Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:31 am

miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:55 am
super michael wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:02 am
miguelnuva1 wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 8:01 am

Chichi in her defense has had both her sons die because Goku won't take care of things from the start.

Imagine if he would have busted on SS2 the second Superme Kai told him at Buu and they saw Dabra.
Buu getting revived wasn't Goku faults, he didn't make Vegeta get possessed and kill innocent people just to force Goku to fight him. However the cyborgs getting activated is Goku fault along with the Z fighters, for not listening to Bulma idea in using the Dragon Balls to know Dr Gero location.

Gohan had the raw power to defend and beat Raditz, but he didn't know about it thanks to Chi Chi. So in a way Gohan getting kidnapped was Chi Chi fault.

Chi Chi Future son both died thanks to her rules.
Buu getting revived is as much Vegeta's fault as Gokus. They both chose to have fun and be selfish instead of taking care of business.
Goku chose to fight, so Vegeta would stop killing innocent people. The plan was simple Gohan defeats Babidi and Dabura, while Goku defeats Vegeta.

Goku wasn't aware Babidi spell increased Vegeta powers. In fact without Babidi power up, Vegeta would be weaker than Goku.


As for Kid Buu blowing up the earth that is Vegeta fault for destroying the Potara inside Super Buu body.

Vegeta gets majority of the blame.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:31 pm

How is letting your young children participate in end of the world battles being a good parent? Goten and Trucks are sixth and seventh down the line of power levels. And their mothers would rather these boys become productive members of society, then turning in jobless meatheads like their fathers. Also, they don't want their children to die.

Trunks has a bit more leaway with coming from one of the most wealthy families on the planet. Plus his father is Vegeta. Goten doesn't have it so lucky. Goku's family lives mostly off the land, and Ox King. Plus, they don't really need much in regards to their day to day lives. But notice how Chi-chi gets on Goku to try to do some normal honest work. It probably bugs her that her husband doesn't have a job. She has hopes that Goten will grow up like Gohan and become respectable.

In the past, when there was really no other option, the kids would go up against the big bads. Goku suggested them for the fusion because there was no one alive to face Buu but them. But once the capable adults came around, they took over.
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:02 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:31 pm How is letting your young children participate in end of the world battles being a good parent? Goten and Trucks are sixth and seventh down the line of power levels. And their mothers would rather these boys become productive members of society, then turning in jobless meatheads like their fathers. Also, they don't want their children to die.

Trunks has a bit more leaway with coming from one of the most wealthy families on the planet. Plus his father is Vegeta. Goten doesn't have it so lucky. Goku's family lives mostly off the land, and Ox King. Plus, they don't really need much in regards to their day to day lives. But notice how Chi-chi gets on Goku to try to do some normal honest work. It probably bugs her that her husband doesn't have a job. She has hopes that Goten will grow up like Gohan and become respectable.

In the past, when there was really no other option, the kids would go up against the big bads. Goku suggested them for the fusion because there was no one alive to face Buu but them. But once the capable adults came around, they took over.
Letting children fight against evil people doesn't make them good parents, however training with them and teaching them martial arts makes them good parents, since there are discipline behind martial arts.
Why do they need to choose between having a job or fighting? Why can't they do both?
Why can't a character do both study and train?

The Martial Art Tournament normally gives money as a prize, so winning money that way isn't a bad thing.

Technically Goku has a job and that is being a farmer.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:45 pm

super michael wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:02 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:31 pm How is letting your young children participate in end of the world battles being a good parent? Goten and Trucks are sixth and seventh down the line of power levels. And their mothers would rather these boys become productive members of society, then turning in jobless meatheads like their fathers. Also, they don't want their children to die.

Trunks has a bit more leaway with coming from one of the most wealthy families on the planet. Plus his father is Vegeta. Goten doesn't have it so lucky. Goku's family lives mostly off the land, and Ox King. Plus, they don't really need much in regards to their day to day lives. But notice how Chi-chi gets on Goku to try to do some normal honest work. It probably bugs her that her husband doesn't have a job. She has hopes that Goten will grow up like Gohan and become respectable.

