Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:17 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:55 pm The Super 17 arc was only like 7 episodes and probably gets talked about less than any arc in GT. I think GT’s bad rep goes further than that.
For sure. What I mean is that all of the issues with GT are on full display at their worst in that arc, IMO.

It's only 7 episodes, but those 7 episodes are the show's low point and brought the whole thing down for me after finding the Baby arc to be pretty ok (once it got going).

I personally think GT would be at least somewhat better received if the series went straight from Baby to the Shadow Dragons. The core issues would still be there, but we wouldn't have that low point to emphasize them.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:27 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:55 pm
Majin Buu wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:50 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:39 am I honestly think I'd have to go with Buu on this one, purely because of A) that god awful super 17 arc, and B) Super Saiyaman is cool.
I'm convinced that a lot of GT's bad reputation stems from how awful the Super 17 arc is. Easily the worst part of GT.
The Super 17 arc was only like 7 episodes and probably gets talked about less than any arc in GT. I think GT’s bad rep goes further than that.
If anything, the Black Star Ball arc is a much bigger factor of GT's bad rep, and kind of for good reason.
Boring, annoying, and nonsensical, no wonder so many fans were turned away.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:30 pm

Agree to disagree then. The Black Star Ball arc is admittedly pretty boring, but the Super 17 arc just left a worse impression on me.

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by PurestEvil » Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:36 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:30 pm Agree to disagree then. The Black Star Ball arc is admittedly pretty boring, but Super 17 arc just left a worse impression on me.
Oh, don't get me wrong, Super 17 is MUCH worse than Black Star, I just think that the terrible first impression had a bigger impact on the fandom.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:38 pm

The Majin Boo arc is messy, but it generally has a lot more personality to it than GT, so I’d have to say that it’s better. I still love Super Saiyan 4 and the ending, though

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by PremiumSalt » Wed Apr 28, 2021 6:52 pm

Entirety of GT? Boo arc, no question.

That said, the Baby arc, besides the ending, is better than most of the Boo arc imo.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:09 pm

Buu had the fighting candy episode so ill go with that.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:00 pm

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 4:09 pm Buu had the fighting candy episode so ill go with that.
I love that Vegetto is so powerful that he becomes autonomous when turned into an inanimate object
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by Metalwario64 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 1:13 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 11:40 pm May there one be a day where a discussion of quality doesn’t have to bring up the irrelevancy of canon.

Anyways, Majin Boo is just a lot of fun. GT isn’t fun. There were fantastic ideas in GT but the execution tended to be lackluster.
That's about where I stand. GT does have this nostalgic aura to it that brings some enjoyment when I watch it, but I have a good time with the Buu arc, even when it has story issues, likely due to a burnt out Toriyama.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Apr 30, 2021 4:00 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:17 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:55 pm The Super 17 arc was only like 7 episodes and probably gets talked about less than any arc in GT. I think GT’s bad rep goes further than that.
For sure. What I mean is that all of the issues with GT are on full display at their worst in that arc, IMO.

It's only 7 episodes, but those 7 episodes are the show's low point and brought the whole thing down for me after finding the Baby arc to be pretty ok (once it got going).

I personally think GT would be at least somewhat better received if the series went straight from Baby to the Shadow Dragons. The core issues would still be there, but we wouldn't have that low point to emphasize them.
I actually agree with this take of the Super 17 arc, it condenses every or most problems of GT in a few episodes.

It has silly, uninteresting fights.
It has dumb decisions made by the characters just to move the plot forward, shoehorned stuff, even during fights.
It has Goku-only stamped on it, everybody is just there just because Goku isn't, when he is there, the rest are out of comission.
It re-writes how things work (androids going to hell, androids having labs in hell, every evil guy keeping their bodies, androids having ki).

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat May 01, 2021 4:01 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:55 pm
Majin Buu wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 4:50 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 9:39 am I honestly think I'd have to go with Buu on this one, purely because of A) that god awful super 17 arc, and B) Super Saiyaman is cool.
I'm convinced that a lot of GT's bad reputation stems from how awful the Super 17 arc is. Easily the worst part of GT.
The Super 17 arc was only like 7 episodes and probably gets talked about less than any arc in GT. I think GT’s bad rep goes further than that.
Eh, I dunno. Every Dragon Ball space I've been on for the last 15 years universally shits on the Super 17 arc
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat May 01, 2021 5:24 pm

At no point watching GT did I ever have the feeling, "oh man, I can't wait for this fight to take place". In a show about punching dudes in the face, that's not a good quality.

