Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 76 - DBZ 175, Special 2, 176-177

[Robo4900]

Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 76 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

The plan was to co-write this thread's trivia with KBABZ, but it turns out he's more busy than the thought he'd be, so you're stuck with my inferior solo trivia for a little while longer at least.

Previous thread: Week 75 (DBZ 170-174)
Next thread: Week 77 (DBZ 178-182)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 328 - Cell’s Standing Challenge!! The Opening to the Decisive Battle (DBZ episode 175)
Dub title: The Games Begin
Originally aired 17th of February 1993
Kai equivalent: Episode 86 - A New God! The Dragon Balls are Finally Revived and Episode 87 - Satan’s Legion Runs Wild! The Curtain Rises on the Cell Games
Written by: Hiroshi Toda
Episode director: Kazuhito Kikuchi
Animation supervisor: Masahiro Shimanuki

As the ten days pass by and the day of the Cell Games arrives, Mister Satan appears at the tournament grounds, where Cell waits. In front of the television broadcast staff, he tries to rile up the completely unresponsive Cell, but Vegeta then arrives. Continuing on, the repaired No. 16 arrives, followed by Goku, Gohan, Piccolo, Kuririn, Trunks, as well as Tenshinhan and Yamcha, who met up with the others on the way over. Satan doesn’t know any of them, and stops Goku as he is about to begin fighting, to the amazement of Gohan and the rest.

Anime-only/filler content: Roshi watching Mr. Satan on TV, Tenshinhan and Yamucha bumping into the others on the way to the Cell Games, Chichi going ballistic seeing Gohan on TV, Mr. Satan smashing a rock with his forehead.

TV Special 2 - Defiance in the Face of Despair!! The Remaining Super-Warriors: Gohan and Trunks
Dub title: The History of Trunks
Originally aired 24th of February 1993
Kai equivalent: None.
Written by: Hiroshi Toda
Director: Yoshihiro Ueda
Animation supervisor: Minoru Maeda

The artificial humans have left the future in shambles, killing all of the Z Warriors but two… Gohan and Trunks. As the two battle to save the future, Gohan is killed and Trunks finally obtains the power of the Super Saiyan. However, even that isn’t enough to defeat such evil, so the young boy travels to the past in search of hope.

Anime-only/filler content: The entire prologue showing the various deaths of the Dragon Team, Gohan and Trunks fighting 17 and 18, Trunks going Super Saiyan for the first time (in the manga, he's already able to go Super Saiyan from the beginning of the chapter), the rain, Trunks trying to avenge Gohan's death, and a lot of small extensions/changes to the scenes that were adapted. Realistically speaking, none of this is "filler", but the anime version certainly adapted the manga special chapter quite liberally.

Episode 329 - Wait Just a Minute!! The Great Satan Army Arrives (DBZ episode 176)
Dub title: Losers Fight First
Originally aired 3rd of March 1993
Kai equivalent: Episode 87 - Satan’s Legion Runs Wild! The Curtain Rises on the Cell Games
Written by: Sumio Uetake
Episode director: Hiroki Shibata
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa

Before the eyes of the amazed Goku and co., Satan tries to fight Cell. At this point, Satan’s #1 disciple, Piroshki, and his #2 disciple Karoni land on the arena from a helicopter, and challenge Cell in place of Satan! But Cell easily deals with them, and Satan challenges Cell after splitting 14 tiles. But as Satan desperately attacks, Cell says that he is simply in the way, and sweeps him aside! The television staff is dumbfounded at Satan’s easy defeat…

Anime-only/filler content: Everything involving Mr. Satan's crew, to the point that they were added to many manga scenes (which is why they weren't removed from Kai).

Episode 330 - Goku’s Bout!! The Super-Tense Cell Games (DBZ episode 177)
Dub title: Goku vs. Cell
Originally aired 10th of March 1993
Kai equivalent: Episode 88 - The Decisive Battle! Cell vs Son Goku
Written by: Katsuyuki Sumisawa
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Ichirō Hattori

Moving on from the farce of Satan versus Cell, Goku finally enters the ring. Not admitting his defeat, Satan talks big, but is amazed as Goku and Cell battle and clash at super speed. While fighting in the arena and in the air, Goku and Cell both retain their composure. Unable to see the two since they’re moving too fast, Satan insists that this must be a trick. The fight escalates, and as Cell says that that’s enough for warming up exercises, Goku responds by unleashing his full power!!