In the past, when there was really no other option, the kids would go up against the big bads. Goku suggested them for the fusion because there was no one alive to face Buu but them. But once the capable adults came around, they took over.
Letting children fight against evil people doesn't make them good parents, however training with them and teaching them martial arts makes them good parents, since there are discipline behind martial arts.
Why do they need to choose between having a job or fighting? Why can't they do both?
Why can't a character do both study and train?

The Martial Art Tournament normally gives money as a prize, so winning money that way isn't a bad thing.

Technically Goku has a job and that is being a farmer.
Is there some handbook with this dogma and doctrine?

Does it say that the overwhelmingly large majority of people not teaching thier kids martial arts are terrible parents?
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:09 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:45 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:02 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 4:31 pm How is letting your young children participate in end of the world battles being a good parent? Goten and Trucks are sixth and seventh down the line of power levels. And their mothers would rather these boys become productive members of society, then turning in jobless meatheads like their fathers. Also, they don't want their children to die.

Trunks has a bit more leaway with coming from one of the most wealthy families on the planet. Plus his father is Vegeta. Goten doesn't have it so lucky. Goku's family lives mostly off the land, and Ox King. Plus, they don't really need much in regards to their day to day lives. But notice how Chi-chi gets on Goku to try to do some normal honest work. It probably bugs her that her husband doesn't have a job. She has hopes that Goten will grow up like Gohan and become respectable.

In the past, when there was really no other option, the kids would go up against the big bads. Goku suggested them for the fusion because there was no one alive to face Buu but them. But once the capable adults came around, they took over.
Letting children fight against evil people doesn't make them good parents, however training with them and teaching them martial arts makes them good parents, since there are discipline behind martial arts.
Why do they need to choose between having a job or fighting? Why can't they do both?
Why can't a character do both study and train?

The Martial Art Tournament normally gives money as a prize, so winning money that way isn't a bad thing.

Technically Goku has a job and that is being a farmer.
Is there some handbook with this dogma and doctrine?

Does it say that the overwhelmingly large majority of people not teaching thier kids martial arts are terrible parents?
I never said a parent who don't teach their kids martial arts are bad parents, however if a parent wants to teach martial arts but they are not allowed due to their partner then that makes that partner a bad parent.

If a kid parents stops their kid from doing martial art or train, even though that is what the kid wants to do, then that makes them bad parents.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:09 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:45 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 7:02 pm

Letting children fight against evil people doesn't make them good parents, however training with them and teaching them martial arts makes them good parents, since there are discipline behind martial arts.
Why do they need to choose between having a job or fighting? Why can't they do both?
Why can't a character do both study and train?

The Martial Art Tournament normally gives money as a prize, so winning money that way isn't a bad thing.

Technically Goku has a job and that is being a farmer.
Is there some handbook with this dogma and doctrine?

Does it say that the overwhelmingly large majority of people not teaching thier kids martial arts are terrible parents?
I never said a parent who don't teach their kids martial arts are bad parents, however if a parent wants to teach martial arts but they are not allowed due to their partner then that makes that partner a bad parent.

If a kid parents stops their kid from doing martial art or train, even though that is what the kid wants to do, then that makes them bad parents.
No it doesn't. A good parent can not let their kid run around doing what ever they want. You need some structure as a kid.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:28 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 pm
super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:09 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:45 pm

Is there some handbook with this dogma and doctrine?

Does it say that the overwhelmingly large majority of people not teaching thier kids martial arts are terrible parents?
I never said a parent who don't teach their kids martial arts are bad parents, however if a parent wants to teach martial arts but they are not allowed due to their partner then that makes that partner a bad parent.

If a kid parents stops their kid from doing martial art or train, even though that is what the kid wants to do, then that makes them bad parents.
No it doesn't. A good parent can not let their kid run around doing what ever they want. You need some structure as a kid.
How is training and doing martial arts a bad thing?

I know someone in real life who began learning martial arts at the age of 5, thanks to all of those years learning he got his black belt at the age of 14. In the martial art school he is a sensei and no only that but he has gone to University.
Him learning martial arts at that young age doesn't seem to have any negative impact.

