Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:47 am

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Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 69 (nice) of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

Sorry for the late post. I was really busy yesterday.

Is it just me or is the Chapter 380 title page really derpy?

Previous thread: Week 68 (DBZ 139-143)
Next thread: Week 70 (DBZ 149-153)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 297 - Piccolo’s Grievous Mistake! Cell Escapes Into the City! (DBZ episode 144)
Dub title: Piccolo's Folly
Originally aired 17th of June 1992

Kai equivalent: Episode 70 - A Devious Trick, the Taiyō-Ken! Chase After the Artificial Human Cell
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


Piccolo puts his power at full throttle against Cell. Trunks and Kuririn then gather there. Knowing that he no longer has any chance of winning, Cell blinds them with the Taiyō-Ken and escapes. Piccolo soon chases after Cell, but cannot find him as Cell has extinguished all traces of himself. While Piccolo is angry over Cell’s escape, Vegeta arrives and is mad that Piccolo’s power now surpasses his own. Meanwhile, Cell has moved on to another city.

Anime-only/filler content: The gang gathering round a recovering Goku, Cell fighting a sports team, an added conversation between 17 and 18.

Episode 298 - The Secret of Cell’s Birth! What Lies Below the Laboratory?! (DBZ episode 145)
Dub title: Laboratory Basement
Originally aired 24th of June 1992

Kai equivalent: Episode 71 - Attack the Elusive Cell! Son Goku is Finally Revived!
Written by: Hiroshi Toda
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


After heading to Doctor Gero’s laboratory, Trunks and Kuririn discover the present Cell inside an incubator in the laboratory’s basement. They also finds blueprints for No. 17. Trunks then destroys the laboratory and goes to Vegeta’s to train. Meanwhile, Cell arrives in Nicky Town and attacks people, accumulating more life extract. At that time, Bulma uses No. 17’s blueprints to begin looking for the artificial humans’ weaknesses…

Anime-only/filler content: Gohan training at Kame House and trying to hide this from Chichi, Piccolo and Ten seeing the aftermath of Cell's sports team massacre, the Androids reaching Mt. Paozu.

Episode 299 - Goku Awakens to Battle! Go Beyond the Super Saiyan!! (DBZ episode 146)
Dub title: Our Hero Awakes
Originally aired 1st of July 1992

Kai equivalent: Episode 71 - Attack the Elusive Cell! Son Goku is Finally Revived!
Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Kazuya Hisada


In search of life extract, Cell appears in Basil Town. After discovering Cell, Kuririn resolutely challenges him, but is in an absolutely desperate pinch. Piccolo and the others then come rushing in, and Kuririn is saved. Elsewhere, the artificial humans have come close to Goku’s house. Cell avoids Piccolo and the others’ pursuit and steadily steals more life extract. Meanwhile at Kame House, Goku finally recovers from his contagious heart disease. Goku aims for a power even higher than the Super Saiyan.

Anime-only/filler content: Everything at the airport, the Androids driving through Mt. Paozu, Goku kissing Chichi when he wakes up.

Episode 300 - Hasten Your Training, Saiyans! In the Room of Spirit and Time… (DBZ episode 147)
Dub title: Time Chamber
Originally aired 8th of July 1992

Kai equivalent: Episode 72 - Surpass Super Saiyan! Now, Into the Room of Spirit and Time
Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Shigeyasu Yamauchi
Animation supervisor: Tadayoshi Yamamuro


The revived Goku takes Gohan and leaves to train. The training place is the Room of Spirit and Time, located in God’s temple, where one can train an entire year’s worth in one day. He then offers Vegeta to train in the Room of Spirit and Time as well. Meanwhile, the artificial humans have finally arrived at Goku’s house. But learning that Goku isn’t there, they head for Kame House. After Goku and the others arrive at God’s temple, Vegeta and Trunks enter the Room of Spirit and Time. The artificial humans then arrive at Kame House, and Piccolo stands to face them.

