"Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by 90sDBZ » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:26 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 12:26 pm Speaking of Batman Beyond, the fact that Bruce makes it to old age but prior to meeting Terry is completely alone (aside from his dog) due to alienating all of his friends, allies, and potential love interests because of his strong dedication to fighting crime feels like a more realistic outcome for him than how Nolan Batman ended (living it up abroad with Catwoman), because it drives home just how much being Batman has cost him personally in spite of all the good he's done.
There are some people who interpret the final DKR scene as Alfred's fantasy and wishful thinking, although personally I lean towards it being the real thing.

I enjoy most versions of Batman (not so much the DCEU stuff). While I won't say it's objectively the best, Batman 89 is my favourite live action Batman movie, because of it's gothic fantasy look, iconic soundtrack, and the performances of both Keaton and Nicholson.

The Nolan trilogy takes a very different approach but also works very well. My only nitpick is some of the speeches feel a bit overdramatic and forced for the sake of spelling things out, while the Burton films used imagery to tell their story and had this cool air of surrealism to them.

Batman TAS is the version I think of first when someone says Batman. It never gets overly goofy but also never takes itself so serious that it becomes absurd (like Batman V Superman). The Batman from this show is probably the most heroic and devoted to the cause overall. It's a small detail, but I always liked how he gave a thumbs up to kids in the early seasons. He was a true hero.

The Schumacher films are silly mindless fun as far as I'm concerned. I'd take them over Batman V Superman any day.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:35 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 2:26 pm I enjoy most versions of Batman (not so much the DCEU stuff). While I won't say it's objectively the best, Batman 89 is my favourite live action Batman movie, because of it's gothic fantasy look, iconic soundtrack, and the performances of both Keaton and Nicholson.

Batman TAS is the version I think of first when someone says Batman. It never gets overly goofy but also never takes itself so serious that it becomes absurd (like Batman V Superman). The Batman from this show is probably the most heroic and devoted to the cause overall. It's a small detail, but I always liked how he gave a thumbs up to kids in the early seasons. He was a true hero.

The Schumacher films are silly mindless fun as far as I'm concerned. I'd take them over Batman V Superman any day.
Couldn't agree with all of this more. I don't hold the Schumacher films in as high regard, but Batman Forever is decent and I'd gladly take both of 'em over BvS as well.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:07 pm

Honestly I enjoyed Batman and Robin more than Batman Forever ( and Batman 89 for that matter)

Like, Jim Carrey is just playing Jim Carrey for the umpteenth time, Tommy Lee Jones just seems lost and confused, Val Kilmer apparently left before filming started and got replaced by a cardboard cutout, Nicole Kidman’s character is so over the top and unprofessional it’s ridiculous (and we’re really suppose to believe No, THIS IS THE ONE) I don’t think the movie knows how old Dick Greyson is suppose to be. (Is he a young teen that watches cartoons and dreams about being with a woman one day? Is he in his late teens near college age? Or is he a full grown ass adult who inexplicably needs to be placed in someone’s care by social services?) and the whole red diary subplot got cut to shreds that it’s inclusion in the final movie is pointless. Still better than Batman v Superman and The Dark Knight Rises though.



Too make this about Dragon Ball again, you know what I’d like to see that will never happen? Batman and Dragon Ball animated cross over. You just know Batman would know ki attacks in the Dragon Ball universe.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:21 pm

Animated crossover where Horikawa Ryou's Vegeta scares the ever-loving fuck out if Batman for eighty minutes simply by never losing his shit-eating grin. Hell yeah!
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Xeno Goku Black » Tue Jul 13, 2021 3:32 pm

Wow that's just horrifying.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Anonymous Friend » Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:51 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 9:12 am
MyVisionity wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 5:54 pm Different medium for one. Live action films have the tradition of killing off the villains at the end of the movies. Television will keep them alive so they can come back.

