It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jun 23, 2021 9:48 pm

Instead of making her into a cop she could become an Indiana Jones-type. That'd make for some cool adventures.

Well, assuming the creative staff of each project wasn't didn't leave her out of the action.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:08 pm

How is she gonna help against people that can literally destroy the universe?
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:20 pm

ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:08 pm How is she gonna help against people that can literally destroy the universe?
The same way Toriyama randomly decided to make the Saiyans geniuses at combat: just because.

Like, what, am I supposed to be afraid of something as stupid as lore and world-building? 'Cause I'm not and I'm going to propose until the end of time that narrative bullshit should always be ignored in favor of writing the stories and character interactions you want to.

I mean, really. Nothing is standing in the way of just saying "Videl still trains and is really talented at ki manipulation" other than sucking off stupid shit like "Uh...Gokuu's entire race can do this and this because plot reasons!"
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by jjgp1112 » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:38 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:20 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:08 pm How is she gonna help against people that can literally destroy the universe?
The same way Toriyama randomly decided to make the Saiyans geniuses at combat: just because.

Like, what, am I supposed to be afraid of something as stupid as lore and world-building? 'Cause I'm not and I'm going to propose until the end of time that narrative bullshit should always be ignored in favor of writing the stories and character interactions you want to.

I mean, really. Nothing is standing in the way of just saying "Videl still trains and is really talented at ki manipulation" other than sucking off stupid shit like "Uh...Gokuu's entire race can do this and this because plot reasons!"
Dragon Ball's too deep in the game for that shit to make any sense, especially considering the ceiling we see with other humans while Videl is...well, Videl.

Despite how much I myself don't care much for power level minutia, there is a limit. Internal consistency is still important, especially relative to the story being told. And Videl, an ordinary human daughter of a buffoon suddenly being where Krillin, Tien and Yamcha are just doesn't jive with anything. It would predictably go over like a wet fart and probably add nothing in the grand scheme of things since Videl has been an irrelevant character since the 28th TB.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by goku the krump dancer » Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:57 pm

How is her being a cop any different from being Great Saiya-woman/Saiyaman 2?
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:23 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:57 pm How is her being a cop any different from being Great Saiya-woman/Saiyaman 2?
Image
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:26 am

ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:08 pm How is she gonna help against people that can literally destroy the universe?
Having the power to destroy the universe isn't everything. You can stop anything and anyone depending upon what components are vital to their success. Not every threat is entirely dependent upon raw power.

jjgp1112 wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:38 pm Dragon Ball's too deep in the game for that shit to make any sense, especially considering the ceiling we see with other humans while Videl is...well, Videl.
Or, Dragon Ball is too deep in the game for shit to even *need* to make any sense. That's not to say that absolutely anything goes, but raise the damn ceiling.

Videl is Videl... until she ain't. Secret alien ancestry, boom. Cybernetics, boom. Spiritual possession, boom. Plus we all know she's a Ki user, so build on that.

goku the krump dancer wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:57 pm How is her being a cop any different from being Great Saiya-woman/Saiyaman 2?
A cop is not a superhero. She can be a police officer in her civilian identity, while Saiyawoman in the other.

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by super michael » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:54 am

If Mr Satan of all people was ordered to fight against Moro Henchmen, I don’t see any reason why Videl can’t fight when she knows how to use her Ki for flying. Videl is more skillful and stronger than Mr Satan.

Although I would rather see Goten and Trunks fight.
Goten and Trunks are more skillful and stronger than Videl, plus they are able to transform something that Videl can’t do. Goten and Trunks can fuse, something that Videl can’t do.

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:36 am

JulieYBM wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:20 pm
ABED wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 10:08 pm How is she gonna help against people that can literally destroy the universe?
The same way Toriyama randomly decided to make the Saiyans geniuses at combat: just because.

Like, what, am I supposed to be afraid of something as stupid as lore and world-building? 'Cause I'm not and I'm going to propose until the end of time that narrative bullshit should always be ignored in favor of writing the stories and character interactions you want to.

I mean, really. Nothing is standing in the way of just saying "Videl still trains and is really talented at ki manipulation" other than sucking off stupid shit like "Uh...Gokuu's entire race can do this and this because plot reasons!"
Hardly random considering Goku was shown to be a wunderkind. It follows that his race would be similar.

