How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

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super michael
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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by super michael » Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:02 am

BWri when Gotenks trains doesn’t Goten and Trunks retain any knowledge and gains as individual? I mean if Goten and Trunks powering up individual = Gotenks gets stronger, then shouldn’t the reverse be true also? If Gotenks trains and he gains new skills and power up, should that power go to the individual.

Surely Gotenks power gain by training doesn’t just disappear and not go anywhere.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by kyppk » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:27 am

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:02 am Surely Gotenks power gain by training doesn’t just disappear and not go anywhere.
It seems like they should make gains, but I don't think there's a case that suggests that actually happens. Vegeta and Goku never pickup each others moves or gain any noticeable/meaningful amount of power after any fusing/de-fusing, the closest I can think of is when Vegeta uses something similar to the Spirit Sword in the ToP. Similarly, Goten and Trunks don't pickup each others moves and nether uses the special ki attacks or transformations used by Gotenks, that I can recall anyway.

Perhaps the limited amount of time hampers the ability for them to increase their power and only really allows them to learn to use what new power they've gained efficiently. Or their childish behavior diminishes the potential gains they could work for to the point that defusing gives them nothing.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by super michael » Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:53 am

kyppk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:27 am
super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:02 am Surely Gotenks power gain by training doesn’t just disappear and not go anywhere.
It seems like they should make gains, but I don't think there's a case that suggests that actually happens. Vegeta and Goku never pickup each others moves or gain any noticeable/meaningful amount of power after any fusing/de-fusing, the closest I can think of is when Vegeta uses something similar to the Spirit Sword in the ToP. Similarly, Goten and Trunks don't pickup each others moves and nether uses the special ki attacks or transformations used by Gotenks, that I can recall anyway.

Perhaps the limited amount of time hampers the ability for them to increase their power and only really allows them to learn to use what new power they've gained efficiently. Or their childish behavior diminishes the potential gains they could work for to the point that defusing gives them nothing.
Goku and Vegeta has never trained while they fuse, that is what makes Goten and Trunks different.
Gotenks trained while Vegito and Gogeta never trained.

We haven’t seen Goten and Trunks fight as individual since they battled C18 in a costume in the manga. In DBS manga we only see them fight Cell Jr in one panel and only hand to hand combat.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by kyppk » Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:55 am

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:53 am Goku and Vegeta has never trained while they fuse, that is what makes Goten and Trunks different.
Gotenks trained while Vegito and Gogeta never trained.
That is true, but we've seen instances where single fights are enough to raise ones power noticeably.

It's also somewhat interesting to think and note that Vegito can and does go Blue right away, Gogeta goes Blue in his single appearance (but not UI, a form Vegeta doesn't have), while Goten and Trunks needed to fuse as SSJ in order to become SSJ Gotenks. This suggests fusions can go to the highest level that both fusee's can, but in Gotenks case there is something that prevented him from doing so until he experienced it himself.

It's all conjecture at this point but my theory is that because Goten and Trunks weren't as disciplined as Goku and Vegeta they experienced something like Goku!Ginyu where Gotenks couldn't manifest his true power even though he had the capabilities to do so from the beginning and thus any/all training didn't increase his power it just allowed him to use more of what he had. Hence why despite Gotenks training and eventually unlocking SSJ3, and probably SSJ2, neither of the boys can transform to that level or are ever shown to be any stronger themselves.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by BWri » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:12 am

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 6:02 am BWri when Gotenks trains doesn’t Goten and Trunks retain any knowledge and gains as individual? I mean if Goten and Trunks powering up individual = Gotenks gets stronger, then shouldn’t the reverse be true also? If Gotenks trains and he gains new skills and power up, should that power go to the individual.

Surely Gotenks power gain by training doesn’t just disappear and not go anywhere.
Neither can go SSJ2 or SSJ3 on their own so that inherently dampers that idea. I'd like to think that some knowledge and skills backtrack but its too inconsistent to say that that's how it works.