Martial art isn't just about beating someone up.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:33 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:28 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 pm
super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:09 pm

I never said a parent who don't teach their kids martial arts are bad parents, however if a parent wants to teach martial arts but they are not allowed due to their partner then that makes that partner a bad parent.

If a kid parents stops their kid from doing martial art or train, even though that is what the kid wants to do, then that makes them bad parents.
No it doesn't. A good parent can not let their kid run around doing what ever they want. You need some structure as a kid.
How is training and doing martial arts a bad thing?

I know someone in real life who began learning martial arts at the age of 5, thanks to all of those years learning he got his black belt at the age of 14. In the martial art school he is a sensei and no only that but he has gone to University.
Him learning martial arts at that young age doesn't seem to have any negative impact.

Martial art isn't just about beating someone up.
I'm sure your friend went to school and judging by the length it took to get Black Belt he didn't focus 100% of his time and effort into it but that's another point.

Goten at this age would be spending all his time trainning and would be in life or death battles if up to Goku.

Goku and Chichi don't provide good balance which is why I say they're bad partners more so then bad parents.

Chichi is not wrong if she thinks Goten will get hurt following his father, especially around someone like Beerus who can flip on a dime.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:36 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:28 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 pm
super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:09 pm

I never said a parent who don't teach their kids martial arts are bad parents, however if a parent wants to teach martial arts but they are not allowed due to their partner then that makes that partner a bad parent.

If a kid parents stops their kid from doing martial art or train, even though that is what the kid wants to do, then that makes them bad parents.
No it doesn't. A good parent can not let their kid run around doing what ever they want. You need some structure as a kid.
How is training and doing martial arts a bad thing?

I know someone in real life who began learning martial arts at the age of 5, thanks to all of those years learning he got his black belt at the age of 14. In the martial art school he is a sensei and no only that but he has gone to University.
Him learning martial arts at that young age doesn't seem to have any negative impact.

Martial art isn't just about beating someone up.
Are you saying people like John Kreese do not exist?
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:40 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:33 pm
super michael wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:28 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:20 pm

No it doesn't. A good parent can not let their kid run around doing what ever they want. You need some structure as a kid.
How is training and doing martial arts a bad thing?

I know someone in real life who began learning martial arts at the age of 5, thanks to all of those years learning he got his black belt at the age of 14. In the martial art school he is a sensei and no only that but he has gone to University.
Him learning martial arts at that young age doesn't seem to have any negative impact.

Martial art isn't just about beating someone up.
I'm sure your friend went to school and judging by the length it took to get Black Belt he didn't focus 100% of his time and effort into it but that's another point.

Goten at this age would be spending all his time trainning and would be in life or death battles if up to Goku.

Goku and Chichi don't provide good balance which is why I say they're bad partners more so then bad parents.

Chichi is not wrong if she thinks Goten will get hurt following his father, especially around someone like Beerus who can flip on a dime.
Well everything you said here I have to agree with you 100% here. Your point about my friend, how Goku would place Goten into dangerous situation and how Goku and Chi Chi are not good partners they are all good. That is a good point about Beerus.
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 5:36 pm Are you saying people like John Kreese do not exist?
I have no idea who that is.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:42 pm

super michael wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:31 am
miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:55 am
super michael wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:02 am

Buu getting revived wasn't Goku faults, he didn't make Vegeta get possessed and kill innocent people just to force Goku to fight him. However the cyborgs getting activated is Goku fault along with the Z fighters, for not listening to Bulma idea in using the Dragon Balls to know Dr Gero location.

Gohan had the raw power to defend and beat Raditz, but he didn't know about it thanks to Chi Chi. So in a way Gohan getting kidnapped was Chi Chi fault.

Chi Chi Future son both died thanks to her rules.
Buu getting revived is as much Vegeta's fault as Gokus. They both chose to have fun and be selfish instead of taking care of business.
Goku chose to fight, so Vegeta would stop killing innocent people. The plan was simple Gohan defeats Babidi and Dabura, while Goku defeats Vegeta.

