"Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Neo-Makaiōshin
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Neo-Makaiōshin » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:16 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:24 pmThat kind of murder is normal in war-gore fiction. Crushing heads and impaling chests is not "evil".

Kenshiro does a lot worse stuff in Hokuto no Ken, and he's the damn savior of the world! Just because the antagonists are the ones doing it does not make it automatically become evil. It's just that audiences are so use to villains and evil characters doing extreme violence that they tend to just associate it with "evil".
CONTEXT!!!

Kenshiro doesn't go with the intention to kill the first person he comes across on the street just because, he does kill but againts others explicitely bad guys that attack people with the intention to kill/hurt.
MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:24 pm I don't believe that killing anything and everything that gets in the way of your objective is necessarily evil. Was Arnold or the Terminators evil for doing what they did? They were the "bad guys" of the films, and did questionable things, but that's not the same as being evil.
Not interacting with reallity must have broken your moral compass if you're saying this even slightly seriously.
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by precita » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:18 pm

Probably because these days you have to "up the evil." All villains in fiction kill people, it's expected. A villain killing an innocent human is "par the course" these days. You have to go even above that to be truly evil these days, and do something truly despicable. Dr. Gero, for all intents and purposes, was just a cartoon mad scientist.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 29, 2021 9:43 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:24 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:54 am
MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:21 am No, those murders by #20 in the city were not inherently evil.

Yes they were. Seriously, what the fuck?

That kind of murder is normal in war-gore fiction. Crushing heads and impaling chests is not "evil".

It was a completely innocent bystander. Again I cannot stress this enough seriously what the fuck?
I don't believe that killing anything and everything that gets in the way of your objective is necessarily evil.

Holy red flag for sociopathy, Batman!

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by JulieYBM » Thu Jul 29, 2021 10:13 pm

This Kiramager fight scene is so cool! Incan just imagine this sort of scene for the assault on the Red Ribbon Army HQ! https://twitter.com/PantyRanger/status/ ... 25056?s=19
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:02 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:50 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:24 pm
That kind of murder is normal in war-gore fiction. Crushing heads and impaling chests is not "evil".
My man, we're not talking about war. We're talking about a guy walking into oncoming traffic on a weekday morning and beheading the driver who bumped into him for shits and giggles.
Fair enough. If it were indeed for shiggles, then I suppose you could argue that it was an evil act. The Yamcha thing, on the other hand, wasn't evil. That was war. He was an enemy combatant, and Gero had to take him out.

But my larger point, however, is that generally speaking, crushing heads and impaling chests are not evil acts. Not in and of themselves.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:05 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:02 pm
But my larger point, however, is that generally speaking, crushing heads and impaling chests are not evil acts. Not in and of themselves.
What.


The.

Fuck

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by jjgp1112 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:44 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:02 pm
jjgp1112 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 8:50 pm
MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:24 pm
That kind of murder is normal in war-gore fiction. Crushing heads and impaling chests is not "evil".
My man, we're not talking about war. We're talking about a guy walking into oncoming traffic on a weekday morning and beheading the driver who bumped into him for shits and giggles.
Fair enough. If it were indeed for shiggles, then I suppose you could argue that it was an evil act. The Yamcha thing, on the other hand, wasn't evil. That was war. He was an enemy combatant, and Gero had to take him out.

But my larger point, however, is that generally speaking, crushing heads and impaling chests are not evil acts. Not in and of themselves.
What is this obtuse, compartmentalized logic you operate under? It's not evil of Gero to kill Yamcha because of some nonsensical "war" doctrine? Where they do that at? So what, if somebody held some grudge against a family member of yours for inconveniencing them and killed them, it's not evil? Are you aware of how completely stupid or sociopathic you sound?

In what world is trying to kill somebody for being associated with a guy who put a stop to your CRIMINAL activities not evil?

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:44 pm It's not evil of Gero to kill Yamcha because of some nonsensical "war" doctrine? Where they do that at?

In what world is trying to kill somebody for being associated with a guy who put a stop to your CRIMINAL activities not evil?
Like I've said before, they are all martial artists. That is the context and those are the circumstances that the entire series operates under. Yamcha was a warrior in opposition to Gero, not just a friend of Goku's. Trying to kill Yamcha was neither personal nor was it an evil act. It was combat.

