What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by ABED » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:07 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:43 pm It's an uninspired slog of a movie that takes only the most obvious, boring methods of following on from Battle Of Gods that fails to do anything interesting with the concepts and ideas at play in that movie, it learns all the wrong lessons from that movie, the characters have nothing to do for the most part and are only there for the sake of recognisable faces being present in the fight scenes (a problem that persisted into Super, though Broly is mercifully free of this issue), Freeza himself doesn't come back for any reason other than "uhh... freeza comes back... and uhh... he fights goku. yeah."

It's fundamentally shit on every level, it was ill-conceived from the start, and it should have been immediately thrown away at the story proposal stage, at which point Toei could have proposed Toriyama try something else, and probably the result then would have been pretty good. Instead, Toei just took his first idea because Toriyama can do no wrong and it's super marketable because it's Freeza.

The movie was a mistake, and it's one that -- if Broly is any indication -- was eventually learned from, even if Super ended up making all the same mistakes outside of its filler episodes.
Did they learn? They had better animation on Broly but the fight is still crap and they brought back a nostalgia act.
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Koitsukai » Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:51 pm

Cold Skin wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 8:02 pm ^ Exactly. They wouldn't even think that someone as outdated as Freeza would be any useful, he's just old news to them at this point. With the evil Boo not being a possibility, if Goku had to bring back an enemy, it would be Cell, and even that would probably not come to his mind in this situation. To think of Freeza without the movie, they would have to learn from some external source that he is a genius that could catch up quickly instead of witnessing it by themselves.

An interesting point is that some of the negative points you guys mention were modified when going from the movie format to the series format (whether it was well done or done is another debate). Could it be that Toei themselves considered those were points that needed to be improved?

- Goku does return to base form before being struck by the laser, with his face going back to a daily, carefree expression, making him more obvious that he has gone back to a very low power level and isn't in "battle mode" at all anymore.

- The kids sense the energy from the fight and get involved even if the adults didn't want that. They don't get to stay though, as they are sent to bring Piccolo's dead body back to the sanctuary as soon as Goku arrives.
I'd also add that the anime fixed Gohan returning back to base for some reason prior to facing Freeza of all people. The anime had him remain as a SS and get attacked from behind.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Desassina » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:12 am

Freeza's return in a movie event is not as good as that of an introductory chapter in DBS, because his character was going to be reused and the only way for us to know it was to stick with the series, but there's only one type of media where his return was given some connection. In hindsight, I appreciate Resurrection of F, because it's a consistently drawn and animated version of the episodes, one where its flow isn't broken by awkward moments such as Vegeta clapping, or by contrived plot devices such as Ginyu's last body switch. One can't complain about pandering to fans with Freeza's return and it being nonsensical without addressing his captain's. And Gotenks? What the hell was that all about? Did Toei studios get insecure about Toriyama's choice of a cast for the movie or did they correct things perceived as flaws? I'm asking, because the author was already on track to being less serious, if one were to judge him from his interviews with regards to Roshi (for example). The stakes had changed and its lack of tension was justified to give both movies a sense of connection that was unlike previous Dragon Ball Z ones. After all, the series played out with this kind of tension (or lack thereof), so the humans' fight without the Gods filled that role.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Vijay » Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:23 am

super michael wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:31 am I want to hear the mistakes that Dragon Ball RoF did.

In my opinion I think having Krillin fight in RoF over C18 who is stronger along with infinity was really dumb, there was no reason for Krillin to go while C18 stays with Marron. It should have been Krillin stays with Marron and C18 fights the invasion.

Majin Buu hibernating was really bad, never in DBZ was it hinted that Majin Buu needs to sleep for months, just a few seconds sleeping was enough to fully energise Buu.

Goten and Trunks forbidden from knowing about the invasion due to them being childish, but somehow no one has a problem with Bulma acting all childish towards Freeza and being arrogant.

Goku in SSB was KO by a ring laser, while in DB Goku was shot and even shot off guard that never KO Goku at all or left him near dead.

I recall Freeza saying he would raise his power level to 1 million, when that sounds like a mistake. In Namek Saga Freeza 2nd form had 1 million over and his final form was 120 million.
Could u be in anyway Sandro from Twitter? Cuz he was the guy who was asking this same dang question to me DM after DM. Sometimes downright silly ones.

I think you are lol 😂

Rof was fine. The Start, entire Z fighters sequence was great & pre-Blue/Gold fight scene & climax were pretty solid. At least had some action choreography

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by super michael » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:35 am

Vijay wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 7:23 am
super michael wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 4:31 am I want to hear the mistakes that Dragon Ball RoF did.

In my opinion I think having Krillin fight in RoF over C18 who is stronger along with infinity was really dumb, there was no reason for Krillin to go while C18 stays with Marron. It should have been Krillin stays with Marron and C18 fights the invasion.

