It’s literally such a SHAME how LAME and WASTED Videl became.

[MyVisionity]

Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan are men. Videl is a woman.

It's not about who's beatdown was worse. It's about what it means to have a female character brutally beaten by a male character and then become "humbled" into quitting fighting, losing a good chunk of personality, and eventually becoming a housewife.

It's very much an issue of gender as much as it is anything else, if not more.

It's absolutely whose beatdown was worse. would it have mattered had it been a female character who did it to her? Her entire personality prior to the tournament was her being suspicious of Gohan and kinda angry at him but the second they admit feelings, why would she continue to act that way? What personality did she lose?

The severity of the beatdown isn't as important as the gender of who was beaten. The fact that it was a woman who was beaten carries a greater significance to it. Especially when the woman is supposedly "humbled" afterwards.

Yes, it would have mattered had it been a female character that attacked her, because then it wouldn't have fallen into the pattern of a male (violently) "putting a woman in her place", or whatever else. However, even if it had been a female attacker, it still would have been misogynistic because the victim is still a female character being "humbled" and so forth.

She had more personality than just her attitude towards Gohan. Videl was tough both in terms of general demeanor and her athleticism. This wouldn't all just disappear because of that one incident. I'm sure it wasn't just Gohan that gave her that attitude. He may have just brought it out of her. At any rate, if the character of Videl was to continue, better writing would result in giving the character at least some kind of better personality than what she received post-Boo arc.

[ABED]

She wasn't being humbled BECAUSE she was a woman.That's the difference here. She was humbled because she was a newbie and finally grasped how much of the world she didn't know. Her sex was incidental. It only seems like a worse beatdown because she's female. Kuririn was tortured by Freeza, quite literally. It was a scene that was ridiculously long, bloody and visceral. Yet, because Videl is female people have a stronger gut reaction to it.

She had more personality than just her attitude towards Gohan. Videl was tough both in terms of general demeanor and her athleticism. This wouldn't all just disappear because of that one incident. I'm sure it wasn't just Gohan that gave her that attitude. He may have just brought it out of her. At any rate, if the character of Videl was to continue, better writing would result in giving the character at least some kind of better personality than what she received post-Boo arc.

She really didn't. Her athleticism only looks great in comparison to the obstacles she was facing, but in comparison to the rest of DB, that's pedestrian. She seems tough because she's fighting ham and eggers. What would you consider her general demeanor to be? I'd like to see her with a little more spunk but I don't really have much in the way of complaints because she has her arc, what left is there for her to do? If she is going to contribute to the story, it can't be as just another fighter. The series was coming to an end so introducing her as a newbie and even with a "she's a wunderkind" it's a hard pill to swallow if she was able to bridge the gap enough to help in a battle between beings that can destroy the universe. Her father ends up being helpful because he was able to find a constructive use of his unearned celebrity. That's clever writing.

[The Monkey King]

The severity of the beatdown isn't as important as the gender of who was beaten. The fact that it was a woman who was beaten carries a greater significance to it. Especially when the woman is supposedly "humbled" afterwards.

Yes, it would have mattered had it been a female character that attacked her, because then it wouldn't have fallen into the pattern of a male (violently) "putting a woman in her place", or whatever else. However, even if it had been a female attacker, it still would have been misogynistic because the victim is still a female character being "humbled" and so forth.

Ironically you're making an argument as to why women have NO PLACE in any shonen battle manga, wherein characters are beaten up and humbled CONSTANTLY

If you have to treat female characters with kid gloves lest you be deemed a "misogynist" then why bother with female characters at all?

This is how we get boring, unlikable Mary Sue characters.

[ABED]

I get the issue people have with her being relegated to housewife and mother, but even assuming she kept her personality when we first meet her, there isn't much else to do with her. I'm all for her fighting crime as Great Saiyawoman or maybe helping Gohan teach normal people ki control, but that's not the body of the story, for lack of a better phrase. That's more like something we are shown in the last few episodes to tell the audience what everyone is up to before the end. Videl as an Indiana Jones type. Okay, but why? How does that fit DB?

[DBZAOTA482]

Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan are men. Videl is a woman.

It's not about who's beatdown was worse. It's about what it means to have a female character brutally beaten by a male character and then become "humbled" into quitting fighting, losing a good chunk of personality, and eventually becoming a housewife.

It's very much an issue of gender as much as it is anything else, if not more.