Who cares if Gero was a criminal? That certainly doesn't make someone evil, nor does it make your subsequent actions evil.

As for Freeza and Kuririn, actually, that's right. It was war, and Kuririn was the enemy. That particular act wasn't evil, even though we know that Freeza himself is. And I never said that anyone should be let off the hook for their actions, just that it wasn't evil.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by jjgp1112 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:02 am

Oh, excuse me, I said criminal. I meant member of terrorist organization that killed people and wanted to subjugate the entire planet.

Dr. Gero is trying to kill Yamcha because of a grudge against his friend. He wants to kill him for no other reason than to have no opposition when he takes over the world. Even in the series, these "martial artists" aren't okay with killing people who aren't in any position to defend themselves. It's not even goddamn implicit in Dragon Ball or ANY piece of martial arts fiction for that matter that people like Frieza and Gero and Cell and so on are so forth sully and corrupt the name of martial arts by taking it beyond sport and self-improvement, and instead fight to maim and kill. That was literally the entire basis of Tien and later Vegeta's character arcs. The fact that these people turn martial arts into war as a way to either fulfill their evil goals or just for shits & giggles is evil.

No matter what obtuse ass rules of combat you try to apply or what "shades of grey" you attempt to project onto a black & white children's cartoon with your galaxy brain, killing people to further your own goals is not okay. I cannot believe that this actually needs to be explained to a grown ass man.
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 am

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 am

Like I've said before, they are all martial artists. That is the context and those are the circumstances that the entire series operates under.
Even if we gave you that one (and I won’t because it’s stupid nonsense) that doesn’t excuse all the innocent people he killed while there.

Being a martial artist isn’t some magic “get out of being good or evil” free card.
Yamcha was a warrior in opposition to Gero, not just a friend of Goku's. Trying to kill Yamcha was neither personal nor was it an evil act. It was combat.
It. Doesn’t. Matter. It’s still an evil act. Seriously
Who cares if Gero was a criminal? That certainly doesn't make someone evil, nor does it make your subsequent actions evil.
Being a criminal doesn’t make someone evil, yes. People who sell or possess illegal narcotics or commit petty theft are not evil (at least for those acts alone) But you know what does make someone evil? Making weapons for a paramilitary that wanted world domination and had no problem slaughtering innocent people to get what they want or just for funsies. Which part of “Gero made mechanical warriors to kill Goku because he STOPPED the Red Ribbon Army for taking over the world” are you having trouble understanding ?

Seriously nobody can be this ignorant and obtuse.
As for Freeza and Kuririn, actually, that's right. It was war, and Kuririn was the enemy. That particular act wasn't evil, even though we know that Freeza himself is.
By your own nutty logic Freeza isn’t evil, he’s just a martial artist and a professional business man running an empire.

And I never said that anyone should be let off the hook for their actions, just that it wasn't evil.
Murdering someone in cold blood like Freeza did to Kuririn or Gero did to all the bystanders on the island and tried to do to Yamucha is evil though.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:35 am

The villains are evil, I understand. The villains goals and plans are also evil. However, that does not mean that every single action they take is evil. It varies. For example, in my view, Gero impaling Yamcha? Not evil. Gero killing an old man for shits and giggles? Evil. Freeza kills Kuririn? Not evil. Freeza slaughtering innocent Namekians? Evil. So in other words, you can't just assume every questionable action someone takes is an evil one just because they themselves are evil.

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:02 am ...killing people to further your own goals is not okay.
"Not okay" does not equal "evil". If you're saying that this is an inherently evil act, then I don't think I can agree with that.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by ABED » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:25 am

Even if this is "war", Freeza is the aggressor. He's the one that started this issue so what he does is wrong. He's not hurting people in self defense.
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:44 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 2:13 am
MyVisionity wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 am

Like I've said before, they are all martial artists. That is the context and those are the circumstances that the entire series operates under.
Even if we gave you that one (and I won’t because it’s stupid nonsense) that doesn’t excuse all the innocent people he killed while there.