Majin Buu hibernating was really bad, never in DBZ was it hinted that Majin Buu needs to sleep for months, just a few seconds sleeping was enough to fully energise Buu.

Goten and Trunks forbidden from knowing about the invasion due to them being childish, but somehow no one has a problem with Bulma acting all childish towards Freeza and being arrogant.

Goku in SSB was KO by a ring laser, while in DB Goku was shot and even shot off guard that never KO Goku at all or left him near dead.

I recall Freeza saying he would raise his power level to 1 million, when that sounds like a mistake. In Namek Saga Freeza 2nd form had 1 million over and his final form was 120 million.
Could u be in anyway Sandro from Twitter? Cuz he was the guy who was asking this same dang question to me DM after DM. Sometimes downright silly ones.

I think you are lol 😂

Rof was fine. The Start, entire Z fighters sequence was great & pre-Blue/Gold fight scene & climax were pretty solid. At least had some action choreography
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Koitsukai » Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:52 am

One of the things I didn't like was that introduced stuff that was dropped later, like the super strong base, hinting at the SS forms being useless now... But then they came back and the so-called base beyond God was forgotten like it never existed.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Robo4900 » Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:47 am

ABED wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:07 pm Did they learn? They had better animation on Broly but the fight is still crap and they brought back a nostalgia act.
Well, Broly actually let the characters have agency in the story, the cast was smaller and therefore more focussed, Broly himself actually got to be a character in the story (meanwhile Freeza in ResF could easily be replaced with literally any other moustache-twirler; Broly, while different to his original Z movies incarnation, was a unique character in his own right, with his own journey, and his own role in the plot).

They did still bring back an old enemy, but they actually used him right, and used him to tell a story. ResF doesn't really have a story to tell beyond "freeza appears and fights goku". Broly is the story of Broly's life, the way various evil people have attempted to push him in this or that direction for their own ends, and him ultimately being set free from that thanks to Goku, Leemo, and the other protagonists in the story.

Broly is not a perfect movie, not even close, but it's a good movie, and after how utterly dogshit ResF was, it's clear they learned something after 3 years of crapping out episodes of Super.
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by BWri » Thu Jun 10, 2021 10:48 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:42 pm
BWri wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 6:24 pm
LoganForkHands73 wrote: Tue Jun 08, 2021 7:53 am I don't mind the explanation of Freeza's mysterious training getting him to a godly level, it makes you think how terrifying he could be if he had Goku's work ethic.
...
Some later stuff in Super like Freeza's second return retroactively justifies his return in the movie somewhat, but that doesn't directly improve the movie's quality.
See, I think Super would flow much better without RoF and his later return would be more impactful if this movie/arc just didn't exist. His later reintroduction feels like a better re-introduction than RoF. And we'd get to skip the sentient meat pieces section of the story *shudders*.

So, if RoF is skipped and later Goku recommends bringing Freeza back, Whis could give him the whole training crash course that he gave Goku and Vegeta, but Frieza would likely progress much much faster. On top of making Frieza's strength gains make a little more sense, the change also adds an interesting new dynamic for Goku, Vegeta, and Frieza. If on his own he could get as strong as he did in four months, I'm sure Whis could train him to be the strongest on the team in two days.
But why would Goku even think of Freeza when last time he saw him he defeated him four Super Saiyan transformations again? It would be even more contrived than it already was
Same reason he included Roshi, Krillin, and Tien. It's simply another strong guy. It wouldn't be any more contrived than Frieza being resurrected as pieces of meat, thrown in a bin and being regenerated from that. If we can accept that, we can accept that Goku would think to include one of his strongest rivals in a multiversal tournament lol.
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Kaboom » Thu Jun 10, 2021 1:34 pm

Resurrection F's biggest mistake by a wide margin was heralding the arrival of Dragon Ball Super.

But that aside... yeah, I agree with what some others have said about Freeza's ridiculously extensive power growth in a mere four months. The "natural-born prodigy who's never needed to train before" excuse can only be stretched so far. I feel like another 10-15 minutes of thought in the writer's room could have resulted in at least a little bit more rationalization, or a better starting premise than just "he got hella strong super-fast."
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Zephyr » Thu Jun 10, 2021 2:38 pm

I would find RoF ten times more rewatchable if its art direction wasn't so putrid.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by WittyUsername » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:21 pm

Koitsukai wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 8:52 am One of the things I didn't like was that introduced stuff that was dropped later, like the super strong base, hinting at the SS forms being useless now... But then they came back and the so-called base beyond God was forgotten like it never existed.
BoG also implied that Super Saiyan God was just a temporary thing that Goku no longer needed after it wore off, but then it became a regular transformation. I assume Bandai and (possibly) Toei had a say in that. Those transformations are well liked, so they probably didn’t want to just get rid of them.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Kid Buu » Thu Jun 10, 2021 4:51 pm