BTAS was a children's cartoon. I doubt they would ever allow accidental deaths under those circumstances to begin with.
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 9:32 pm It's not hard to just...nkt have Batman intentionally not save people or not kill people. The decision is being made to have him kill while also ignoring the contradiction.
Julie's point is what I'm getting at. It's not that hard to write Batman not killing people/causing people's deaths. Yeah, BTAS was under strict BSAP that wouldn't have allowed it even if they wanted to, but even when they weren't under those conditions (like Mask of the Phantasm, where for example, the BTAS Joker actually gets to kill people for the first time), they still emphasize that Batman doesn't kill and they actually stick with it. That the Nolan films couldn't do this while having the gall to have their Batman state that he doesn't kill is just plain old sloppy writing that makes him look like a hypocrite as a result.
The thing about film makers is that they are not going to sit around going over every line of dialog or every inch of images trying to make sure there's nothing some thinks-they-know-it-all can misconstrue. And you've seen the messing when they do try to fix every angle.

Batman doesn't kill. But I'm pretty sure if he's in a high speed chase and Joker shoots a rocket at the batmobile and he dodges, someone else is having a really bad day.
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MyVisionity » Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:17 pm

I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman". It's a fun and very well-made version of Batman for children's television, at least in its original incarnation. The later years lost their way, and don't get me started on the whole Justice League mess.

Toriyama's Dragon World is a unique blend of the strange and fantastical with the normal and ordinary. One thing that I think is important for a live action Dragon Ball would be to stay true to the setting and world as seen in the original manga and anime. This is something that Nolan's Batman trilogy got right, by sticking to the source material in that regard. It was refreshing after the previous adaptations had ignored it.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:38 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:17 pm I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman". It's a fun and very well-made version of Batman for children's television, at least in its original incarnation. The later years lost their way, and don't get me started on the whole Justice League mess.
I wasn’t a fan of the revamped Batman/Superman Adventures era if that’s what you’re referring to (it had like two good episodes )

I do agree that it’s a bit overrated. I consider it a better
depiction of Batman than Nolan or Burton or Schumacher but people tend to forget that for every “It’s Never Too Late” or “Heart of Ice” there’s a “Prophecy of Doom” or “I’ve Got Batman in my basement” there’s plenty of mediocre and plain forgettable episodes mixed with the classics. And the back 20 where Fox forced Robin to be in every episode was just mehhh.

. This is something that Nolan's Batman trilogy got right, by sticking to the source material in that regard. It was refreshing after the previous adaptations had ignored it.
It’s just a shame the Nolan trilogy only managed to produce one good movie. One mediocre one. And one awful one. So same batting average as the Burtonmacher movies I guess.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Anonymous Friend » Tue Jul 13, 2021 6:10 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:17 pm I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman". It's a fun and very well-made version of Batman for children's television, at least in its original incarnation. The later years lost their way, and don't get me started on the whole Justice League mess.

Toriyama's Dragon World is a unique blend of the strange and fantastical with the normal and ordinary. One thing that I think is important for a live action Dragon Ball would be to stay true to the setting and world as seen in the original manga and anime. This is something that Nolan's Batman trilogy got right, by sticking to the source material in that regard. It was refreshing after the previous adaptations had ignored it.
Tread softly, friend. That's a magma sized hot take you got there. The DCAU is highly regarded just about everywhere a man can go. The only thing challenging it's dominance is probably Young Justice.

As for Dragonball, you have two main camps, those that want to start from the split into Z with the saiyans. And those who want to start much, much sooner than that.When it comes to the world that's inhabited, we really stop getting that after the 23rd tourney. You get some slight reactionary stuff from the saiyan invasion and we don't come back to that until the andriod attack. If we do start much earlier, we very well might get a lot of the background world, but if we start where we most likely will with saiyan stuff. That won't be the case.
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Jul 13, 2021 7:22 pm

Not to be a bitch, but...why should we concern ourselves with something as nebulous as 'common opinion' for something like a film? Your girl has a hard enough time worrying about her own views on art, now I need to hold the hand of a bunch of people I'll never know nor meet because a film is commonly received well?

