Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:43 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:06 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:12 pm

It is never stated how long Goku fought Fat Buu, but do you think Majin Vegeta would have lasted as long.

Like I said the two fights before don't make a difference. Goku should have fought with Gohan or let Vegeta take over. Giving Gohan a turn in the condition he was in was playing with fire and everyone got burned.
We literally saw how long the fight happened. And it was probably quicker in the manga.

The first two fighters set a scale of what everyone was expecting. And with Supreme Kai freaking out at every turn.

Heck, I'm of the camp that Gohan could have taken Dabura on his own before he was defeated by Buu. If Trunks could do it why not him.
So you think Goku vs Frieza lasted hours as well than right? There is not time given on how long SS3 Goku fought Buu.

Goku fights with Buu to distract them from K' Trunks.

Are you saying the fight could protentially have taken hours and hours fro Trunks to find the radar?
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:17 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:43 pm
Anonymous Friend wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 5:06 pm

We literally saw how long the fight happened. And it was probably quicker in the manga.

The first two fighters set a scale of what everyone was expecting. And with Supreme Kai freaking out at every turn.

Heck, I'm of the camp that Gohan could have taken Dabura on his own before he was defeated by Buu. If Trunks could do it why not him.
So you think Goku vs Frieza lasted hours as well than right? There is not time given on how long SS3 Goku fought Buu.

Goku fights with Buu to distract them from K' Trunks.

Are you saying the fight could protentially have taken hours and hours fro Trunks to find the radar?
No you said we saw how long the fight took and I countered we saw how long Goku and Frieza fought as well. There is never stated a time on Goku vs Buu it could have taken 10 minutes it could have been 2 hours.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Anonymous Friend » Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:27 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:17 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 9:43 pm

So you think Goku vs Frieza lasted hours as well than right? There is not time given on how long SS3 Goku fought Buu.

Goku fights with Buu to distract them from K' Trunks.

Are you saying the fight could protentially have taken hours and hours fro Trunks to find the radar?
No you said we saw how long the fight took and I countered we saw how long Goku and Frieza fought as well. There is never stated a time on Goku vs Buu it could have taken 10 minutes it could have been 2 hours.
So ...

What a prominent story thread about Goku needing to not use up his time in the living world, Goku would ue up more than a couple minutes fighting Buu in that form?

Also, the Freeza v Goku Namekian " 5 minutes", was only about five minutes, or about as long at it would take the average reader to read through it.
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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Thu Sep 16, 2021 1:17 am

Anonymous Friend wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 2:27 pm
miguelnuva1 wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 5:17 am
Anonymous Friend wrote: Tue Sep 14, 2021 5:00 pm
Goku fights with Buu to distract them from K' Trunks.

Are you saying the fight could protentially have taken hours and hours fro Trunks to find the radar?
No you said we saw how long the fight took and I countered we saw how long Goku and Frieza fought as well. There is never stated a time on Goku vs Buu it could have taken 10 minutes it could have been 2 hours.
So ...

What a prominent story thread about Goku needing to not use up his time in the living world, Goku would ue up more than a couple minutes fighting Buu in that form?

Also, the Freeza v Goku Namekian " 5 minutes", was only about five minutes, or about as long at it would take the average reader to read through it.
My point is we are never told how long Goku fought Buu. All we are told is SS3 drain his time on Earth. All we know is Goku had used a couple hours before the fight and Buu drained the less. We can guesstimate hiw long the Buu fight was but it is never given a length.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:27 pm

Majin Buu wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:32 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:51 pm It’s not being ignored you just insist on this nonsense argument that Gohan doesn’t want to be a fighter makes him a bad son because reasons.
It's almost like fans that make ridiculous arguments like this don't actually get Gohan as a character. Ironically, these fans are like the types of bad parents that want their kid to be something great (sports star, famous politician, etc.) and then get all bent out of shape when the kid decides to go in a different direction for themselves.
Never once said that.

It was never about Gohan not wanting to be a fighter. I just found it insane that Goku is always saving the universe with Vegeta, but all the negative family dynamics lie at Goku's feet, alone. It's a crazy fictional franchise where everyone's crazy. That's all I was pointing out. None of the characters are perfect. They all "suck" in their own interesting ways.