Anime-only/filler content: Kuririn tackling Goku through the side of the plane when he hugs him, 18 looking through Chichi's clothes, Cell attacking a carnival.

Episode 301 - The Gekiretsu Kodan that Split the Heavens!! Piccolo vs Artificial Human No. 17 (DBZ episode 148)
Dub title: The Monster is Coming
Originally aired 15th of July 1992

Kai equivalent: Episode 72 - Surpass Super Saiyan! Now, Into the Room of Spirit and Time
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


Now that the artificial humans have arrived at Kame House, Piccolo lures them to an uninhabited island. With his power from merging with God, Piccolo battles evenly with No. 17. Meanwhile, Bulma has used No. 17’s blueprints and built an emergency deactivation controller for the artificial humans as fast as she could. With just this, the artificial humans can be destroyed. But Cell notices the gigantic ki that Piccolo is giving off as he fights No. 17 at full power, and begins moving with insane speed to absorb No. 17 and 18.

Anime-only/filler content: Bulma building the remote to deactive the Androids, and extensions to the fight between 17 and Piccolo. The order of scenes was also slightly altered; the scene where Goku tells Gohan that Piccolo is fighting the Androids happens before the fight begins, instead of being a cutaway during the fight as in the manga.

-

Interesting trivia:
  • At this point in time in the manga, Cell convinces Vegeta to let him achieve his perfect form, Kuririn decides he can't deactivate 18, and after much in-fighting between Trunks and Vegeta, Cell absorbs 18.
  • In some versions of Funimations dub of Z episode 146, there was an extensive monologue by the narrator which, in my opinion, completely kills the intense mood of the scene. It seems Funi agreed, as the dialogue was not present in the final edit which aired in the US and the UK, and the monologue was not present in the Westwood Media dub either, however the YTV Funi dub (which was Ocean's edit of Funimation's dub that aired on YTV and used the exact same video edits/master as the Westwood dub) used this narration. In yet another example of the remastered dub completely dropping the ball, this monologue was reinstated in the remastered dub, newly voiced by Kyle Hebert.
    • To further bring in my opinion on this scene: To be honest, while I generally prefer Kyle Hebert as a narrator over Dale Kelly, I think the more cheesy sound and delivery of Dale Kelly works better for this really terrible monologue. Hebert's more serious, more polished feel doesn't really work (it just sounds too serious for the material), which sort of illustrates perfectly why the remastered dub never worked in the first place: You had polished-up, serious, legitimately good work (Kyle Hebert's delivery) thrown in a blender with amateurish crap (the dialogue). The Garlic Jr. arc has a weird example of this, where some of Garlic Jr.'s henchmen were completely redubbed by new actors who sound quite good, while others were still the crappy, exaggerated, amateurishly-directed 1999 voices. The result is just an unappealing mess that doesn't manage to fix the flaws of the original dub, or present a version of the original dub for nostalgic fans to enjoy.
  • When Goku wakes up in Z episode 146, even though it's technically not on-screen, he very obviously kisses Chichi, as he would once again in episode 147, which would later conflict with a joke Toriyama threw into an episode of the Black arc of Super, which tells us that Goku doesn't even know what kissing is. Granted, this was an anime-only addition to both relevant Z episodes, so Toriyama wasn't contradicting himself, and even if he was, it is just a throaway joke, in fairness. But I still think the joke is stupid. :P
  • With Z episode 147, we've reached 300 episodes! That means we're about 2/3rds of the way through the rewatch overall, too.
    • Z episode 146 (which is overall episode 299) also marks the exact midpoint of Z.
  • There are 16 redrawn shots in Kai episode 70, there are 17 in episode 71, and there are 6 in episode 72.
  • Even though Goku says only two people can enter the Room of Spirit and Time at once, we will later see four in the room in the Boo arc (Goten, Trunks, Piccolo, and Boo). One possible explanation is that the room only has provisions for two, but this is never explained outright.
  • The colour of 18's jeans change randomly throughout Z episode 147.
Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Dragon Ball logo provided by KBABZ.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Sat May 08, 2021 9:31 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:42 am

And I just now realized all the towns Cell invades were named after spices ala Garlic Jr and his henchmen.