Anyway, the Nolan films suck and are as a whole boring. Batman Ninja, Gotham Knight and Return of the Joker are the only good Batman films post-1990s. 😎
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:02 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:51 pm The thing about film makers is that they are not going to sit around going over every line of dialog or every inch of images trying to make sure there's nothing some thinks-they-know-it-all can misconstrue. And you've seen the messing when they do try to fix every angle.
When it's the main protagonist's guiding philosophy as a crime fighter, you'd think writers that want their version to align with that would take more care with the writing than the Nolan films did, but I guess that's just me.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:24 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 4:51 pm The thing about film makers is that they are not going to sit around going over every line of dialog or every inch of images trying to make sure there's nothing some thinks-they-know-it-all can misconstrue. And you've seen the messing when they do try to fix every angle.
When it's the main protagonist's guiding philosophy as a crime fighter, you'd think writers that want their version to align with that would take more care with the writing than the Nolan films did, but I guess that's just me.
MyVisionity wrote: Tue Jul 13, 2021 5:17 pm I respect Batman TAS for its overall quality and what it did for television animation, but it's overrated, and definitely not what I think of when I hear "Batman". It's a fun and very well-made version of Batman for children's television, at least in its original incarnation. The later years lost their way, and don't get me started on the whole Justice League mess.
In contrast, I've always found the Nolan films to be overrated (if that wasn't clear already). Their whole thing is that this is a more realistic Batman, but there's nothing realistic about the concept of Batman so that angle is as much of a non-starter for me as a realistic Godzilla. Plus Christin Bale leaves no impression on me as either Bruce Wayne or Batman (except for that exaggerated growl he uses as Batman, Keaton pulled off the whole "altering his voice as Batman" thing way better). I like their version of Two-Face (probably my favorite Batman villain), but it's not hard to be better than the Tommy Lee Jones version; and while he's not my favorite Joker (that would be Mark Hamill, followed by Jack Nicholson), Heath Ledger does give a great performance as the character.
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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:33 am

Majin Buu wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:24 am . Their whole thing is that this is a more realistic Batman, but there's nothing realistic about the concept of Batman so that angle as much of a non-starter for me as a realistic Godzilla.
Thank you. People go on about how realistic Batman is compared to other super heroes because he has no powers and yeaah no it’s still a power fantasy that’s not the least bit realistic.
Plus Christin Bale leaves no impression on me as either Bruce Wayne or Batman.
His cancer throat Batman informed parodies of Batman for years to come. Same thing with every parody doing that Ledger Joker tongue thing or the Bane voice.

And it’s not a good thing.
; and while he's not my favorite Joker, Heath Ledger does give a great performance as the character.
Leto is the only outright awful Joker.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:45 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:33 am Thank you. People go on about how realistic Batman is compared to other super heroes because he has no powers and yeaah no it’s still a power fantasy that’s not the least bit realistic.
A film that explored the realistic consequences of the concept would have more grounds for being called a realistic take than trying to mold the concept itself into realism. Shin Godzilla for instance doesn't try to make Godzilla himself realistic, but it does explore how Godzilla's existence would realistically affect the world we (or the Japanese more accurately) live in.

But that film as a Batman film probably wouldn't be very fun since the concept of Batman is loaded with unfortunate implications.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:38 am

Majin Buu wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:24 am Their whole thing is that this is a more realistic Batman, but there's nothing realistic about the concept of Batman so that angle is as much of a non-starter for me as a realistic Godzilla.
I don't think that's really their thing at all. They just wanted to ground the story and give it some believability. The Nolan films were taking it back to the comic books, after the previous films had deviated from the source material by turning Batman more fantastical. I think the critics and audiences claiming that the Nolan series was supposed to be making the concept of Batman realistic misunderstand. It's about staying true to the source material by making audiences believe in what they are seeing on screen, even if the concept itself is rooted in fantasy.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:49 am

MyVisionity wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:38 am
Majin Buu wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 9:24 am Their whole thing is that this is a more realistic Batman, but there's nothing realistic about the concept of Batman so that angle is as much of a non-starter for me as a realistic Godzilla.
I don't think that's really their thing at all. They just wanted to ground the story and give it some believability. The Nolan films were taking it back to the comic books, after the previous films had deviated from the source material by turning Batman more fantastical
Regardless of fidelity to the source material the 90s Batman movies were no more fantastical than the comics were.