Idk why this has to get personal.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:13 pm

ClutchBangstrip wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:27 pm
Majin Buu wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:32 am
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Aug 26, 2021 3:51 pm It’s not being ignored you just insist on this nonsense argument that Gohan doesn’t want to be a fighter makes him a bad son because reasons.
It's almost like fans that make ridiculous arguments like this don't actually get Gohan as a character. Ironically, these fans are like the types of bad parents that want their kid to be something great (sports star, famous politician, etc.) and then get all bent out of shape when the kid decides to go in a different direction for themselves.
Never once said that.

It was never about Gohan not wanting to be a fighter. I just found it insane that Goku is always saving the universe with Vegeta, but all the negative family dynamics lie at Goku's feet, alone. It's a crazy fictional franchise where everyone's crazy. That's all I was pointing out. None of the characters are perfect. They all "suck" in their own interesting ways.

Idk why this has to get personal.
It took you half a month to decide whether you should retort or not?
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Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by ClutchBangstrip » Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:17 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 4:13 pm
ClutchBangstrip wrote: Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:27 pm
Majin Buu wrote: Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:32 am

It's almost like fans that make ridiculous arguments like this don't actually get Gohan as a character. Ironically, these fans are like the types of bad parents that want their kid to be something great (sports star, famous politician, etc.) and then get all bent out of shape when the kid decides to go in a different direction for themselves.
Never once said that.

It was never about Gohan not wanting to be a fighter. I just found it insane that Goku is always saving the universe with Vegeta, but all the negative family dynamics lie at Goku's feet, alone. It's a crazy fictional franchise where everyone's crazy. That's all I was pointing out. None of the characters are perfect. They all "suck" in their own interesting ways.

Idk why this has to get personal.
It took you half a month to decide whether you should retort or not?
Literally haven't been here for that long. Notifications are a helluva thing. 😂

Super Chapter 76 sounds real interesting, thought I'd hop on to see what was going on.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Jord » Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:24 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Fri Aug 20, 2021 10:00 am I'm pretty sure the entire purpose of showing Vegeta punch Future Trunks was to make him look pretty shitty as a father, so I'm not quite sure how this tired warrior rhetoric works.
You are so right. I love how Vegeta fans always try to rationalize his behavior. Having a shitty upbringing is one thing and yes, that can be a cause for being a shitty parent, but it doesn't excuse him. Vegeta doing something good always seem to come just before or after he does something shitty.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by Saiya6Cit » Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:24 am

I read the original article today, thanks.

Just Friday I was telling a friend that Spain has good encyclopedias cause they used to get material directly from Japan, in japanese and then translated it to Spanish. We would get such printed works in México, distribuited at local magazine kiosks. It was only a supposition based on logic, but I am glad to find out thanks to Derek Padula, that it is infact true.

In Mexico Goku was not seen a bad father but rather as a regular father as in my developing economy country it is common that a father leaves the home for years, to work in the United States and send the dollars to the mother to raise children. The same way Goku did with Goten (he was not even there when Chichi was pregnant) it happens a lot in many regions of Mexico. One could say that it felt familiar for many kids and up to this date I believe that is why Gohan is a favorite character for many mexicans (also the fact that our moms are as severe as Chichi Contributes).

Having said that and after knowing the example of first world countries' fathers, I personally think Goku was indeed a bad father, but he was never interested in even marrying in the first place, so we can't blame Goku for that.

I have always thought of him as a sort of Forrest Gump, he got Chichi pregnant whilst not knowing exactly what he was doing. Did someone ask Goku what he wanted to do in life? No, Chichi demanded him to marry her over a child's promise...
He can speak to them through their minds whenever he wants to, but he never does.
Yeah, that always bothered me. Gohan was going trough teenagehood, and changes in his body that proably made him very confused, but then again, someone as Goku who went through that on his own as well might not have been helpful at all, even Vegeta had Nappa to ask why was he getting so much hair, etc for god's sake....

I think Goku loves Gohan, but as we know love does not always make up for a good father. Even Vegeta became a better father...

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:51 pm

I found this video by luck in youtube about Dragon Ball Z Kakarot and it looks good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjtzJiPV69w
Basically both Goten and Trunks wants to get stronger and their parents actually support them. Chi Chi doesn't stop Goten from training.

That is what we fans want to see, being allowed to train with someone strong.