I always thought that Gotenks' powerful magical body allowed him to do things that the boys couldn't normally do, something like a limit break, but now I'm starting to think that fusions are truly their own beings with the skills and memories of the prior fusees.

I'm not sure about the power gain. I always thought the boys powered up by sparring against one another and tried out/mastered new techniques as Gotenks since his energy seems limitless in comparison.
kyppk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:27 am Vegeta and Goku never pickup each others moves or gain any noticeable/meaningful amount of power after any fusing/de-fusing, the closest I can think of is when Vegeta uses something similar to the Spirit Sword in the ToP.
I thought about this. Maybe it was a Vegeta move all along or maybe he just picked it up from Zamasu. No confirmation either way.
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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by super michael » Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:22 am

kyppk wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:55 am
super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 8:53 am Goku and Vegeta has never trained while they fuse, that is what makes Goten and Trunks different.
Gotenks trained while Vegito and Gogeta never trained.
That is true, but we've seen instances where single fights are enough to raise ones power noticeably.

It's also somewhat interesting to think and note that Vegito can and does go Blue right away, Gogeta goes Blue in his single appearance (but not UI, a form Vegeta doesn't have), while Goten and Trunks needed to fuse as SSJ in order to become SSJ Gotenks. This suggests fusions can go to the highest level that both fusee's can, but in Gotenks case there is something that prevented him from doing so until he experienced it himself.

It's all conjecture at this point but my theory is that because Goten and Trunks weren't as disciplined as Goku and Vegeta they experienced something like Goku!Ginyu where Gotenks couldn't manifest his true power even though he had the capabilities to do so from the beginning and thus any/all training didn't increase his power it just allowed him to use more of what he had. Hence why despite Gotenks training and eventually unlocking SSJ3, and probably SSJ2, neither of the boys can transform to that level or are ever shown to be any stronger themselves.
When Gotenks first fused no Saiyan thought it was possible for a base Saiyan to transform, that is why it was a huge deal when Gotenks discovered that it was possible to transform.

When Vegito and Gogeta appeared they knew they could transform, unlike Gotenks they had to discover it.

Goku didn’t have access to UI when he fused with Vegeta.

When Vegito defused against Zamasu, Vegeta knew that Goku was hiding MSSB.

I think what Goten and Trunks lack isn’t knowledge or skills, but the power level to transform.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by BWri » Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:46 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:22 am When Gotenks first fused no Saiyan thought it was possible for a base Saiyan to transform, that is why it was a huge deal when Gotenks discovered that it was possible to transform.

When Vegito and Gogeta appeared they knew they could transform, unlike Gotenks they had to discover it.

Goku didn’t have access to UI when he fused with Vegeta.

When Vegito defused against Zamasu, Vegeta knew that Goku was hiding MSSB.

I think what Goten and Trunks lack isn’t knowledge or skills, but the power level to transform.
Well said. I still think the skill sharing is too inconsistent to be official, but there is at least some knowledge or memories that they take back with them in their solo forms.

I don't think Goten or Trunks lack the power for SSJ2, I just think they lack the skill to do it.

So let's just say for the sake of convenience that they have complete access to Gotenks memories and everything he learned, let's say they learned it too. I think for them, it would be like watching something on TV.

So they'd have the knowledge of the technique but not the muscle memory. They'd still have to practice it on their own to properly use it. I think this applies to all of Gotenks seemingly exclusive techniques as well as SSJ2 and SSJ3.
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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by super michael » Wed Jun 23, 2021 8:01 am

BWri wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 4:46 pm
super michael wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:22 am When Gotenks first fused no Saiyan thought it was possible for a base Saiyan to transform, that is why it was a huge deal when Gotenks discovered that it was possible to transform.

When Vegito and Gogeta appeared they knew they could transform, unlike Gotenks they had to discover it.

Goku didn’t have access to UI when he fused with Vegeta.

