90sDBZ wrote: ↑Fri Aug 13, 2021 5:48 pm
I disagree with the notion that someone like Gero is a martial artist. The word "artist" implies that someone has spent significant time honing their craft. I doubt Gero trained a day in his life.
The idea that every character who ever engaged in hand-to-hand combat is a martial artist is silly, and potentially meme worthy. It reminds me of the Norman Osborn "I'm something of a scientist myself" meme. Like a random kid getting into a scuffle at school and then saying "I'm something of a martial artist myself".
A lot of dub fans view the show as a superhero/sci-fi series, and only watched Z. Others go to extremes to counter argue this by claiming every single character who ever fought is a martial artist, and the show is 100% only about martial arts.
"Dr. Gero was not a martial artist"
He literally rebuilt his body for the sole purpose of facing off against Son Goku. He fights using heavily theatrical hand-to-hand combat that follows a set pattern of skill that reflects his new body. He may not have been a martial artist before Dragon Ball Z, but as #20, he is indeed a martial artist villain. I mean for god's sake, he practically looks like a demented Dr. Wily-wannabe clown version of a white-haired
xian.
"The idea that every character who ever engaged in hand-to-hand combat is a martial artist is silly"
WHAT SHOW ARE YOU WATCHING
WHAT DO YOU THINK MARTIAL ARTS ARE
WHEN HAVE MAJOR CHARACTERS IN THE SERIES NOT USED MARTIAL ARTS? REALLY, I WANT TO KNOW.
"A lot of dub fans view the show as a superhero/sci-fi series, and only watched Z. Others go to extremes to counter argue this by claiming every single character who ever fought is a martial artist, and the show is 100% only about martial arts."
Analogy:
"A lot of idiots say water is dry. Others go to extremes to counter argue that water is wet. Neither is right."
What about that statement makes any sense? One is objectively wrong. The other is objectively right. There is no debate about this.
What the dub fans falsely interpret from an eviscerated, heavily censored butchered dub makes no difference to what Dragon Ball actually is— and let me stress again, ACTUALLY FACTUALLY IS= a martial arts fantasy comic/cartoon.
The fact the show devolves into loops of characters punching and kicking— you know, using superhuman martial arts— never even began to change that fact.
So what if it uses trappings of the Terminator? It filters the Terminator
through martial arts fantasy. That's what the series has always been and still is. FUNimation transforming it into the show about Kung Fu Space Jesus and his mighty glowing Justice League isn't relevant.
It's like saying "Lord of the Rings can't possibly be a fantasy story because some of the characters use technology and Saruman wanted to start an industrial revolution, so clearly while it's not science fiction, it's also not fantasy." WHAT.
THIS:
Is also martial arts fantasy!!
Yeah, it might look something like what superhero stories are like, but that's really convergent evolution. When you're dealing with superhumans who can fly and shoot energy blasts from their hands, whether that's from Kryptonian superpowers or hyper-cultivated ki, it's going to look similar. DBZ/GT/Super/Heroes all remain distinctly within the martial arts tradition.
Man... I'm sorry for being so aggressive, but Jesus. I see why Kunzait's become so bitter. This incessant need to keep trying to make Dragon Ball— a gratuitously, almost offensively Chinese fantasy story that the original Japanese version never attempt to skirt around— into something more Western just because the Funi dub made it seem that way and Marvel & DC movies exist and do similar things really is annoying. And what's sad is that Western properties DID influence Dragon Ball. It's not like Toriyama never heard of Western media.
The problem isn't that Toriyama never looked West— it's that it feels like most people on Kanzenshuu never bothered looking East. Everyone's just content with the same pop cultural bubble of superhero movies, shonen anime, and maybe one or two kung fu/wuxia movies here and there and that's it.
Nothing about "Dragon Ball Z isn't all about martial arts" makes even a tenth of an iota of sense when you look at it from both an Eastern AND Western perspective. That's not even an argument. And yeah, not everyone who fights in Dragon Ball is necessarily a martial artist... because there are a fuckton of characters who are, at some point, hostile to the senshi. But if that character's using choreographed-esque fighting moves and not just a bully throwing fists, they're a martial artist. I don't know how to stress this enough. And that's 99/100 characters characters have faced off against. Whether it be Eastern or Western martial arts (yes, things like boxing and wresting are widely considered "martial arts" in a technical sense; heck, real wrestling is considered one of the oldest forms of grappling martial artistry)