If nothing else, the Buu arc gave us the Goku v. Vegeta rematch on steroids.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by UltraInstinctRorikon » Sat May 01, 2021 6:04 pm

GT's problem start when baby arc starts. It's when it tries to be DBZ is when it falls. When it was it's own thing the prior arcs, it's slice of life adventure and is great.

I get why they started to try to appeal to the Z crowd but yeesh they executed it terribly.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by PurestEvil » Sat May 01, 2021 6:12 pm

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:04 pm GT's problem start when baby arc starts. It's when it tries to be DBZ is when it falls. When it was it's own thing the prior arcs, it's slice of life adventure and is great.
Too bad it was sprinkled with plot contrivances, rehashes, and unfunny gags.
Besides, GT certainly did not try to be its own thing with the Black Star balls, it was literally meant to harken back to the fucking Hunt for the Dragon Balls in early DB. That's why they made him a kid again.
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat May 01, 2021 9:34 pm

UltraInstinctRorikon wrote: Sat May 01, 2021 6:04 pm It's when it tries to be DBZ is when it falls.
Okay but what does that even mean? The franchise developed its identity as a martial arts series with high stakes “stop this evil powerful villain” back in the Daimao arc. It’s not trying to be Dragon Ball Z it’s being a Dragon Ball show.
When it was it's own thing the prior arcs, it's slice of life adventure and is great.
Like PurestEvil basically said the first arc of GT is literally the first arc of Dragon Ball but in spaaaaaaace. Right down to recycling the Oolong episode’s plot.

It is by far the most derivative arc of GT excluding Super 17 recycling Z movie 12’s past villains escape from hell thing.

I get why they started to try to appeal to the Z crowd but yeesh they executed it terribly.
More like they realized doing the original arc of Dragon Ball again for a series meant to last at least a year wasn’t sustainable. There’s a reason Toriyama pretty much dropped it after the first.

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by WittyUsername » Sat May 01, 2021 9:59 pm

I don’t understand why exactly Toei initially chose to make GT a callback to the very first arc of Dragon Ball. That part of the series was never all that popular. Dragon Ball took off in popularity once it became a show about martial arts.

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat May 01, 2021 11:08 pm

The series literally aged Goku down to a kid to recapture the magic of the beginning!
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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Sun May 02, 2021 3:12 pm

Wasn't the whole premise of GT Toriyama's idea? I kinda see his logic, he had grown so sick of the violent high-stakes fights of the Buu arc and probably wanted to see a change of pace in the next series, even if he was less involved in it. If I remember from that other series of interviews, Toei were quick to move on from the initial premise of DB in spaaace once they realised it just wasn't working. Yeah, it was a pretty dumb idea in hindsight but I get why they tried it.

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun May 02, 2021 3:22 pm

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:12 pm Wasn't the whole premise of GT Toriyama's idea? I kinda see his logic, he had grown so sick of the violent high-stakes fights of the Buu arc and probably wanted to see a change of pace in the next series, even if he was less involved in it. If I remember from that other series of interviews, Toei were quick to move on from the initial premise of DB in spaaace once they realised it just wasn't working. Yeah, it was a pretty dumb idea in hindsight but I get why they tried it.
I never heard about it being Toriyama’s idea. I know he designed many of the initial characters, but I always assumed that it was Toei’s idea to try and bring the series back to its roots. People always talk about GT as though Toriyama’s involvement was kept to the bare minimum. If it was his idea, that would make a bit more sense, but even then, surely he himself would’ve realized that something like that probably wouldn’t sell?

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Re: Which Part Of Dragon Ball Is BETTER: The Majin Buu Saga OR The Entirety Of Dragon Ball GT?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun May 02, 2021 3:38 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:22 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 3:12 pm Wasn't the whole premise of GT Toriyama's idea? I kinda see his logic, he had grown so sick of the violent high-stakes fights of the Buu arc and probably wanted to see a change of pace in the next series, even if he was less involved in it. If I remember from that other series of interviews, Toei were quick to move on from the initial premise of DB in spaaace once they realised it just wasn't working. Yeah, it was a pretty dumb idea in hindsight but I get why they tried it.
I never heard about it being Toriyama’s idea. I know he designed many of the initial characters, but I always assumed that it was Toei’s idea to try and bring the series back to its roots. People always talk about GT as though Toriyama’s involvement was kept to the bare minimum. If it was his idea, that would make a bit more sense, but even then, surely he himself would’ve realized that something like that probably wouldn’t sell?
Yeah, the series director whose name escapes me even said they aged Goku down and went back to its roots because they literally couldn't think of where else to go with Goku as a character. They made him a kid to knock him down a peg. But after a few episodes they realized that sucked, so they went right back to the Z formula and even gave Goku a transformation that conveniently aged him back up.
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