Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153

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SuperSaiyaManZ94
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Sat May 08, 2021 7:09 pm

KBABZ wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 4:36 pm
Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 3:06 pm But the way you phrased it is as if Goku really is that way.
He is that way as presented in the anime for that moment.

By this point, it's no secret that there are at least five different Gokus. There's emotional impulse Toriyama Kid Goku, there childishly nostalgic Toei Kid Goku, there's "I want a good fight but will fight for blood if you hurt people" Goku, there's "I'm a hero" Toei Goku, and then there's "I'm a fight-seeking buffoon" Super Goku.

Toriyama has stated in the past that Toei's interpretation of Goku has always been a bit more heroic than he feels he really is, and that's not considering how his personality changes over time. For Toriyama Goku's a character who is less heroic and more able to be criticized by the audience compared to Toei's, who is treated a bit more as a straight hero (but not nearly as much as Funi's dub, of course).

So with that in mind, yeah, you can call Goku an asshole for that moment in the anime, especially given how prominent the anime is over the manga that makes it more than worth discussing as its own entity separate from the manga.
Unless i'm mistaken i heard that Toei's writers wasn't exactly fond of Toriyama's interpretation and thus rewrote Goku accordingly into the more heroic character that we see in the anime.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Sat May 08, 2021 8:19 pm

Maybe a strike to the stomach or the back of the head would have been preferable? So he just loses consciousness instead.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Sat May 08, 2021 8:29 pm

Stop... just... Stop.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Sun May 09, 2021 12:43 am

MyVisionity wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 8:19 pm Maybe a strike to the stomach or the back of the head would have been preferable? So he just loses consciousness instead.
Since you don't get it at this point, I'm just going to say it straight up:

Hitting children is bad.

Goku is a master martial artist at that point, there were many different things he could have done to stop Gohan from leaving. Instant Transmission-ing in front of him, holding him by the arm, pushing him back with a kiai, etc. Toei had a thousand different options to have Goku stop Gohan from leaving, but instead they went straight to child abuse. Hitting children is something a villain does to prove to the audience that they're evil and shouldn't be liked, such as the scene on Namek where Vegeta kneed Gohan in the gut for no reason simply because he can. It is not something the all-loving hero and father figure should do to his own son.

The only instance I can think of that is remotely justifiable is Vegeta with Trunks and Goten before his sacrifice with Buu, and that's for a variety of reasons not present in the scene with Goku and Gohan.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun May 09, 2021 1:06 am

Well you also have to consider societal views of discipline were a little different back then (and well, still pretty much the same in black households ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). I know I didn't even blink at that scene, and I was never even spanked as a child.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Sun May 09, 2021 1:48 am

KBABZ wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:43 am Hitting children is bad.
But just because something is "bad", doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

KBABZ wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:43 am Goku is a master martial artist at that point, there were many different things he could have done to stop Gohan from leaving. Instant Transmission-ing in front of him, holding him by the arm, pushing him back with a kiai, etc.
Who's gonna go to all that trouble when they can just knock them in the face? Goku is a simple minded guy. He's not concerned about the finer moral details.

KBABZ wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:43 am It is not something the all-loving hero and father figure should do to his own son.
Who says that heroes can't do questionable things? Goku's no saint.

You could argue that what Goku did was very much in line with being a "father figure". But even if not, families are not perfect.

Gohan being Goku's own son makes it all the more appropriate, since he is blood and not some unrelated kid.

KBABZ wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:43 am The only instance I can think of that is remotely justifiable is Vegeta with Trunks and Goten before his sacrifice with Buu.
Which is why I suggested that Goku could have done the same to Gohan, even if the circumstances might differ.


All that said, I guess I could understand how a display of child abuse in a children's cartoon is a problematic thing. I'm just not sure if I can hold Goku's actions against him like that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon May 10, 2021 6:44 am

MyVisionity wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 1:48 am
KBABZ wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 12:43 am Hitting children is bad.
But just because something is "bad", doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.
This isn't an okay thing to say. You need to seriously re-evaluate your morals and outlook if you think it's perfectly fine for a grown adult to hit an eight year-old on a show intended for children and still be perceived as the hero, you have deep issues.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 70 - DBZ 149-153 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Mon May 10, 2021 7:18 am

God! My Visionity you have BAD TAKE upon BAD TAKE.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
90sDBZ wrote: Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:44 pm19 years ago I was rushing home from school to watch DBZ on Cartoon Network, and today I've rushed home from work to watch DBS on Pop. I guess it's true the more things change the more they stay the same. :lol:

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