Goku wasn't aware Babidi spell increased Vegeta powers. In fact without Babidi power up, Vegeta would be weaker than Goku.


As for Kid Buu blowing up the earth that is Vegeta fault for destroying the Potara inside Super Buu body.

Vegeta gets majority of the blame.
Nope.

I'm going to ignore the fights up to Yakon but Dabra should have never been allowed to lure them in the ship in the first place.

When Gohan is losing to Dabra Goku should have called Gohan back and let Vegeta take over. Vegeta wanted to get the fights over with to fight Goku. Goku also knew Vegeta was his equal that's why he brought out SS2 becasue he thought Vegeta didn't have that.

Secondly Goku should have went SS3 and knocked Majin Vegeta on his ass. Goku put too much pressure on Gohan when he knew Gohan had been slacking. Later he does the same thing to Goten and Trunks when they weren't ready.

Goku could have also tried to destroy Fat Buu instead of just stalling him wanting Goten and Trunks to win. His next big mistake is not telling Piccolo, when I leave back to other world go finish training them in the ROSAT. If Piccolo could make Gohan a warrior in 5 months he should have been able to make Goten and Trunks even greater in a year.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:31 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:42 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:31 am
miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 1:55 am

Buu getting revived is as much Vegeta's fault as Gokus. They both chose to have fun and be selfish instead of taking care of business.
Goku chose to fight, so Vegeta would stop killing innocent people. The plan was simple Gohan defeats Babidi and Dabura, while Goku defeats Vegeta.

Goku wasn't aware Babidi spell increased Vegeta powers. In fact without Babidi power up, Vegeta would be weaker than Goku.


As for Kid Buu blowing up the earth that is Vegeta fault for destroying the Potara inside Super Buu body.

Vegeta gets majority of the blame.
Nope.

I'm going to ignore the fights up to Yakon but Dabra should have never been allowed to lure them in the ship in the first place.

When Gohan is losing to Dabra Goku should have called Gohan back and let Vegeta take over. Vegeta wanted to get the fights over with to fight Goku. Goku also knew Vegeta was his equal that's why he brought out SS2 becasue he thought Vegeta didn't have that.

Secondly Goku should have went SS3 and knocked Majin Vegeta on his ass. Goku put too much pressure on Gohan when he knew Gohan had been slacking. Later he does the same thing to Goten and Trunks when they weren't ready.

Goku could have also tried to destroy Fat Buu instead of just stalling him wanting Goten and Trunks to win. His next big mistake is not telling Piccolo, when I leave back to other world go finish training them in the ROSAT. If Piccolo could make Gohan a warrior in 5 months he should have been able to make Goten and Trunks even greater in a year.
That is not how these saiyans boys work. You can't really ignore the two fights before Dabra. They are very important to how events unfolded. The fact that Vegeta and Goku both had unbeleiveably easy fights led them to think all of Babidi's forces were push overs and that Supreme Kai had over estimated them. Dabura was the closest challenge, and if he fought either Goku or Vegeta, he would have lost quickly.

Goku was not going to burn through all of his time by using SSJ3. Doing that wold have just made Vegeta act out even more. Notice how Vegeta basicaly stops fighting once he sees Goku to distracted to fight him wholeheartedly. Then he sacrifices himself when H e realized they had underestiated their foes

And Goku only used SSJ3 on Buu as a means to drag some more time. And it cost them, as he had even less time on Earth.
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by SlashHaiden » Wed Sep 08, 2021 8:24 pm

No matter whether or not Goku thought that Gohan would beat Cell, it's still messed up that he sent him out there. But I think that Vegeta is a worse father, seeing as he showed no interest in Trunks, and I think that he was even on a different planet when Bulma was pregnant.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by nhienphan2808 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:13 am

super michael wrote: Sun Sep 05, 2021 7:12 am In DBS I wonder why Vegeta gave up on the idea of Trunks ever surpassing Gohan, in DBZ Buu Saga Bulma mentioned that Vegeta wanted Trunks to surpass Gohan
That's before his mess which dragged Gohan into an assumed death. He was grumpy when he realized Gohan didnt get stronger, but when Gohan was "killed" by Buu Gohan was the only one he apologized to. After that he gave up on his children surpassing Goku's because none of them loved fighting and take it seriously as much as he did.