Anime-only/filler content: More scenes with Mr. Satan's crew, the non-combat cast watching the fight on TV at home, the fight itself (especially the "warmup bout") being extended by a large amount.

-

Interesting trivia:

• At this point in time in the manga, Cell continues to get pounded by Gohan, the two have a beam struggle, Gohan decides to not finish off Cell, Cell degenerates to his previous form and begins to self-destruct, Goku takes him away and dies, Cell returns, and reveals that he's even stronger now and can teleport.
• Before the special, it had been said that Vegeta died first. In the special, Piccolo is shown as the first.
• In prior flashbacks to Gohan and Trunks fighting the Androids in the future, he had his sword. In the special, he acquires it at some point offscreen after Gohan dies.
• The Funimation dub of this special was treated like their movies (much like the previous special), and thus had various American bands contribute music to the special; some Buckethead, a couple of tracks by Slaughter, and most of Dream Theater's 1999 album Scenes From A Memory were used in the special.
  • Some of the music placements differ between the original Toonami TV airing, the original DVD/VHS release, and the "Remastered" releases; the opening and closing composed by Mark Menza are used exclusively on the "Remastered" releases, and some tracks by Tendril appeared exclusively in the Toonami version.
• While the Japanese version (and the Japanese-scored version of the Funi dub) opens with Cha-La Head Cha-La, it closes with a song called Aoi Kaze no HOPE ("The Blue Wind's Hope").

Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Dragon Ball logo provided by KBABZ.

[MasenkoHA]

I love that the first tv special is about a character from the past trying to change the future and failing but dies knowing his son will avenge their race. The second tv special has a character from the future who ends the special trying to change the past and while he’ll fail to alter his own timeline’s fate he can at least bring peace to another timeline. There’s a beautiful parallel at work. Not sure if intentional or not.

The Funimation dub is…. not good. I’m pretty sure both it and the Bardock special were dubbed between “The Trunks saga” and “Android saga” Mostly because that “World of Dragon Ball Z” special Funimation did and paired of with the original dvd releases of those specials recaps the series up until that point. So it’s about as good as it can be expected for that point in Funimation Studios history.


To it’s credit, the voice acting fairs a bit better than normal for 2000 Funimation. Mostly because Chris Sabat’s god awful unlistenable (again Sabat fans we’re talking about 2000 here) Vegeta and Piccolo aren’t really in it and Nadolny’s Gohan is barely in it. For the principle cast in the dub: Dameon Clarke’s Gohan is okay, Chuck Huber and Merideth McCoy’s 17 and 18 are fine. Eric Vale’s Trunks is alright. Tiffany Vollmer’s Bulma is surprisingly tolerable (helped no doubt by the fact there was no reason for her to sound like a deranged valley girl ala season 3 and the character wasn’t yelling every 5 seconds ala Dragon Ball’s dub) but yeah the dub script is about what you can expect from Chris Neel peppered with a lot of dumb jokes (Hey, did you notice 17 and 18 have the same hair color as a Saiyan and Super Saiyan respectively? Chris Neel sure did!) and MOST of the licensed music is thrown in randomly without rhyme or reason and is poorly mixed in, sounding less like it’s suppose to be there and more like someone was playing their music during a recording session and it got picked up by mistake. The one exception to this is the use of Prelude by Slaughter when Trunks finds Gohan’s corpse in the rain and goes Super Saiyan. One of the only times Funimation’s music choice was more effective than the original Japanese music. On the other hand, Eric Vale’s portrayal of grief and loss pales in comparison to Takeshi Kusao heart wrenching performance in the equivalent scene.


And finally, on the subject of the Japanese cast, since this is Masako Nozawa’s first time voicing an adult Gohan, I just want to reiterate the performance itself is good but Toei really should have cast an adult male actor for Gohan here.