Mr. Satan was able fill a role in the narrative that proved important and different. Videl would just be another person adept at Ki. There have to be ways to use her character beyond having her help destroy Buu when she's literally JUST starting to learn about the larger world. If she's helping out, have her do one important thing and that's it, kinda like Yajirobe.

And this whole "she's adept with ki"! She only recently learned what it was. Even if she were preternaturally good with it, how does that equate to her blowing past experts with years of experience in the matter of days/weeks?
Having the power to destroy the universe isn't everything. You can stop anything and anyone depending upon what components are vital to their success. Not every threat is entirely dependent upon raw power.
For example?
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:52 am

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:26 am
goku the krump dancer wrote: Wed Jun 23, 2021 11:57 pm How is her being a cop any different from being Great Saiya-woman/Saiyaman 2?
A cop is not a superhero. She can be a police officer in her civilian identity, while Saiyawoman in the other.
So essentially nothing. The only difference between Saiyawoman Videl and Cop Krillin is that Krillin is getting a paycheck and for Videl its a glorified Hobby.

I initially refrained from commenting on this topic because it was created just as the Mysoginy thread was dying down and there was no need to exert more energy into continuing to spew the same talking points all over again in what's pretty much the same conversation albeit with a much more click baiting title with shame,lame and wasted being typed in all caps (shout out to Dumile :P ).

That being said I think folks put way too much stock in the "potential" that certain side characters may have had. I think it was pretty obvious from the get go that Videl was being geared up to be Gohan's love interest, she being a crime fighting martial artist was just the commonality they shared that allowed them to bond closer. For what Dragon Ball is, her antics as Saiyawoman is just enough spice to make her different from the rest of the lady cast.

I don't see why its so hard to digest that perhaps post Boo she clowned around with Gohan playing Super Hero until she got pregnant then maybe did it more sparingly as Pan got older. Why do we need anything more than that? Why does she have to be dominant over a man just to illustrate some pseudo progression? Why does the story have to bend over backwards and have her keep up with Goku? How many women are actually even asking for something like that? We got strong girls with Kale and Caulifla and yet by and large women still prefer to cosplay Bulma, Chichi, Videl and 18 with the occasional Girlgeta in a thong. I don't think this is nearly as big a deal as some folks like to make it seem.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:27 am

goku the krump dancer wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 10:52 am
Why do we need anything more than that? Why does she have to be dominant over a man just to illustrate some pseudo progression? Why does the story have to bend over backwards and have her keep up with Goku?
Pretty much nobody is asking for any of that? She doesn’t need to be able to keep up with Goku. That’s not the issue. The problem is she starts out as a firecracker and go getter who surpassed her dad in fighting skills at the age of 16 and ends up a homemaker with no personality at all.

For Chi Chi being a housewife is fine because that’s clearly what she always wanted. She wants to be a wife and mother who stays home and cooks and cleans while her husbands provides for the family, and they raise a child together who will become a productive member of society. It also helps that Chi Chi has a personality.

What indication do we have at all that Videl wants to be a housewife other than “well she has a vagina so…” ? She also gets robbed of any personality once she marries Gohan. She doesn’t need to be a domineering wife like Chi Chi, that wouldn’t even make sense because Gohan isn’t Goku. But she should be allowed to have a personality. She spent her youth fighting crime on call from the police why can’t she still do that?

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by coola » Thu Jun 24, 2021 11:55 am

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by DBZAOTA482 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:45 pm

I agree Videl's devolution is much worse than Chi-Chi's. As divisive as her character is, her personality at least didn't change so drastically after marriage.

Videl went from a vigilante with serious fighting pedigree (being the highly talented daughter of a world-class martial artist) to a bland housewife overnight.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Thu Jun 24, 2021 1:17 pm

I definitely think they made Videl so bland and an uninteresting character in Super, because her early appearances in both the manga and anime in Z had her as a girl with some edge to her and is not opposed to getting her hands dirty being a skilled martial artist and the child of Mr. Satan who takes up vigilante crime fighting alongside Gohan a la Batman. Heck, with her fighting skills i could even see her as a martial arts teacher at a dojo or something, given what they show early in the Buu arc. It's really a shame because i just don't really visualize Videl being content with that housewife lifestyle the way Chi Chi is, so it makes no sense why they reduced her to being so.

