Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

Mireya
Banned Alternate Account
Posts: 325
Joined: Wed Jan 22, 2020 6:08 pm

Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by Mireya » Sat May 08, 2021 12:56 pm

Which one do you use and where do they originate? I know that Kame is turtle. What about Roshi?

User avatar
jjgp1112
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7478
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by jjgp1112 » Sat May 08, 2021 1:07 pm

Kame-Senin roughly translates to Turtle Hermit, and that's the title most characters use towards him in the Japanese version. Muten Roshi is a title that means something like "Invincible Old Master," basically Akira Toriyama combining fancy kanji to get across the idea that he's a mystical, prestigiuous figure in martial arts. Muten Roshi is his more formal title, while Kame Senin appears to be his regular identifier.

I use Master Roshi because of the dub, even if Turtle Hermit is more correct.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

JewyB
Beyond Newbie
Posts: 299
Joined: Mon May 28, 2018 4:25 pm

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by JewyB » Sat May 08, 2021 1:45 pm

I think a lot of peopel will be in the "Master Roshi" camp, just out of habit, and then, for the sake of convenience, just "Roshi", so i guess i'd have to go with Muten Roshi on this one.

I very rarely refer to him as Kame-sennin or The Turtle Hermit.

User avatar
MasenkoHA
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6201
Joined: Fri Feb 24, 2017 9:38 pm

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat May 08, 2021 2:40 pm

Muten Roshi is his name. Kame Sennin is his title.

MyVisionity
Banned
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:51 pm
Location: US

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by MyVisionity » Sat May 08, 2021 7:59 pm

I think that Herms sums it up well enough in one of his old guide threads:

Muten Roushi (Kame-sennin)
武/mu stands for all things martial, while 天/ten means “heaven” and 老師/roushi means an old master or teacher. For the name “Kame-sennin”, 亀/kame means “turtle”, while 仙人/sennin is a type of sage or saint in Japanese folklore. To quote the Encyclopedia Mythica: “The immortal spirit of a saint living in the mountains in Japanese mythology. This saint, a hermit, who has acquired so much merit by his asceticism that he can perform miracles, such as speaking after death, flying on the back of a tortoise or on a cloud, or causing a gourd to give birth to a horse. Sennins may speak to mortals in dreams or appear in the shape of ordinary men. They are accompanied by their familiars: a toad, a horse, or a tortoise.” The Japanese sennins are derived from the Xian of Chinese Daoism.
Toriyama Explanation: “There really isn’t any great reason; ‘Kame-sennin’ just didn’t seem like all that amazing a name for whatever reason, so I thought up a name that sounded suitably renowned and powerful.” [DBF]

I normally just call him "Roshi" most of the time. Also, I personally think that his original name is probably unknown. "Muten" sounds like a name that he took at some point after he mastered the martial arts.

precita
Banned
Posts: 6037
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 3:10 pm

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by precita » Sat May 08, 2021 8:07 pm

Probably one of the few times I prefer the dub name, even if FUNI's translations make no sense. Seems they thought Roshi was his actually name. And changed "Muten" to "Master" because most old sensei are called "Master" in society.

User avatar
Cursed Lemon
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1377
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 5:29 pm
Location: Location, Location
Contact:

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by Cursed Lemon » Sat May 08, 2021 11:07 pm

So wait, does Master Roshi not have an actual given name? lol

EDIT: Apparently so.
Like his rival, Master Shen, Master Roshi is not given a real name in the original Japanese version, as Kamesennin and Muten Rōshi are both merely titles meaning "Turtle Hermit" and "Old Heavenly Martial Arts Master", respectively.
Special Beam Cannon!

(゚Д゚)σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃

User avatar
Soppa Saia People
I Live Here
Posts: 3062
Joined: Sun Aug 09, 2015 11:26 pm
Location: Minnesota

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by Soppa Saia People » Sat May 08, 2021 11:32 pm

karin is the only one of goku's masters in the original manga to really have a name, which definitely has been lost in translation, not that i think it was intentional on toriyama's part.
I have borderline personality disorder, if my posts ever come off as aggressive or word vomit-y to you, please let me know.

🇵🇸🇵🇸🇵🇸

User avatar
Aim
Banned
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by Aim » Mon May 10, 2021 3:47 am

Mireya wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:56 pm Which one do you use and where do they originate? I know that Kame is turtle. What about Roshi?
The name is Turtle Hermit or Muten Roshi therefore I use it, sticking to a nonsensical name for the sake of it is something I can only really imagine doing if I had a brain injury and was too stubborn move past that bullshit, while I was at it I’d probably just rewrite the entire series as well and keep the name.

To answer the question, yes, it’s Turtle Hermit. Master Roshi sounds like Roshi is his actual name, it really doesn’t stick well to what is intended.

Vijay
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1423
Joined: Fri Sep 06, 2013 9:48 am

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by Vijay » Mon May 10, 2021 4:05 am

Cursed Lemon wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:07 pm So wait, does Master Roshi not have an actual given name? lol

EDIT: Apparently so.
Like his rival, Master Shen, Master Roshi is not given a real name in the original Japanese version, as Kamesennin and Muten Rōshi are both merely titles meaning "Turtle Hermit" and "Old Heavenly Martial Arts Master", respectively.
ROFL yo 😂 to think all these years no one actually bothered abt his name and such🤣

I address him as Roshi. And yeah, I think I've mentioned this few times before. Always wanted proper backstory of Roshi & his relationship with Mutaito Sama. Would be nice to watch at least.

pepd
Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
Posts: 385
Joined: Mon Apr 06, 2020 6:52 pm

Re: Kame-sennin vs Muten Roshi

Post by pepd » Mon May 10, 2021 5:20 am

Roshi of "Master Roshi" stuck in my mind, so I mostly use Muten Roshi, but when recently exposed to "Kame Sennin" I use that too. I never thought about it, but I think I prefer Kame Sennin (and now will probably end up using it more unconsciously)

Post Reply