I only saw it once, but I remember feeling like the tension dropped once it was established Freeza was weaker than Goku.
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by ABED » Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:13 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 9:47 am
ABED wrote: Wed Jun 09, 2021 9:07 pm Did they learn? They had better animation on Broly but the fight is still crap and they brought back a nostalgia act.
Well, Broly actually let the characters have agency in the story, the cast was smaller and therefore more focussed, Broly himself actually got to be a character in the story (meanwhile Freeza in ResF could easily be replaced with literally any other moustache-twirler; Broly, while different to his original Z movies incarnation, was a unique character in his own right, with his own journey, and his own role in the plot).

They did still bring back an old enemy, but they actually used him right, and used him to tell a story. ResF doesn't really have a story to tell beyond "freeza appears and fights goku". Broly is the story of Broly's life, the way various evil people have attempted to push him in this or that direction for their own ends, and him ultimately being set free from that thanks to Goku, Leemo, and the other protagonists in the story.

Broly is not a perfect movie, not even close, but it's a good movie, and after how utterly dogshit ResF was, it's clear they learned something after 3 years of crapping out episodes of Super.
Freeza still has the personality of Freeza. Broly is merely generic. He's not interesting. His role in the story? To be used by others and get stronger because of a temper tantrum. he has agency? He's doing what he's told and being manipulated into something he doesn't want.

They didn't use Broly right. There is no way to use him right past the first one. Everything else was diminishing returns.

I'll take Super over this overrated movie. At least Super has plenty of enjoyable parts.
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:03 am

I mostly like this movie. Goku and Vegeta getting Blue the way they did felt a bit uninspired, and the way they made Frieza stronger could have been handled better.

Aside from that I really enjoy the action, and the movie goes by nice and quickly, while BoG dragged in places.

Seeing Gohan, Piccolo, Krillin, Tien, and Roshi team up against Frieza's men was really cool, and was a nice throwback to the Saiyan saga.

I don't really get the hate for this movie honestly. It's better than quite a few of the older movies.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Dragon Ball Ireland » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:26 am

90sDBZ wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:03 amI don't really get the hate for this movie honestly. It's better than quite a few of the older movies.
Yeah, most of the older movies like Lord Slug, the Cooler movies, 2nd and 3rd Brolys, etc are just that, big villain appears, big fight, end. Main thing the older movies have over the newer ones is the Kikuchi score and the Japanese cast in their prime.

Resurrection F's art is also quite good, although the animation can be a bit stiff at times, so there's good and bad to it.

For the most part it's just a fun, turn your brain off movie, which there's no harm sticking on every now and then.
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by Robo4900 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:04 am

ABED wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:13 pm I'll take Super over this overrated movie. At least Super has plenty of enjoyable parts.
Agree to disagree. :lol:
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by WittyUsername » Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:43 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:03 am I don't really get the hate for this movie honestly. It's better than quite a few of the older movies.
The older movies are at least less than an hour long. RF is over 90 minutes long for a plot that’s just as paper thin as many of the older movies.

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:54 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 4:43 pm
90sDBZ wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:03 am I don't really get the hate for this movie honestly. It's better than quite a few of the older movies.
The older movies are at least less than an hour long. RF is over 90 minutes long for a plot that’s just as paper thin as many of the older movies.
If anything some of the fights in the old movies feel rushed. In Movie 3 we hardly see the rest of the Z Fighters do anything before they're defeated. It was awesome seeing them all ready to fight side by side, but then they go down so fast it feels like such a waste. At least in RF everyone gets a decent showcase against Frieza's men.

In Movie 5 Goku beats Cooler way too fast after going Super Saiyan. After the beating Goku took, I was ready to see him dish out a real beating on Cooler. Instead he lands 2 hits then blasts him into the sun (which is badass in and of itself, but happened too soon).

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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by ABED » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:16 pm

In some cases the old ones feel rushed, but I would not consider movie 3 among them. It's just long enough. ROF and Broly are too long, whereas the theatrical cut of BOG is the right length.
Robo4900 wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:04 am
ABED wrote: Thu Jun 10, 2021 5:13 pm I'll take Super over this overrated movie. At least Super has plenty of enjoyable parts.
Agree to disagree. :lol:
I don't agree to that. (Simpsons reference)
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Re: What do you think Dragon Ball RoF mistakes are?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:00 pm

Yamcha's story in Movie #6 needed a few more lines. I wish that they would have underscored that he purchased the air ship as a show of his ability to sustain a livelihood so that he could then propose to Blooma. The fear of the movies to actually develop the characters and ignore the comic really are their weakest link.
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