chi is the best.

DBS Anime Chi Chi is a selfish spoiled brat, it has to be her way or she throws a tantrum. She forces anyone to do as she likes, be it family, friends or strangers.

Chi Chi acted like she has more power to control Pan, than Gohan the father. Chi Chi wanted Bulma, Videl and herself to decide Pan future, while Gohan wasn't allowed to decide at all.

[Peril]

Mixed bag. Chichi feels flandarized, riding that one joke of "oooh angry wife and strict Asian mother" so far into the ground she has discovered a new kind of dinosaur by now I'm sure. Meanwhile Bulma has mellowed out and taking on motherhood like a champ while juggling the Capsule Corporation. Before Super I would say I like Chichi slightly more than Bulma but now....eh.

At most I can say I feel neutral about Bulma these days. Not very high on my list of favorites. She was a brat who was totally okay with using her body to get what she wanted (who taught her this, social media didn't exist back then) and then hooks up with Vegeta which sent me for a loop years ago and I'm partially still spinning.

Chichi makes me feel things. Either frustration or shock and delight if she side steps her tired ass tropes and acts kind or at least reasonable. I tend to run a lot of "what-if" scenarios in my head with Chichi.

[ABED]

Mixed bag. Chichi feels flandarized, riding that one joke of "oooh angry wife and strict Asian mother" so far into the ground she has discovered a new kind of dinosaur by now I'm sure. Meanwhile Bulma has mellowed out and taking on motherhood like a champ while juggling the Capsule Corporation. Before Super I would say I like Chichi slightly more than Bulma but now....eh.

At most I can say I feel neutral about Bulma these days. Not very high on my list of favorites. She was a brat who was totally okay with using her body to get what she wanted (who taught her this, social media didn't exist back then) and then hooks up with Vegeta which sent me for a loop years ago and I'm partially still spinning.

Chichi makes me feel things. Either frustration or shock and delight if she side steps her tired ass tropes and acts kind or at least reasonable. I tend to run a lot of "what-if" scenarios in my head with Chichi.

How come you don't extend Bulma the same courtesy you do Chichi? Bulma has more to her than her vanity and hooking up with Vegeta. Chichi even prior to DBZ was a gag character.

[Peril]

Mixed bag. Chichi feels flandarized, riding that one joke of "oooh angry wife and strict Asian mother" so far into the ground she has discovered a new kind of dinosaur by now I'm sure. Meanwhile Bulma has mellowed out and taking on motherhood like a champ while juggling the Capsule Corporation. Before Super I would say I like Chichi slightly more than Bulma but now....eh.

At most I can say I feel neutral about Bulma these days. Not very high on my list of favorites. She was a brat who was totally okay with using her body to get what she wanted (who taught her this, social media didn't exist back then) and then hooks up with Vegeta which sent me for a loop years ago and I'm partially still spinning.

Chichi makes me feel things. Either frustration or shock and delight if she side steps her tired ass tropes and acts kind or at least reasonable. I tend to run a lot of "what-if" scenarios in my head with Chichi.

How come you don't extend Bulma the same courtesy you do Chichi? Bulma has more to her than her vanity and hooking up with Vegeta. Chichi even prior to DBZ was a gag character.

You misunderstand. I dont dislike Bulma. I just seem to want Chichi to suck less. Bulma has her act together by Toriyama's frightening standards.

[super michael]

Without Bulma there would be no portable and accurate Dragon Ball Radar for the Z fighters. There would be no time machine, to change the past so Dr Gero cyborgs and android doesn't win.

Bulma was able to fix Raditz scouter, which helped find the Z fighters to train in Kami place.

In DBS she helped by fixing the time machine, so the Z fighter could defeat Goku Black.

I think she has done plenty to help.

[8000 Saiyan]

I can't say that I prefer Chi-Chi to Bulma as a character. I mean, after Dragon Ball, she mostly becomes comic relief and a rather minor character. Bulma, on the other hand, still contributes somewhat to the plot.

I do have to say that she's far more beautiful with her hair down.

[ABED]

Mixed bag. Chichi feels flandarized, riding that one joke of "oooh angry wife and strict Asian mother" so far into the ground she has discovered a new kind of dinosaur by now I'm sure. Meanwhile Bulma has mellowed out and taking on motherhood like a champ while juggling the Capsule Corporation. Before Super I would say I like Chichi slightly more than Bulma but now....eh.

At most I can say I feel neutral about Bulma these days. Not very high on my list of favorites. She was a brat who was totally okay with using her body to get what she wanted (who taught her this, social media didn't exist back then) and then hooks up with Vegeta which sent me for a loop years ago and I'm partially still spinning.

Chichi makes me feel things. Either frustration or shock and delight if she side steps her tired ass tropes and acts kind or at least reasonable. I tend to run a lot of "what-if" scenarios in my head with Chichi.

How come you don't extend Bulma the same courtesy you do Chichi? Bulma has more to her than her vanity and hooking up with Vegeta. Chichi even prior to DBZ was a gag character.

You misunderstand. I dont dislike Bulma. I just seem to want Chichi to suck less. Bulma has her act together by Toriyama's frightening standards.

Ah, my bad. Thanks for clarifying.

[Rory]

I certainly liked Chi-Chi a lot more after reading the manga and realising so much of what I didn't like seemed to be Z anime-exclusive.
As a character I prefer Bulma (more meat on the bones), but if we're doing a hypothetical 'who would you like' type thing, I still think Bulma comes out looking good. Most of her real intense/irritating behaviour is on display when she's literally a teenager/young adult. Bedding the alien guy who killed your boyfriend isn't a great look, that's one's a big red flag, but c'mon, we all have a couple of those.
Also she really mellows as she gets older (as people do) and seems like a great all-rounder by the time the Boo arc comes around- like a real person, she's been on a journey and has changed/grown.

Chi-Chi doesn't seem to grow much, she's very arrested-development- which checks out. She's lived her whole life looking for one thing (marriage with a specific guy) then she gets it and just kinda hunkeres down in that role.
Good for her good for her, it's just not a trait I find super endearing.