[WittyUsername]

In terms of the performances in the dub, the cast actually didn’t do too bad. In fact, I think this is one of Eric Vale’s best outings as Trunks. Also, to its credit, there is a key scene in the dub that’s spot on. For anyone who’s wondering, I’m talking about the moment when 17 and 18 explain why they kill people. Unfortunately, the thing that ultimately ruins the dub is its complete aversion to silence. Even ignoring the noisy replacement score, there is almost constant dialogue, which hurts the atmosphere.

Speaking of the dub, this is one of the only times where the Andy Baylor theme is used. In terms of the season sets, the only other time it’s used is for the Bardock dub. I’m assuming FUNimation thought the theme better reflected the dark tone of the specials than the Mark Menza one.

[MasenkoHA]

.

Speaking of the dub, this is one of the only times where the Andy Baylor theme is used. In terms of the season sets, the only other time it’s used is for the Bardock dub. I’m assuming FUNimation thought the theme better reflected the dark tone of the specials than the Mark Menza one.

The Andy Baylor theme preceded the Menza theme. The Baylor theme was created for the Bardock and Trunks specials and the Menza theme was made for movie 6 I don’t think they chose the Baylor theme over Menza for the re-release it was just already part of the dub’s music track and the music already synced up with the Head Cha La animation.


Speaking of the Andy Baylor theme, what even is that shit? That is some of the most god awful excuse for music ever. I owe Team Faulconer an apology.

[SuperSaiyaManZ94]

Agreed on the Trunks special's dub, it's not all that great but for FUNi back in 2000 still better than the unlistenable train wreck awfulness that Sleeping Princess in Devil's Castle and Season 3 are. At least the script wasn't butchered quite as badly as the Bardock special though as with the latter i still generally prefer to watch it in Japanese most times. Also definitely like that the special took and built upon what Trunks: The Story already showed, so this a great example of taking pre existing manga material and fleshing it out further.

That theme used for the special's OP on the old DVD's was awful, and here i thought Step Into the Grand Tour was the worst replacement theme but nope this tops it.

[WittyUsername]

.

Speaking of the dub, this is one of the only times where the Andy Baylor theme is used. In terms of the season sets, the only other time it’s used is for the Bardock dub. I’m assuming FUNimation thought the theme better reflected the dark tone of the specials than the Mark Menza one.

The Andy Baylor theme preceded the Menza theme. The Baylor theme was created for the Bardock and Trunks specials and the Menza theme was made for movie 6 I don’t think they chose the Baylor theme over Menza for the re-release it was just already part of the dub’s music track and the music already synced up with the Head Cha La animation.


Speaking of the Andy Baylor theme, what even is that shit? That is some of the most god awful excuse for music ever. I owe Team Faulconer an apology.

I know. I’m saying that it’s interesting how everything else (besides the first Broly movie) used the Menza theme for the season sets, while the specials kept the Baylor theme. Movie 4 also originally used the Baylor theme, but for the season sets, it uses the Menza theme. I guess I’m just trying to rationalize why the season sets for the specials didn’t also switch to the Menza theme.

Speaking of which, there’s a version of the Baylor theme that’s even worse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnaLW1FAzbU

[MasenkoHA]

.

Speaking of the dub, this is one of the only times where the Andy Baylor theme is used. In terms of the season sets, the only other time it’s used is for the Bardock dub. I’m assuming FUNimation thought the theme better reflected the dark tone of the specials than the Mark Menza one.

The Andy Baylor theme preceded the Menza theme. The Baylor theme was created for the Bardock and Trunks specials and the Menza theme was made for movie 6 I don’t think they chose the Baylor theme over Menza for the re-release it was just already part of the dub’s music track and the music already synced up with the Head Cha La animation.


Speaking of the Andy Baylor theme, what even is that shit? That is some of the most god awful excuse for music ever. I owe Team Faulconer an apology.

I know. I’m saying that it’s interesting how everything else (besides the first Broly movie) used the Menza theme for the season sets, while the specials kept the Baylor theme. Movie 4 also originally used the Baylor theme, but for the season sets, it uses the Menza theme. I guess I’m just trying to rationalize why the season sets for the specials didn’t also switch to the Menza theme.