Being a martial artist isn’t some magic “get out of being good or evil” free card.
100%, I have no idea where this logic comes from that they're all martial artists, ergo normal human morality, emotions and basic universal laws of conduct are suddenly alien concepts. It's like newsflash, martial artists aren't fucking inscrutable, emotionless robots who don't give a shit about nuffin'. It's a fundamental misunderstanding of the text to assume otherwise. If someone looks at the scene of Freeza brutally exploding Kuririn's insides and seriously react with "Yeah, that was totally justified, he was an enemy and it's war, why would Goku go Super Saiyan over an acceptable KIA? Doesn't he know the Geneva Convention?", I'm convinced they're either a troll or are beyond help.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:19 am

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:02 pm But my larger point, however, is that generally speaking, crushing heads and impaling chests are not evil acts. Not in and of themselves.
Either you're a really convincing troll, or these posts are genuinely worrying.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:28 am

MyVisionity wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:51 am
jjgp1112 wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:44 pm It's not evil of Gero to kill Yamcha because of some nonsensical "war" doctrine? Where they do that at?

In what world is trying to kill somebody for being associated with a guy who put a stop to your CRIMINAL activities not evil?
Like I've said before, they are all martial artists. That is the context and those are the circumstances that the entire series operates under. Yamcha was a warrior in opposition to Gero, not just a friend of Goku's. Trying to kill Yamcha was neither personal nor was it an evil act. It was combat.

Who cares if Gero was a criminal? That certainly doesn't make someone evil, nor does it make your subsequent actions evil.

As for Freeza and Kuririn, actually, that's right. It was war, and Kuririn was the enemy. That particular act wasn't evil, even though we know that Freeza himself is. And I never said that anyone should be let off the hook for their actions, just that it wasn't evil.
Who told you DOCTOR GERO was a martial artist? being an android does not make anyone a martial artist.

Gero was a SCIENTIST, he was NOT a MARTIAL ARTIST.

Seriously, it does not seem like you have ever paid attention to the story. Gero "had to take out" Yamcha??? what?? he took him out because he wanted to. He left his lab with that in mind, he wasn't forced to take Yamcha out, it wasn't Yamcha's fault either, he didn't ask for it. If you're not a sociopath, then you have never watched or read Dragon Ball.

And what's with being a martial artist being your excuse for everything?? I do not want to live in your neighborhood if you happen to be a martial artist, that's for sure.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 am

Koitsukai wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:28 am

Who told you DOCTOR GERO was a martial artist? being an android does not make anyone a martial artist.

Gero was a SCIENTIST, he was NOT a MARTIAL ARTIST.
They’re not mutually exclusive. The Cyborgs are still martial artist.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:42 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:23 am
Koitsukai wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 7:28 am

Who told you DOCTOR GERO was a martial artist? being an android does not make anyone a martial artist.

Gero was a SCIENTIST, he was NOT a MARTIAL ARTIST.
They’re not mutually exclusive. The Cyborgs are still martial artist.
What martial arts do they practice? fighting or having fire power doesn't necessarily mean you are martial artist. Vegeta isn't one, or at least wasn't one. Freeza isn't one either. The androids are just super strong artificial humans.

Definitely not in the sense spoken here with principles and a motto, and in DB, where there's a clear difference between people that attend the Kame school and Buu or Nappa.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:44 am

I would have to agree that calling Gero a martial artist is a stretch. Being strong through purely artificial means does not make you a martial artist.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:24 am

Not really. They’re still using martial arts to fight. They can still manipulate ki like the Z warriors can. Those energy blast aren’t secret cannon blasters hidden in their hands and they’re not levitating in the air because of rocket boots (contrast Hachan in Path to Ultimate Power who needs his ass rocket to fly)

Since Gero designed the Artificial Humans to kill Son Goku and most of the footage he utilized came from the 22nd and 23rd Tenkaichi Tournaments it makes sense to design the cyborgs to be able to well fight a martial artist.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:52 am

Where was it stated that in order to manipulate ki you need to be a martial artist?? Dodoria can do that too and he is no martial artist. Does that mean that if you don’t manipulate ki you are not a martial artist??

Knowing how others fight doesn't make you a martial artist either, which I don't even know if it's the case with the androids, they beat Trunks and they had no idea about his abilities. Their edge was their immense power and infinite energy, not how great they could counter these martial artists. 17 didn't have any "insights" on Piccolo when they were dead even either.

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