It’s always nice to see Goku and Chi Chi act like a couple even if it’s almost exclusively Toei material.






Robo4900 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:47 am
[*]In the original Funimation dub of Z episode 146, there was an extensive monologue by the narrator which, in my opinion, completely kills the intense mood of the scene. It seems Funi agreed, as the dialogue was removed after the first airing, and the monologue was not present in the Westwood Media dub, however the YTV Funi dub (which was Ocean's edit of Funimation's dub that aired on YTV and used the exact same video edits/master as the Westwood dub) did keep the narration. In yet another example of the remastered dub completely dropping the ball, this monologue was reinstated in the remastered dub, newly voiced by Kyle Hebert.
  • To further bring in my opinion on this scene: To be honest, while I generally prefer Kyle Hebert as a narrator over Dale Kelly, I think the more cheesy sound and delivery of Dale Kelly works better for this really terrible monologue. Hebert's more serious, more polished feel doesn't really work (it just sounds too serious for the material), which sort of illustrates perfectly why the remastered dub never worked in the first place: You had polished-up, serious, legitimately good work (Kyle Hebert's delivery) thrown in a blender with amateurish crap (the dialogue)
It’s the going through the effort of having Kyle Hebert redub this unnecessary and stupid narration for me. It’s like a bizarre form of lazy. Like having Kyle Hebert do the “stay tune for scenes from the next episodes of Dragon Ball Z!” when the season sets lack NEP. So it only makes sense on the Dragon Boxes and even then ir switches to the Japanese audio.

Also I agree 100 percent. I like Hebert as a narrator and never thought his voice clashed with the Japanese music like GT’s narrator but his more serious take on the material clashes with the stupid corny over the top dialog that was written for Dale Kelly’s hammy performance.

Now try to imagine Hebert saying “Krillin in da house!”

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:29 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:42 am And I just now realized all the towns Cell invades were named after spices ala Garlic Jr and his henchmen.

It’s always nice to see Goku and Chi Chi act like a couple even if it’s almost exclusively Toei material.






Robo4900 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:47 am
[*]In the original Funimation dub of Z episode 146, there was an extensive monologue by the narrator which, in my opinion, completely kills the intense mood of the scene. It seems Funi agreed, as the dialogue was removed after the first airing, and the monologue was not present in the Westwood Media dub, however the YTV Funi dub (which was Ocean's edit of Funimation's dub that aired on YTV and used the exact same video edits/master as the Westwood dub) did keep the narration. In yet another example of the remastered dub completely dropping the ball, this monologue was reinstated in the remastered dub, newly voiced by Kyle Hebert.
  • To further bring in my opinion on this scene: To be honest, while I generally prefer Kyle Hebert as a narrator over Dale Kelly, I think the more cheesy sound and delivery of Dale Kelly works better for this really terrible monologue. Hebert's more serious, more polished feel doesn't really work (it just sounds too serious for the material), which sort of illustrates perfectly why the remastered dub never worked in the first place: You had polished-up, serious, legitimately good work (Kyle Hebert's delivery) thrown in a blender with amateurish crap (the dialogue)
It’s the going through the effort of having Kyle Hebert redub this unnecessary and stupid narration for me. It’s like a bizarre form of lazy. Like having Kyle Hebert do the “stay tune for scenes from the next episodes of Dragon Ball Z!” when the season sets lack NEP. So it only makes sense on the Dragon Boxes and even then ir switches to the Japanese audio.

Also I agree 100 percent. I like Hebert as a narrator and never thought his voice clashed with the Japanese music like GT’s narrator but his more serious take on the material clashes with the stupid corny over the top dialog that was written for Dale Kelly’s hammy performance.

