Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 74 - DBZ 169, movie 8

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

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That's NOT a flimsy excuse. The metal arms told me to or whatever the hell Doc Ock's was is flimsy, but people claim he was 3 dimensional because he had a dead wife. Most supervillains have fairly cliched or dumb motives when you look at them with any sort of scrutiny.

People also claim Spider-man 2 was great despite it being terrible, even in 2004. But that’s not neither here nor there.

Nothing inherently wrong with simple villains (that’s pretty much the entire Dragon Ball rogues gallery) I think Doctor Octopus motivation in the comics amounted to “and then the radiation made him crazy or something”

And as far as Eddie's motives, that's a fantastic one. Most real life villains have BS motives when it boils right down to it. It's appropriate given it's the anniversary of the incident but look up Killdozer if you haven't. That guy's motives were downright dumb.

He has an intense hatred for Spider-man who he’s never actually crossed paths with. There’s a good reason every adaptation built on an animosity between Peter and Eddie and not going the “Remember me? The guy whose life you ruined and never met??!?” path


At any rate the Venom and Broly comparison goes beyond “weak or not weak” motivation.

Indeed, and personally out of the Tobey Maguire Spidey films i find 2 the weakest and most lacking of the bunch. 1 and 3 i definitely prefer much more.

As to Broly, maybe his beef/hatred/whatever of Goku is something to do with their both being Super Saiyans (Though the former discovered his true power long before Goku did) and there was some innate thing he held due to this owing to his Saiyan nature. I know the film is rather vague as to what's making Broly tick, though it is certainly a possibility.

[MyVisionity]

Yes please don't judge Spidey villains based upon those Raimi films.

Also having Brock hate Pete instead of Spider-Man is juvenile to me and really only that way because the cartoon wanted to simplify things for children. A lot of comic book based cartoons would do that where the villains now have personal relationships with the hero's civilian identity instead of their costumed one for the kids.

And even if Brock had never met Spidey, the symbiote already knew and hated him for rejecting it.

As for Brolli, I see it as he and Goku are both supposed to be the legendary Super Saiyans and so there being two of them instead of one naturally means they are in conflict with one another.

The crying thing is just symbolism.

I notice that Toei's English title for this film is "The Burning Battles". I wish Funimation had gone with something like that instead of the same old "insert the villain name here" lazy bs.

[ABED]

I happen to like those movies.

In any event, I still wouldn't consider there to be much of a parallel between the two characters other than they look cool and audiences took to them.

As for Brolli, I see it as he and Goku are both supposed to be the legendary Super Saiyans and so there being two of them instead of one naturally means they are in conflict with one another.

The crying thing is just symbolism.

This just comes across as trying to make it seem deeper than it actually is. Does Broly ever implicitly or explicitly seem to care about any of that?

[MasenkoHA]

Also having Brock hate Pete instead of Spider-Man is juvenile to me and really only that way because the cartoon wanted to simplify things for children. A lot of comic book based cartoons would do that where the villains now have personal relationships with the hero's civilian identity instead of their costumed one for the kids.

It wasn’t just the 90s cartoon. The Ultimate Spider-man comics continuity and Spider-man 3 also took to the idea of Eddie knowing Peter before he became Venom.

But I digress

As for Brolli, I see it as he and Goku are both supposed to be the legendary Super Saiyans and so there being two of them instead of one naturally means they are in conflict with one another.

There’s no reason to think Broly knows this or cares. Goku was written off as a loser on Planet Vegeta. All the Saiyans living on earth could turn Super Saiyan at this point.

I notice that Toei's English title for this film is "The Burning Battles". I wish Funimation had gone with something like that instead of the same old "insert the villain name here" lazy bs.

Burning Battles is a random title that indicates nothing of the movie’s plot or anything. It’s just random words. Even the last movie title “The 3 Super Saiyans” was acknowledging there was 3 of them now.

I’m not a fan of uninspired titles like “Lord Slug” or “Super Android 13” but Legendary Super Saiyan is a perfectly fine title.

[WittyUsername]

Most of the titles Toei used for the DBZ were pretty uninspired and sound more like exclamations than movie titles. There’s a reason fans usually just refer to them as ‘Movie Insert Number Here.’

[MyVisionity]

Also having Brock hate Pete instead of Spider-Man is juvenile to me and really only that way because the cartoon wanted to simplify things for children. A lot of comic book based cartoons would do that where the villains now have personal relationships with the hero's civilian identity instead of their costumed one for the kids.

It wasn’t just the 90s cartoon. The Ultimate Spider-man comics continuity and Spider-man 3 also took to the idea of Eddie knowing Peter before he became Venom.

Yes but they were all most likely inspired by the 90s Animated Series. Either way it's them simplifying the plots for audiences and/or them trying to make the relationships more personalized for the narrative which while somewhat understandable can also be a bit insulting but anyways..

As for Brolli, I see it as he and Goku are both supposed to be the legendary Super Saiyans and so there being two of them instead of one naturally means they are in conflict with one another.

This just comes across as trying to make it seem deeper than it actually is. Does Broly ever implicitly or explicitly seem to care about any of that?

There’s no reason to think Broly knows this or cares. Goku was written off as a loser on Planet Vegeta. All the Saiyans living on earth could turn Super Saiyan at this point.

He doesn't have to know any of it. It's instinctive. The story tells us that Goku and Brolli were born on the same day. That implies the connection between them. The series had originally indicated that there was suppose to be only one legendary Super Saiyan. Of course this turned out to be false after the Freeza saga, but this film is picking up on that old thread. Goku and Brolli are the two "Legendary Super Saiyans", and because it's really suppose to just be one, Brolli hates Goku. It's just cosmic or nature or whatever. That's how I've always interpreted it.

Burning Battles is a random title that indicates nothing of the movie’s plot or anything. It’s just random words. Even the last movie title “The 3 Super Saiyans” was acknowledging there was 3 of them now.

I’m not a fan of uninspired titles like “Lord Slug” or “Super Android 13” but Legendary Super Saiyan is a perfectly fine title.

Burning Battles is anything but random. There are one two three four *five* Super Saiyans in this movie, all fighting one another. That's where the "burning" part comes in, since they are Super Saiyans and "on fire". That, and you have Brolli's rage burning within him. I'm sure there's more...

"Legendary Super Saiyan" wouldn't be such a bad title if it didn't have the "Broly" part stuck in there. Not only is it lazy, but it actually spoils the movie's plot.

[MasenkoHA]

He doesn't have to know any of it. It's instinctive. The story tells us that Goku and Brolli were born on the same day. That implies the connection between them. The series had originally indicated that there was suppose to be only one legendary Super Saiyan. Of course this turned out to be false after the Freeza saga, but this film is picking up on that old thread. Goku and Brolli are the two "Legendary Super Saiyans", and because it's really suppose to just be one, Brolli hates Goku. It's just cosmic or nature or whatever. That's how I've always interpreted it.

Are we seriously at the point where we’re arguing “Nuh uh Broly doesn’t hate Goku because he cried he hates him because they were born on the same day! That’s totally better!!!! For some reason!”

[ABED]

"Legendary Super Saiyan" wouldn't be such a bad title if it didn't have the "Broly" part stuck in there. Not only is it lazy, but it actually spoils the movie's plot.

I kinda see your point but considering the film wasn't sold as a mystery, but built around the unstoppable monster, I don't think it's really giving away anything.