We don't want to see Chi Chi use Kaioken and say no, just because Gohan suggested Goten to spar with Goku.
We don't want to see Vegeta say no just because Goten and Trunks wants to train with him.
We don't want Chi Chi stopping Goten from going to Whis planet, just because Goten wants to get super strong.

If they want to get strong and they want to train, then they should be allowed to get powerful.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:53 pm

super michael wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 12:51 pm I found this video by luck in youtube about Dragon Ball Z Kakarot and it looks good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vjtzJiPV69w
Basically both Goten and Trunks wants to get stronger and their parents actually support them. Chi Chi doesn't stop Goten from training.

That is what we fans want to see, being allowed to train with someone strong.

We don't want to see Chi Chi use Kaioken and say no, just because Gohan suggested Goten to spar with Goku.
We don't want to see Vegeta say no just because Goten and Trunks wants to train with him.
We don't want Chi Chi stopping Goten from going to Whis planet, just because Goten wants to get super strong.

If they want to get strong and they want to train, then they should be allowed to get powerful.
Speak for yourself. I'd rather Goku and Vegeta stop playing games with their opponents and try to win for once instead of having fun and even if they want to Goten and Trunks aren't ready for Whis yet. They should try Roshi, Korin, Kuririn or Piccolo first, even Gohan

Goten and Trunks should only have to fight for fun or if their dads are defeated, and

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by damn » Sat Oct 23, 2021 1:12 am

It's ridiculous how the author interprets the word "disastrous" in such a one-dimensional manner.
Yes, Goku is a disastrous father as in an incompetent one. Just because he means well(and even succeeds at times) doesn't make him not disastrous and vice-versa just because he's disastrous doesn't mean he doesn't mean well.

Goku is just a dumb hick, only thing he understands is fighting and he doesn't really understand Gohan's studies but that's not necessarily a bad thing in itself(though Toriyama treads the line with that one when he assumes Gohan would like a fair fight with Cell and honestly I think this is because he doubled down on his stupid "poison" crap because of Toei showing Goku as too "heroic" in fillers and at this point his Alzheimer's is so bad that he tends to think Goku was always completely selfish when that is not true since he always cared for his friends and a lot of his adventures in the first place revolved around him searching for his Grandpa's Memento the 4th Star Dragon Ball).

But did you even expect somebody as stupid as Goku to be a competent father in the first place?
This is the guy who thought Marriage was Food ffs.
I don't understand why Americans in particular bellyache about this, sounds to me like most of the western fanbase has daddy issues and they project those issues onto Goku and take this shit way too seriously when Dragon Ball is a comedy. You can say it's an action series and that it has a serious story at times and whatnot but at its roots Dragon Ball is a comedy gag manga. The series has always been comedic/comical in style as has Toriyama's style in general.

To make a comparison to a western character I'd compare Goku to Homer Simpson. Homer is a disastrous incompetent father much like Goku but that doesn't mean he doesn't mean well. Of course both Goku and Homer got flanderized over time(with Homer being much moreso).
That is the kind of character Goku is in relation to his role as a father.
He excels at fighting but when it comes to family affairs he's far from the ideal family man(be it as a father or as a husband) or even decent and that's okay because he's not meant to be an ideal.

The assumptions the author makes such as Goku's teaching style being comparable to a Zen Buddhist's are equally stupid as well and looking too much into things that aren't there. The truth is that he tried to teach Gohan but didn't know what he was doing at all.
His crutch is that he hopes Gohan gets angry enough to trigger an enormous power dwelling within him. Just because his hopes accidentally succeed doesn't mean you can give credit to Goku for this like this author thinks since if anything it makes Goku even more incompetent since he forgot the reason he transformed into SSJ was because of his anger of Kuririn getting killed by Freeza so him thinking that Gohan will get mad enough to transform or get stronger just because he's losing makes him incredibly incompetent considering that not even he himself ever got stronger because of his anger due to losing rather he always got stronger though a lot of hard work/training and at times because he was angry about his friends getting hurt but never due to being mad because he's getting his ass kicked.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 3:44 pm

Godzilla is a better father than Goku confirmed.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by TheGreatness25 » Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:40 pm

Didn't they pretty much acknowledge this in Dragon Ball Super when Goku was trying to convince Vegeta to go train with Beerus and Whis while Bulma was about to have Bra ("Bura" apparently)?