It's absolutely whose beatdown was worse. would it have mattered had it been a female character who did it to her? Her entire personality prior to the tournament was her being suspicious of Gohan and kinda angry at him but the second they admit feelings, why would she continue to act that way? What personality did she lose?

The severity of the beatdown isn't as important as the gender of who was beaten. The fact that it was a woman who was beaten carries a greater significance to it. Especially when the woman is supposedly "humbled" afterwards.

Yes, it would have mattered had it been a female character that attacked her, because then it wouldn't have fallen into the pattern of a male (violently) "putting a woman in her place", or whatever else. However, even if it had been a female attacker, it still would have been misogynistic because the victim is still a female character being "humbled" and so forth.

She had more personality than just her attitude towards Gohan. Videl was tough both in terms of general demeanor and her athleticism. This wouldn't all just disappear because of that one incident. I'm sure it wasn't just Gohan that gave her that attitude. He may have just brought it out of her. At any rate, if the character of Videl was to continue, better writing would result in giving the character at least some kind of better personality than what she received post-Boo arc.

I'm 100% sure the reason Videl's beating was considered brutal is because she doesn't have super powers so you're basically seeing a pseudo-realistic portrayal of a roided-out man beating up a small teenaged girl.

She's strong really strong when compared to us and those random mooks she used to beat up but she's still well within normal boundaries in context of Dragon Ball.

[ABED]

I agree. I've had the same thought, but I still think her sex is incidental. When Gohan is first introduced, Raditz smacks the living hell out of him and that blow is more visceral than even Freeza trying to crush his skull or when Reacoom snaps his neck.

[MyVisionity]

She wasn't being humbled BECAUSE she was a woman.That's the difference here. She was humbled because she was a newbie and finally grasped how much of the world she didn't know. Her sex was incidental. It only seems like a worse beatdown because she's female.

The reasoning behind Videl being humbled is irrelevant. She is still a woman, regardless. It's misogynistic either way.

I never thought it was necessarily a worse beatdown than the others, just that it carries greater implications for a female than for a male.

Ironically you're making an argument as to why women have NO PLACE in any shonen battle manga, wherein characters are beaten up and humbled CONSTANTLY

If you have to treat female characters with kid gloves lest you be deemed a "misogynist" then why bother with female characters at all?

No one said anything about excluding female characters from battle manga or treating them with kid gloves. Only that stating a female character was "humbled" in a brutal beatdown, like in the case of Spopovich vs Videl, carries some misogynistic implications within that statement. Especially given the direction of Videl's character afterwards which is the topic in the first place.

[JulieYBM]

Black Clover has female characters who fight and have their own storylines. Even when the characters falter it does not do so to frame them without dignity.

The gender ratio in Dragon Ball isn't reverse. It's very much 99% men. The two fights that women get in the Majin Buu arc are a brutal beat down and a gag fight. There are issues there.

[Aim]

Black Clover has female characters who fight and have their own storylines. Even when the characters falter it does not do so to frame them without dignity.

The gender ratio in Dragon Ball isn't reverse. It's very much 99% men. The two fights that women get in the Majin Buu arc are a brutal beat down and a gag fight. There are issues there.

To be fair this was drawn during a different time. Having Kale and Caulifla is a huge breathe of fresh air. I don’t like the stereotypical holding hands thing though they incorporated

[JulieYBM]

Black Clover has female characters who fight and have their own storylines. Even when the characters falter it does not do so to frame them without dignity.

The gender ratio in Dragon Ball isn't reverse. It's very much 99% men. The two fights that women get in the Majin Buu arc are a brutal beat down and a gag fight. There are issues there.

To be fair this was drawn during a different time. Having Kale and Caulifla is a huge breathe of fresh air. I don’t like the stereotypical holding hands thing though they incorporated

There's nothing 'fair' to be given to the work. Progress isn't made giving a fuck about the feelings of oppressors and the beneficiaries of oppression.

Anyway, Kale and Caulifla are gay as fuck. The hand-holding is a sneaky way of getting around queerphobia.

[ABED]

She wasn't being humbled BECAUSE she was a woman.That's the difference here. She was humbled because she was a newbie and finally grasped how much of the world she didn't know. Her sex was incidental. It only seems like a worse beatdown because she's female.

The reasoning behind Videl being humbled is irrelevant. She is still a woman, regardless. It's misogynistic either way.

I never thought it was necessarily a worse beatdown than the others, just that it carries greater implications for a female than for a male.