. It's about staying true to the source material by making audiences believe in what they are seeing on screen, even if the concept itself is rooted in fantasy.
Ras isn’t middle eastern but a white dude. Also He’s not actually immortal he just had a list of decoys! The Joker didn’t fall into a vat of chemicals he’s just an Anarchist with a glasglow smile that may be a war veteran with ptsd. Bruce’s parents weren’t shot after seeing Zorro they were shot outside of an Opera that is inexplicably and nonsensically in the bad part of Gotham. Harvey Dent didn't get half of his face burnt off by acid by Sal Maroni but by a fire from an explosion set up by the Joker. Bane is also a white dude instead of Latin America. Talia used Bruce and is not in love with
him or Batman.


It takes a crapton of creative liberties of its own.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MyVisionity » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:17 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:49 am Regardless of fidelity to the source material the 90s Batman movies were no more fantastical than the comics were.
Yes they were. Burton's films added the alternate reality version of Gotham with the weird architecture and 1940s/modern mix. Schumacher made everything and everyone glow neon. The Batcave was way too dark. Batman's armor and gadgets made him feel like a time traveling robot from the future, his vehicles were completely over the top. All of the zombies. I could go on and on.

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:49 am Ras isn’t middle eastern but a white dude. Also He’s not actually immortal he just had a list of decoys! The Joker didn’t fall into a vat of chemicals he’s just an Anarchist with a glasglow smile that may be a war veteran with ptsd. Bruce’s parents weren’t shot after seeing Zorro they were shot outside of an Opera that is inexplicably and nonsensically in the bad part of Gotham. Harvey Dent didn't get half of his face burnt off by acid by Sal Maroni but by a fire from an explosion set up by the Joker. Bane is also a white dude instead of Latin America. Talia used Bruce and is not in love with
him or Batman.
It takes a crapton of creative liberties of its own.
The Joker falling into a vat of chemicals was never especially important to the character. "Zorro" is a Frank Miller addition and most certainly of zero importance to the character. If you leave an opera early you take the back exit and the backs of places like that are often situated in bad parts of towns.

Everything else you mentioned are largely unimportant tweaks. Creative liberty is fine in and of itself. The point is that Nolan stayed faithful to the source material by keeping the story grounded in reality, which allows audiences to believe in and resonate with a fantastical concept. That's the most important thing.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by WittyUsername » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:28 am

When was the last time anyone parodied the “tongue thing” with the Joker? Also, I’ve said this already, but the Christopher Nolan Batman movies are only realistic when compared to the comics. They take place in a world where super powered characters don’t exist, but they still require suspension of disbelief. They’re still intended to be superhero movies, just ones where Batman is the only superhero around. Also, did the comics from around the time that BB was made ever actually state that Ra’s Al Ghul is Middle Eastern? Yes, ‘Ra’s Al Ghul’ is an Arabic name, but that’s not his real name. It’s a title. Besides, having the villain of a superhero movie in 2005 be a Middle Eastern terrorist might not have been very good optics…

Also, count me as someone with a “hot take” on the DCAU. I never could side with the idea that those shows are the “definitive” version of the DC universe. For one, I absolutely despise Harley Quinn. I think she’s an annoying character with a ridiculous backstory and I hate how DC has spent the past decade trying to turn her into a feminist icon. Her backstory is that she was a ditzy “pop psychologist” who only got a PhD because she bribed her college professors with sex. That’s like something out of the 1950s. She’s a completely unnecessary trophy wife for the Joker. I don’t know how you can possibly translate that into an empowering character.

Besides that, I don’t like the idea that Bruce Wayne was involved with Barbara Gordon at some point. That makes him look like a sleaze. I don’t understand why Bruce Timm seems so fond of that idea, but I can only assume it’s a fetish. Oh, and I don’t really like how Wonder Woman is handled in the DCAU. The point of the character is that she’s supposed to be compassionate and levelheaded, but that’s not really the case in the DCAU. If people like that, more power to them, but I just can’t see that as a definitive version of Wonder Woman.