I’m like 90 percent sure the Baylor theme was only ever used for the tv specials. Pretty sure Lord Slug and some of the other movies originally used Faulconer’s Dragon Ball Z theme which was too short to sync up 1:1 with the Japanese version which is why they used Menza’s theme for the re-release.

Even if that’s not the case. I doubt Funimation put any thought into it. Half the remastered movies use Menza’s theme for the English dub with Japanese music option ala the season sets and half of them use the Japanese OP ala the Dragon Boxes

[WittyUsername]

The Andy Baylor theme preceded the Menza theme. The Baylor theme was created for the Bardock and Trunks specials and the Menza theme was made for movie 6 I don’t think they chose the Baylor theme over Menza for the re-release it was just already part of the dub’s music track and the music already synced up with the Head Cha La animation.


Speaking of the Andy Baylor theme, what even is that shit? That is some of the most god awful excuse for music ever. I owe Team Faulconer an apology.

I know. I’m saying that it’s interesting how everything else (besides the first Broly movie) used the Menza theme for the season sets, while the specials kept the Baylor theme. Movie 4 also originally used the Baylor theme, but for the season sets, it uses the Menza theme. I guess I’m just trying to rationalize why the season sets for the specials didn’t also switch to the Menza theme.

I’m like 90 percent sure the Baylor theme was only ever used for the tv specials. Pretty sure Lord Slug and some of the other movies originally used Faulconer’s Dragon Ball Z theme which was too short to sync up 1:1 with the Japanese version which is why they used Menza’s theme for the re-release.

Even if that’s not the case. I doubt Funimation put any thought into it. Half the remastered movies use Menza’s theme for the English dub with Japanese music option ala the season sets and half of them use the Japanese OP ala the Dragon Boxes

I could’ve sworn I remembered hearing the Baylor theme when I watched Lord Slug as a kid, but maybe I remembered wrong.

[Robo4900]

I love that the first tv special is about a character from the past trying to change the future and failing but dies knowing his son will avenge their race. The second tv special has a character from the future who ends the special trying to change the past and while he’ll fail to alter his own timeline’s fate he can at least bring peace to another timeline. There’s a beautiful parallel at work. Not sure if intentional or not.

Probably not intentional, no.
Lovely parallel, though. Thanks for pointing it out.

And finally, on the subject of the Japanese cast, since this is Masako Nozawa’s first time voicing an adult Gohan, I just want to reiterate the performance itself is good but Toei really should have cast an adult male actor for Gohan here.

I appreciate the tradition that Masako Nozawa voices the entire male Son family, but I understand your position here. Particularly as an English-speaker, it's hard to tell apart her Goku, her Gohan, and her Goten, and it's kinda weird to hear adult Gohan sound basically the same as all her other voices. The subtleties of her performance that Japanese-speakers praise just don't come across beyond child Gohan clearly sounding very baby-ish and the grown-up ones being a little lower-pitched than the children.

[ABED]

The overall energy is vastly different between Gohan and Goku.

[MasenkoHA]

The overall energy is vastly different between Gohan and Goku.

The characters or Nozawa’s performance?

It’s not even that Nozawa’s older Goku and older Gohan sound too similar for me. The “kid at heart” logic that works for an adult Goku really doesn’t make much sense for a high school age and adult Gohan.

[ABED]

The overall energy is vastly different between Gohan and Goku.

The characters or Nozawa’s performance?

It’s not even that Nozawa’s older Goku and older Gohan sound too similar for me. The “kid at heart” logic that works for an adult Goku really doesn’t make much sense for a high school age and adult Gohan.

Whoops, I meant the energy of Nozawa's performance is very different between the two characters.

[MyVisionity]

It was never about being a "kid at heart". It's about allowing the actor the opportunity to portray the same character that they always have, regardless of any changes in age.

I don't see why an adult male would fit any better for Adult Gohan in the special.

As for being able to tell the characters apart, that shouldn't really be an issue for most since you have the visual images of the characters right on the screen talking, so you know who it is.