Now try to imagine Hebert saying “Krillin in da house!”
Oh yes, the dialogue of that narration and most of the narrator's dialogue in general in the old dub was definitely written with Kelly's WWF/monster truck announcer impression voice in mind. Herbert OTOH is much less ham-tastic in his delivery in general and it just feels awkward having him say these same garbage lines, and having the monologue stay removed from the scene would've been much better.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:35 pm

I considered writing a piece of trivia about Kikuchi's extensive work on the franchise, but I couldn't think of any particularly profoud way to put it.

But, suffice it to say, his influence on Dragon Ball and Dr. Slump is immeasurable and his legacy will continue on for as long as there are still fans of Toriyama's work.
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:42 am It’s the going through the effort of having Kyle Hebert redub this unnecessary and stupid narration for me. It’s like a bizarre form of lazy. Like having Kyle Hebert do the “stay tune for scenes from the next episodes of Dragon Ball Z!” when the season sets lack NEP. So it only makes sense on the Dragon Boxes and even then ir switches to the Japanese audio.
Yeah.

It's clear to me that they basically just had the redub actors read the original scripts without any consideration for last-minute rewrites for lines added before broadcast.

It's like if a scene from a movie or a mainstream cartoon had to be redubbed but they only used the principal recording script, without any lines that were later changed in ADR during post production.

It's really a perfect demonstration of the sheer lack of care that went into Funi's then-allegedly shiny, new dub of their flagship property. It boggles my mind that, for something that would replace the original dub, and was intended to become the one and only English dub of DBZ that anyone would get to see, production was so incredibly sloppy overall.

It's quite stark how different things would turn out two years later when Kai happened, though I do wonder if Kai only happened the way it did because of how bad "Remastered" was. There are unsubstantiated rumours that Funimation initially was just going to reuse their Z recordings to make a Kai dub, so if this is true, I do wonder if people like Chris Sabat pushed for a new dub so they could do it right this time, after the lazy fiasco in 2007-2008; what they were saying at the time was that it was righting the wrongs of the original dub, but given how dismissive of the original dub Chris Sabat can be, it would make sense if he was disappointed with "Remastered" as well, but didn't want to diss a then-still-recent flagship product.

It's interesting to think about either way.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:51 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 12:35 pm I considered writing a piece of trivia about Kikuchi's extensive work on the franchise, but I couldn't think of any particularly profoud way to put it.

But, suffice it to say, his influence on Dragon Ball and Dr. Slump is immeasurable and his legacy will continue on for as long as there are still fans of Toriyama's work.
MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:42 am It’s the going through the effort of having Kyle Hebert redub this unnecessary and stupid narration for me. It’s like a bizarre form of lazy. Like having Kyle Hebert do the “stay tune for scenes from the next episodes of Dragon Ball Z!” when the season sets lack NEP. So it only makes sense on the Dragon Boxes and even then ir switches to the Japanese audio.
Yeah.

It's clear to me that they basically just had the redub actors read the original scripts without any consideration for last-minute rewrites for lines added before broadcast.

It's like if a scene from a movie or a mainstream cartoon had to be redubbed but they only used the principal recording script, without any lines that were later changed in ADR during post production.

It's really a perfect demonstration of the sheer lack of care that went into Funi's then-allegedly shiny, new dub of their flagship property. It boggles my mind that, for something that would replace the original dub, and was intended to become the one and only English dub of DBZ that anyone would get to see, production was so incredibly sloppy overall.

It's quite stark how different things would turn out two years later when Kai happened, though I do wonder if Kai only happened the way it did because of how bad "Remastered" was. There are unsubstantiated rumours that Funimation initially was just going to reuse their Z recordings to make a Kai dub, so if this is true, I do wonder if people like Chris Sabat pushed for a new dub so they could do it right this time, after the lazy fiasco in 2007-2008; what they were saying at the time was that it was righting the wrongs of the original dub, but given how dismissive of the original dub Chris Sabat can be, it would make sense if he was disappointed with "Remastered" as well, but didn't want to diss a then-still-recent flagship product.