When planning to beat Buu Goku thought the kids were gonna fight but Vegeta said no. It's almost like he and Chichi are of same mind : Saiyans can fight whatever the hell they want but no use forcing those who dont like fighting to fight.

Back on Topic, Majin Vegeta is not a demon possessed Vegeta. He IS Vegeta getting nothing out of a peaceful life for 7 years - in which he still didnt give a shit about his kid. Say what you want about Goku but i take issue with it when everybody seems to believe Vegeta was the better father or is any more for a peaceful Earthling life than Goku. If he doesnt SEEM as excited as Goku, it's that he literally is slower on looking for a chance to fight, not because he's any less battle crazed. Goku came back for 1 days to also meet his sons and friends, Vegeta literally was on cloud nine that he got to beat up people when the tournament came, it's the same for the 28th.
ShadowWolf87 wrote:Freeza beat Goku, beat Vegeta, and destroyed the Earth. Even if no one else knows it, who does? Goku.
Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
Who has to live with that similar to how he wanted to make Freeza live with the fact he'd been beaten by what he considered trash, and have to live with that shame? Goku.
Freeza got the perfect revenge.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:52 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:31 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:42 pm
super michael wrote: Mon Sep 06, 2021 5:31 am

Goku chose to fight, so Vegeta would stop killing innocent people. The plan was simple Gohan defeats Babidi and Dabura, while Goku defeats Vegeta.

Goku wasn't aware Babidi spell increased Vegeta powers. In fact without Babidi power up, Vegeta would be weaker than Goku.


As for Kid Buu blowing up the earth that is Vegeta fault for destroying the Potara inside Super Buu body.

Vegeta gets majority of the blame.
Nope.

I'm going to ignore the fights up to Yakon but Dabra should have never been allowed to lure them in the ship in the first place.

When Gohan is losing to Dabra Goku should have called Gohan back and let Vegeta take over. Vegeta wanted to get the fights over with to fight Goku. Goku also knew Vegeta was his equal that's why he brought out SS2 becasue he thought Vegeta didn't have that.

Secondly Goku should have went SS3 and knocked Majin Vegeta on his ass. Goku put too much pressure on Gohan when he knew Gohan had been slacking. Later he does the same thing to Goten and Trunks when they weren't ready.

Goku could have also tried to destroy Fat Buu instead of just stalling him wanting Goten and Trunks to win. His next big mistake is not telling Piccolo, when I leave back to other world go finish training them in the ROSAT. If Piccolo could make Gohan a warrior in 5 months he should have been able to make Goten and Trunks even greater in a year.
That is not how these saiyans boys work. You can't really ignore the two fights before Dabra. They are very important to how events unfolded. The fact that Vegeta and Goku both had unbeleiveably easy fights led them to think all of Babidi's forces were push overs and that Supreme Kai had over estimated them. Dabura was the closest challenge, and if he fought either Goku or Vegeta, he would have lost quickly.

Goku was not going to burn through all of his time by using SSJ3. Doing that wold have just made Vegeta act out even more. Notice how Vegeta basicaly stops fighting once he sees Goku to distracted to fight him wholeheartedly. Then he sacrifices himself when H e realized they had underestiated their foes

And Goku only used SSJ3 on Buu as a means to drag some more time. And it cost them, as he had even less time on Earth.
I know that's not how the saiyans work, my whole argument is Goku and Vegeta make things worse and put their families in danger.

The two fights are not important, Goku and Vegeta both say Dabra I'd about as strong as Cell and Goku knows Gohan is weaker and has been slacking. He should have either let Vegeta take over or helped Gohan win. It would have pleases Vegeta and prevented Buu from being released.

Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long. Goku would have put Majin Vegeta down quicker without letting Vegeta damage him to get energy for Buu. And no, Vegeta gets pissed Goku hid SS3. Showing it in the fight might have calmed Vegeta down quicker.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Nagyzöld » Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:12 am

Well he ain't wrong. Goku's emotional intelligence appears to decrease gradually over time. And I think us fans put much more thought into the characters than any of the writers ever did, maybe too much. The show started as part fable part caricature mixed with 80's gags, and then they wanted to get into this super serious narrative to indulge now grown-up fans, while still trying to maintain the outdated comic relief. Basically have a cake and eat it too.

You see Goku as this super complex humanoid alien being neurologically structured and rewired and yada, I see only lazy writing.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:42 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:52 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:31 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 8:42 pm

Nope.

I'm going to ignore the fights up to Yakon but Dabra should have never been allowed to lure them in the ship in the first place.

When Gohan is losing to Dabra Goku should have called Gohan back and let Vegeta take over. Vegeta wanted to get the fights over with to fight Goku. Goku also knew Vegeta was his equal that's why he brought out SS2 becasue he thought Vegeta didn't have that.

Secondly Goku should have went SS3 and knocked Majin Vegeta on his ass. Goku put too much pressure on Gohan when he knew Gohan had been slacking. Later he does the same thing to Goten and Trunks when they weren't ready.

Goku could have also tried to destroy Fat Buu instead of just stalling him wanting Goten and Trunks to win. His next big mistake is not telling Piccolo, when I leave back to other world go finish training them in the ROSAT. If Piccolo could make Gohan a warrior in 5 months he should have been able to make Goten and Trunks even greater in a year.
That is not how these saiyans boys work. You can't really ignore the two fights before Dabra. They are very important to how events unfolded. The fact that Vegeta and Goku both had unbeleiveably easy fights led them to think all of Babidi's forces were push overs and that Supreme Kai had over estimated them. Dabura was the closest challenge, and if he fought either Goku or Vegeta, he would have lost quickly.

Goku was not going to burn through all of his time by using SSJ3. Doing that wold have just made Vegeta act out even more. Notice how Vegeta basicaly stops fighting once he sees Goku to distracted to fight him wholeheartedly. Then he sacrifices himself when H e realized they had underestiated their foes

And Goku only used SSJ3 on Buu as a means to drag some more time. And it cost them, as he had even less time on Earth.
I know that's not how the saiyans work, my whole argument is Goku and Vegeta make things worse and put their families in danger.

The two fights are not important, Goku and Vegeta both say Dabra I'd about as strong as Cell and Goku knows Gohan is weaker and has been slacking. He should have either let Vegeta take over or helped Gohan win. It would have pleases Vegeta and prevented Buu from being released.

Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long. Goku would have put Majin Vegeta down quicker without letting Vegeta damage him to get energy for Buu. And no, Vegeta gets pissed Goku hid SS3. Showing it in the fight might have calmed Vegeta down quicker.
The two fights are the main reason their families were put in danger. It is explained in the story that that's why they were so lackadaisical about the entire affair. Dabura being close to Cell's power means that Goku and Vegeta could have easily defeated him. They let Gohan have a go becuase it was his turn and he should have been able to handle him, reasonably.

Also, "Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long"? We know exactly how long.
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:12 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:42 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:52 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Sep 08, 2021 4:31 pm

That is not how these saiyans boys work. You can't really ignore the two fights before Dabra. They are very important to how events unfolded. The fact that Vegeta and Goku both had unbeleiveably easy fights led them to think all of Babidi's forces were push overs and that Supreme Kai had over estimated them. Dabura was the closest challenge, and if he fought either Goku or Vegeta, he would have lost quickly.

Goku was not going to burn through all of his time by using SSJ3. Doing that wold have just made Vegeta act out even more. Notice how Vegeta basicaly stops fighting once he sees Goku to distracted to fight him wholeheartedly. Then he sacrifices himself when H e realized they had underestiated their foes

And Goku only used SSJ3 on Buu as a means to drag some more time. And it cost them, as he had even less time on Earth.
I know that's not how the saiyans work, my whole argument is Goku and Vegeta make things worse and put their families in danger.