Ironically you're making an argument as to why women have NO PLACE in any shonen battle manga, wherein characters are beaten up and humbled CONSTANTLY

If you have to treat female characters with kid gloves lest you be deemed a "misogynist" then why bother with female characters at all?

No one said anything about excluding female characters from battle manga or treating them with kid gloves. Only that stating a female character was "humbled" in a brutal beatdown, like in the case of Spopovich vs Videl, carries some misogynistic implications within that statement. Especially given the direction of Videl's character afterwards which is the topic in the first place.

Context is everything.

[goku the krump dancer]

Big BAD misogyny

How is it misogyny and not just equality? If Goku can get beat down by a big strong man that he VOLUNTEERED to fight then so can Videl. If her fight with Spopovich is illustrating underlying contempt for women then 18 embarrassing Vegeta and breaking both his arms is certainly top tier Misandry! DUN DUN DUUUUUUNNNN!!!

[JulieYBM]

Big BAD misogyny

How is it misogyny and not just equality? If Goku can get beat down by a big strong man that he VOLUNTEERED to fight then so can Videl. If her fight with Spopovich is illustrating underlying contempt for women then 18 embarrassing Vegeta and breaking both his arms is certainly top tier Misandry! DUN DUN DUUUUUUNNNN!!!

Misandry isn't real, sir. Men are not oppressed by women for being men. That is not a thing that exists.

You know what does exist, though? Casually thinking that it's okay to only depict women in domestic roles or roles of being an annoyance to male protagonists, especially in a magazine aimed at 'boys' and a general family audience. This has been JUMP's MO for decades and the point of criticizing works of like Dragon Ball is to spread awareness of poor media representation, its harmful effects on those who read it and to try and improve future projects because there is worthwhile in these pieces of art and making easy fixes like "not hating minorities and women" are a first step.

[GatoF]

She lost her personality and became a housewife...I think she could have turned into both a fighter and a housewife but they didn't want to develop her at all.
I have hope for her daughter Pan in DBS or a possible sequel, she should be much stronger than her GT counterpart.

[JulieYBM]

My two favorite Videl moments are in Super, ironically enough. Standing up to Chi-Chi and Barry are her coolest moments! I wish she'd gotten a Shida fight against Barry! Aah, that would have been so cool!

[Cure Dragon 255]

I think it could have been super COOL! Videl can be awesome in her own way, she doesnt need to beat Jiren.

[SSJgogeto]

I think that change in her personality started after the fight with Spopovich. After that, at least in the manga, she was never the same from before, IMO.

[Aim]

Black Clover has female characters who fight and have their own storylines. Even when the characters falter it does not do so to frame them without dignity.

The gender ratio in Dragon Ball isn't reverse. It's very much 99% men. The two fights that women get in the Majin Buu arc are a brutal beat down and a gag fight. There are issues there.

To be fair this was drawn during a different time. Having Kale and Caulifla is a huge breathe of fresh air. I don’t like the stereotypical holding hands thing though they incorporated

There's nothing 'fair' to be given to the work. Progress isn't made giving a fuck about the feelings of oppressors and the beneficiaries of oppression.

Anyway, Kale and Caulifla are gay as fuck. The hand-holding is a sneaky way of getting around queerphobia.

You can criticise, but it doesn’t change the times this manga was drawn, it’s absolutely fair to expect Toriyama wouldn’t write anything progressive. Also I highly doubt Kale and Caulifla were meant to be lovers.

I’d rather keep to the original style of DB and keep this love stuff out of it. Introducing two female characters that are lesbians in a series that is primarily watched by men is most likely not LGBT friendly, it’s just an excuse to draw porn of these two characters. There’s no progression here, just more bullshit marketed as “LGBTQ friendly” by capitalists, what would be better is to counter the rampant homophobia that is in this community by adding in two masc characters that are gay or are alluded to being gay. This Kale and Caulifla relationship is just men doing what they do best and saying “LGBT friendly! Only when it’s women though straight men ONLY >:(“

[PurestEvil]

Misandry isn't real, sir. Men are not oppressed by women for being men. That is not a thing that exists.

That is some "Power+prejudice" deception.
An argument can be made about the asymmetry between misogyny and misandry, but denial is objectively wrong. I suppose those radfems who say "all men are trash" or that they want to abort male fetuses do not exist.

[ABED]

much of her spunky personality was due to her ignorance and dealing with people she didn't know. Once she got to know the Son family and more about the wider world, I don't see why she would be the same.