On a lesser note, I’m not a fan of how they swapped out Aquaman for Hawkgirl as a founding member of the Justice League. I realize that their rationale for doing so was that they didn’t want Wonder Woman to be the only female member of the team, but even then, why Hawkgirl? Why not go with Black Canary or Zatanna?

For the record, I’m not saying the DCAU is a bastardization of the source material. I admittedly went through a phase where I was pretty hard on it for the sake of being a contrarian, but it doesn’t fundamentally misunderstand characters like Batman or Superman. My only major problem with it is that it was responsible for the creation of Harley Quinn. It’s certainly no DBE or FUNimation DBZ.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by MasenkoHA » Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:32 am

MyVisionity wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:17 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:49 am Regardless of fidelity to the source material the 90s Batman movies were no more fantastical than the comics were.
Yes they were. Burton's films added the alternate reality version of Gotham with the weird architecture and 1940s/modern mix. Schumacher made everything and everyone glow neon.
Some bizarre aesthetic choices is no more fantastical than any of the pseudo science and mystical magic that goes on in the comics. Like what?
The Batcave was way too dark
It’s a cave. Also funny how those movies remembered he has a Batcave. The Dark Knight and Dark Knight Rises say what?


.
Batman's armor and gadgets made him feel like a time traveling robot from the future, his vehicles were completely over the top.
So aside from the heavy immobilizing armor this was different from the comics how?
All of the zombies.
What zombies? Huh?

Also Solomon Grundy says hi.


I could go on and on.

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 10:49 am Ras isn’t middle eastern but a white dude. Also He’s not actually immortal he just had a list of decoys! The Joker didn’t fall into a vat of chemicals he’s just an Anarchist with a glasglow smile that may be a war veteran with ptsd. Bruce’s parents weren’t shot after seeing Zorro they were shot outside of an Opera that is inexplicably and nonsensically in the bad part of Gotham. Harvey Dent didn't get half of his face burnt off by acid by Sal Maroni but by a fire from an explosion set up by the Joker. Bane is also a white dude instead of Latin America. Talia used Bruce and is not in love with
him or Batman.
It takes a crapton of creative liberties of its own.
The Joker falling into a vat of chemicals was never especially important to the character.
It’s also indisputably been a part of his origin story forever. Also Ledger’s Joker isn’t the least bit comic
book accurate as a character either.
"Zorro" is a Frank Miller addition and most certainly of zero importance to the character.
Other than the fact that Batman is clearly inspired by Zorro you mean? Also interesting how later additions to the comics don’t matter when you feel like it.

. The point is that Nolan stayed faithful to the source material by keeping the story grounded in reality, which allows audiences to believe in and resonate with a fantastical concept. That's the most important thing.
Lmao. The story was never grounded in reality. Pretending that ditching all the fantastical concepts in the comics somehow makes the movies more accurate to the comics is just plain nonsense.

WittyUsername wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 11:28 am When was the last time anyone parodied the “tongue thing” with the Joker?
It’s been a while but for a good few years after The Dark Knight it was everywhere.

I don’t know how you can possibly translate that into an empowering character.
She’s an empowering character NOW because she’s been able to move on from her abuser and be her own person. The Joker is her origin story but he no longer defines her as a person.

Of course this all happened well after the 90s cartoon. But god forbid people take a problematic character and improve on her.

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Re: "Live Action Dragon Ball Z Movie"

Post by JulieYBM » Wed Jul 14, 2021 12:18 pm

The abusive Joker stuff is a big part of what really turns me off from the character (also, he's just boring). It's super real for me and I especially don't care for The Joker when he's written and directed by men, which is pretty much always. I'm glad to see Harley move away from The Joker in stories like the animated series she has going on now, especially since there is a big focus on her and Ivy as a couple. It's so rare to see Sapphic relationships on screen (hi, Kale and Caulifla!) In action titles. Speaking as a woman with multiple dimensions to her gender expression it's really cool getting the sort of fem bimbo Harley and the futch Ivy being themselves and kicking ass on screen. That's the sort of thing I would love to see in a Kale and Caulifla spin-off.


Birds of Prey was such a good film. Very Sapphic-coded. A live action Dragon Ball film would do well to take inspiration from it to give the film an extra kick.
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