It's interesting to think about either way.
Indeed, the Orange Brick hack job redub was a crap half measure that really didn't amount to all that much in the long run for it was neither the version (albeit bad, but I digress) of the dub a lot of fans grew up watching on Toonami nor a more faithful version that those favoring the Japanese version would want. Kai OTOH was a chance for them to do something which improved upon what they had so horrendously done a decade earlier to a much greater degree, and for the most part they did a really good job at it though as explained before i know it's not a perfect dub either.

I can see why Sabat would think that, because the old dub particularly the Freeza through Cell arcs was really awful and clearly showed how amatuer the in house cast was then.
DB collection related goals as of now:

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2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Fri Apr 30, 2021 2:14 pm

The only pieces of Kikuchi-related Trivia that I can come up with is this:
  • In the Penguin Village episodes of the Red Ribbon Army Arc, almost all of Dragon Ball's usual score was replaced with Kikuchi's previous music from the Dr. Slump anime that preceded Dragon Ball (it mixed in with Kinto'un's theme when Goku intially searches for General Blue). Combined with the fact that much of the animation staff of Dragon Ball also worked on Dr. Slump, this added for an enormous layer of authenticity to these episodes, and must have been a real treat for fans who thought they'd seen the last of Dr. Slump animation a year prior.
    • Further, thanks to Funimation's rather basic conversion of the VO, SFX and Music layers to a 5.1 mix, it's possible to isolate a huge amount of the music on their DVD releases, including the Blue Bricks. Because of this, Kikuchi's Dr. Slump music can be isolated, making them some of the few tracks from the original Dr. Slump anime that can be listened to on their own, outside of the intro theme.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by ikaos » Fri May 07, 2021 10:54 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:47 am [*]In the original Funimation dub of Z episode 146, there was an extensive monologue by the narrator which, in my opinion, completely kills the intense mood of the scene. It seems Funi agreed, as the dialogue was removed after the first airing, and the monologue was not present in the Westwood Media dub, however the YTV Funi dub (which was Ocean's edit of Funimation's dub that aired on YTV and used the exact same video edits/master as the Westwood dub) did keep the narration.
This is almost correct, however based on my memory (and double-checking a US Toonami rip), that narration was never present in any version of the American broadcast, which is why I was surprised to hear it in the YTV rip. I also agree that the narration is stupid and that the scene is actually pretty chilling even with the Faulconer Productions score. There are a few other instances of narration being added for the remastered dub but this is the only one that I'm aware of where narration varies between broadcasts.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 69 (nice) - DBZ 144-148 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Sat May 08, 2021 9:34 am

ikaos wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 10:54 pm
Robo4900 wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 10:47 am [*]In the original Funimation dub of Z episode 146, there was an extensive monologue by the narrator which, in my opinion, completely kills the intense mood of the scene. It seems Funi agreed, as the dialogue was removed after the first airing, and the monologue was not present in the Westwood Media dub, however the YTV Funi dub (which was Ocean's edit of Funimation's dub that aired on YTV and used the exact same video edits/master as the Westwood dub) did keep the narration.
This is almost correct, however based on my memory (and double-checking a US Toonami rip), that narration was never present in any version of the American broadcast, which is why I was surprised to hear it in the YTV rip. I also agree that the narration is stupid and that the scene is actually pretty chilling even with the Faulconer Productions score. There are a few other instances of narration being added for the remastered dub but this is the only one that I'm aware of where narration varies between broadcasts.
Thanks.

I wasn't 100% sure, since I didn't have a copy to hand, but this was the story as I remembered it. Thanks for the correction, I have now amended the entry. :)

I considered noting that the YTV version is somewhat known for including what we can only assume to be not-yet-final dialogue in some places that was changed or removed by Funimation for their original dub, and then reinstated for the remastered dub (such as the "Piccolo and Gohan hate each other" line in the Garlic Jr. saga), but I decided it would be a bit of a long-winded thing to add at this late stage.
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