When Vegito defused against Zamasu, Vegeta knew that Goku was hiding MSSB.

I think what Goten and Trunks lack isn’t knowledge or skills, but the power level to transform.
Well said. I still think the skill sharing is too inconsistent to be official, but there is at least some knowledge or memories that they take back with them in their solo forms.

I don't think Goten or Trunks lack the power for SSJ2, I just think they lack the skill to do it.

So let's just say for the sake of convenience that they have complete access to Gotenks memories and everything he learned, let's say they learned it too. I think for them, it would be like watching something on TV.

So they'd have the knowledge of the technique but not the muscle memory. They'd still have to practice it on their own to properly use it. I think this applies to all of Gotenks seemingly exclusive techniques as well as SSJ2 and SSJ3.
It wouldn't be inconsistant if we saw Goten and Trunks fight enemies and we can see what skills they can and can't use. If they battled enemies, they would have to go all out and we would know everything.

I guess it is unknown if they know the skills how to transform into SS2 and SS3.

I like your example of them having the knowledge but their body lacks the muscle memory. I like the idea of them needing to train as individual to get that muscle memory.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Jun 27, 2021 7:52 pm

Gotenks would be as strong as Trunks thinks and could Super Buu as a regular super saiyan.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by Peach » Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:49 pm

Goten and Trunks would be as strong Future Trunks was in the Cell games at bare mimimum. Most likely on the verge of Super Saiyan 2, if not there already. I think Future Trunks did most of his training solo in the Time Chamber due to Vegeta's personality at the time. So they would probably be stronger than Trunks was at the Cell games, due to having training partners.

As for Gottenks? I think he would be stronger than Super Vegito in his Super Saiyan 3 state. Slightly weaker than him as a Super Saiyan.

If Goten and Trunks trained rigorously for even longer than one year, they may be able to get as high as Super Saiyan Rage. A form with stamina and strength even higher than blue.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:04 am

Peach wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:49 pm Goten and Trunks would be as strong Future Trunks was in the Cell games at bare mimimum. Most likely on the verge of Super Saiyan 2, if not there already. I think Future Trunks did most of his training solo in the Time Chamber due to Vegeta's personality at the time. So they would probably be stronger than Trunks was at the Cell games, due to having training partners.

As for Gottenks? I think he would be stronger than Super Vegito in his Super Saiyan 3 state. Slightly weaker than him as a Super Saiyan.

If Goten and Trunks trained rigorously for even longer than one year, they may be able to get as high as Super Saiyan Rage. A form with stamina and strength even higher than blue.
Goten and Trunks are stronger than CG Trunks pre rosat.

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Re: How strong would Goten, Trunks and Gotenks be if they trained 1 year instead of 1 week?

Post by Peach » Tue Jun 29, 2021 11:02 am

miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Jun 29, 2021 1:04 am
Peach wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 11:49 pm Goten and Trunks would be as strong Future Trunks was in the Cell games at bare mimimum. Most likely on the verge of Super Saiyan 2, if not there already. I think Future Trunks did most of his training solo in the Time Chamber due to Vegeta's personality at the time. So they would probably be stronger than Trunks was at the Cell games, due to having training partners.

As for Gottenks? I think he would be stronger than Super Vegito in his Super Saiyan 3 state. Slightly weaker than him as a Super Saiyan.

If Goten and Trunks trained rigorously for even longer than one year, they may be able to get as high as Super Saiyan Rage. A form with stamina and strength even higher than blue.
Goten and Trunks are stronger than CG Trunks pre rosat.
I guess they'd be even stronger than I gave them credit for then lol.

When you really think about it, the only thing that really holds the hybrid Saiyans back from surpassing their fathers is their personalities and obligations. Future Trunks surpassed Goku and Vegeta with a Super Saiyan 2 rage mutation. Imagine just HOW FAR these stronger child super saiyans (including Gohan) could go if they trained constantly. Their Super Saiyan 2 potentials alone seem to be on par with god forms.

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