It's just a waste, there's so much more that they could do with her and it kills me to see Videl sidelined to what she's become.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by Anonymous Friend » Thu Jun 24, 2021 2:35 pm

DBZAOTA482 wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 12:45 pm I agree Videl's devolution is much worse than Chi-Chi's. As divisive as her character is, her personality at least didn't change so drastically after marriage.

Videl went from a vigilante with serious fighting pedigree (being the highly talented daughter of a world-class martial artist) to a bland housewife overnight.
Maybe the fact that her entire life and upbringing was a lie knocked the wind out of those sails.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:05 pm

She could've been a little more spunky though she shouldn't be caustic with Gohan. Also, it feels like a lot of people in here are trying to make her exploits to be a bigger deal in the story than they really are. Mr. Satan is stronger than normal people but he's a nothing even compared to Goku and Yamcha when we first meet them. He's nothing special. And all this talk about Videl being a crime fighter - she fights street level crime and DB isn't that sort of story. It may be fun for some but it's not really what DB is at its core. Videl is stronger than her father but that's not saying much.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:37 pm

ABED wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:05 pm She could've been a little more spunky though she shouldn't be caustic with Gohan. Also, it feels like a lot of people in here are trying to make her exploits to be a bigger deal in the story than they really are. Mr. Satan is stronger than normal people but he's a nothing even compared to Goku and Yamcha when we first meet them. He's nothing special. And all this talk about Videl being a crime fighter - she fights street level crime and DB isn't that sort of story. It may be fun for some but it's not really what DB is at its core. Videl is stronger than her father but that's not saying much.
It’s not even she needs to fight crime but it would be nice for her to have a personality or something and not a checklist of idealistic housewife traits.

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:55 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:37 pm
ABED wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 5:05 pm She could've been a little more spunky though she shouldn't be caustic with Gohan. Also, it feels like a lot of people in here are trying to make her exploits to be a bigger deal in the story than they really are. Mr. Satan is stronger than normal people but he's a nothing even compared to Goku and Yamcha when we first meet them. He's nothing special. And all this talk about Videl being a crime fighter - she fights street level crime and DB isn't that sort of story. It may be fun for some but it's not really what DB is at its core. Videl is stronger than her father but that's not saying much.
It’s not even she needs to fight crime but it would be nice for her to have a personality or something and not a checklist of idealistic housewife traits.
But if being Great Saiyawoman is her "thing" what more do you need? She's barely on screen once she decides to return to the tournament when she admits that she cant keep up so even if she had the most amazing personality ever it doesn't matter since she's not a major factor in the story from that point forward.
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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jun 24, 2021 7:37 pm

goku the krump dancer wrote: Thu Jun 24, 2021 6:55 pm
But if being Great Saiyawoman is her "thing" what more do you need?
You mean that bit that barely factors to the end of the story and doesn’t factor at all in Super? How is that a thing?
She's barely on screen once she decides to return to the tournament when she admits that she cant keep up so even if she had the most amazing personality ever it doesn't matter since she's not a major factor in the story from that point forward.
She gets plenty of screen time.

Do you not see the inherent problem with the series reducing her to a personality less housewife? Especially when she was introduced as spunky and full of energy? There’s a sexism problem with all of the Dragon Ball women Videl just gets hits with it the worst because she’s robbed of any personality once she become a wife and mother.

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Re: It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

Post by goku the krump dancer » Thu Jun 24, 2021 9:19 pm

Even just sticking to Super I can't think of any moment out side of her pregnancy reveal and contribution to the ritual where she played a role on screen that was worth a damn. Anytime we see her she's either relaxing with Gohan or hanging out at a victory barbeque, where is there any time for her to be the same "Spunky Energetic" 17 year old she was when we first meet her?

People do change, in fact no one has the exact same personality they had when we first met them except arguably Goku and maybe Bulma and I think its safe to say Videl had the mildly arrogant demeanor initially because she had no one to humble her up until she met Gohan and then got nearly beaten to death by Spopovich.
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