The two fights are not important, Goku and Vegeta both say Dabra I'd about as strong as Cell and Goku knows Gohan is weaker and has been slacking. He should have either let Vegeta take over or helped Gohan win. It would have pleases Vegeta and prevented Buu from being released.

Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long. Goku would have put Majin Vegeta down quicker without letting Vegeta damage him to get energy for Buu. And no, Vegeta gets pissed Goku hid SS3. Showing it in the fight might have calmed Vegeta down quicker.
The two fights are the main reason their families were put in danger. It is explained in the story that that's why they were so lackadaisical about the entire affair. Dabura being close to Cell's power means that Goku and Vegeta could have easily defeated him. They let Gohan have a go becuase it was his turn and he should have been able to handle him, reasonably.

Also, "Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long"? We know exactly how long.
It is never stated how long Goku fought Fat Buu, but do you think Majin Vegeta would have lasted as long.

Like I said the two fights before don't make a difference. Goku should have fought with Gohan or let Vegeta take over. Giving Gohan a turn in the condition he was in was playing with fire and everyone got burned.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:06 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:12 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:42 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:52 am

I know that's not how the saiyans work, my whole argument is Goku and Vegeta make things worse and put their families in danger.

The two fights are not important, Goku and Vegeta both say Dabra I'd about as strong as Cell and Goku knows Gohan is weaker and has been slacking. He should have either let Vegeta take over or helped Gohan win. It would have pleases Vegeta and prevented Buu from being released.

Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long. Goku would have put Majin Vegeta down quicker without letting Vegeta damage him to get energy for Buu. And no, Vegeta gets pissed Goku hid SS3. Showing it in the fight might have calmed Vegeta down quicker.
The two fights are the main reason their families were put in danger. It is explained in the story that that's why they were so lackadaisical about the entire affair. Dabura being close to Cell's power means that Goku and Vegeta could have easily defeated him. They let Gohan have a go becuase it was his turn and he should have been able to handle him, reasonably.

Also, "Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long"? We know exactly how long.
It is never stated how long Goku fought Fat Buu, but do you think Majin Vegeta would have lasted as long.

Like I said the two fights before don't make a difference. Goku should have fought with Gohan or let Vegeta take over. Giving Gohan a turn in the condition he was in was playing with fire and everyone got burned.
We literally saw how long the fight happened. And it was probably quicker in the manga.

The first two fighters set a scale of what everyone was expecting. And with Supreme Kai freaking out at every turn.

Heck, I'm of the camp that Gohan could have taken Dabura on his own before he was defeated by Buu. If Trunks could do it why not him.
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:43 pm

Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:06 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:12 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 3:42 pm

The two fights are the main reason their families were put in danger. It is explained in the story that that's why they were so lackadaisical about the entire affair. Dabura being close to Cell's power means that Goku and Vegeta could have easily defeated him. They let Gohan have a go becuase it was his turn and he should have been able to handle him, reasonably.

Also, "Ss3 burnt Goku's time because he was stalling Buu from who knows how long"? We know exactly how long.
It is never stated how long Goku fought Fat Buu, but do you think Majin Vegeta would have lasted as long.

Like I said the two fights before don't make a difference. Goku should have fought with Gohan or let Vegeta take over. Giving Gohan a turn in the condition he was in was playing with fire and everyone got burned.
We literally saw how long the fight happened. And it was probably quicker in the manga.

The first two fighters set a scale of what everyone was expecting. And with Supreme Kai freaking out at every turn.

Heck, I'm of the camp that Gohan could have taken Dabura on his own before he was defeated by Buu. If Trunks could do it why not him.
So you think Goku vs Frieza lasted hours as well than right? There is not time given on how long SS3 Goku fought Buu.

The fighters setting a scale doesn't matter. Goku and Vegeta already know Dabra is about as stronger as Cell. Goku should have gone SS2 and fought with Gohan or let Vegeta handle Dabra.

Trunks could do so becasue he is stronger than Gohan at that point.

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