So, it seems that the series is very aware of Goku's shortcomings as a parent.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:28 pm

TheGreatness25 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:40 pm Didn't they pretty much acknowledge this in Dragon Ball Super when Goku was trying to convince Vegeta to go train with Beerus and Whis while Bulma was about to have Bra ("Bura" apparently)?

So, it seems that the series is very aware of Goku's shortcomings as a parent.
Goku knew the Universe was going to get erased, so training and getting warriors is more important than seeing a baby born.
Vegeta wasn't aware of the universe being at risk of getting erased.

In DBZ we saw that Goku was there for Gohan as a kid and wanted to teach everything he knew about Martial Arts. The one who was being a bad parent was Chi Chi for not letting Goku teach Gohan anything.
It isn't like Goku was saying not to teach Gohan academic studies.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:20 am

super michael wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:28 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:40 pm Didn't they pretty much acknowledge this in Dragon Ball Super when Goku was trying to convince Vegeta to go train with Beerus and Whis while Bulma was about to have Bra ("Bura" apparently)?

So, it seems that the series is very aware of Goku's shortcomings as a parent.
Goku knew the Universe was going to get erased, so training and getting warriors is more important than seeing a baby born.
Vegeta wasn't aware of the universe being at risk of getting erased.

In DBZ we saw that Goku was there for Gohan as a kid and wanted to teach everything he knew about Martial Arts. The one who was being a bad parent was Chi Chi for not letting Goku teach Gohan anything.
It isn't like Goku was saying not to teach Gohan academic studies.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was before the Tournament of Power. This was like right after the Beerus fight where Vegeta was training there for some time. There was peace on Earth and none of this universe erasing stuff was coming into play.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by super michael » Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:09 am

TheGreatness25 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:20 am
super michael wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:28 pm
TheGreatness25 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 4:40 pm Didn't they pretty much acknowledge this in Dragon Ball Super when Goku was trying to convince Vegeta to go train with Beerus and Whis while Bulma was about to have Bra ("Bura" apparently)?

So, it seems that the series is very aware of Goku's shortcomings as a parent.
Goku knew the Universe was going to get erased, so training and getting warriors is more important than seeing a baby born.
Vegeta wasn't aware of the universe being at risk of getting erased.

In DBZ we saw that Goku was there for Gohan as a kid and wanted to teach everything he knew about Martial Arts. The one who was being a bad parent was Chi Chi for not letting Goku teach Gohan anything.
It isn't like Goku was saying not to teach Gohan academic studies.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was before the Tournament of Power. This was like right after the Beerus fight where Vegeta was training there for some time. There was peace on Earth and none of this universe erasing stuff was coming into play.
I doubled checked the episode and your right. Goku wanted Vegeta to train with him before the ToP was even announced, it was before even going to Zeno to get the tournament started.

The episode is DBS Episode 77.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by TheGreatness25 » Tue Oct 26, 2021 12:46 pm

super michael wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:09 am
TheGreatness25 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 1:20 am
super michael wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 12:28 pm

Goku knew the Universe was going to get erased, so training and getting warriors is more important than seeing a baby born.
Vegeta wasn't aware of the universe being at risk of getting erased.

In DBZ we saw that Goku was there for Gohan as a kid and wanted to teach everything he knew about Martial Arts. The one who was being a bad parent was Chi Chi for not letting Goku teach Gohan anything.
It isn't like Goku was saying not to teach Gohan academic studies.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this was before the Tournament of Power. This was like right after the Beerus fight where Vegeta was training there for some time. There was peace on Earth and none of this universe erasing stuff was coming into play.
I doubled checked the episode and your right. Goku wanted Vegeta to train with him before the ToP was even announced, it was before even going to Zeno to get the tournament started.

The episode is DBS Episode 77.
Honestly, I'm a bit confused too. I decided to rewatcj Super, but I'm reading the manga at the same time. So on the anime, I'm up to the post Beerus fight, but in the manga, I'm just past the Goku Black arc. I'm "watching" the anime when I have light work at work (have it on my phone while mostly just listening to it), so that's why I'm not synced up.

Anyway, that's why I thought that the thing with Goku not understanding why Vegeta needed to stay home was so early on (after the Beerus fight). I was actually up to that part in the manga, not the anime.

But the point still remains: based on Goku's behavior amd everyone else's reaction to it, I would say that the series is aware that Goku is a bad family man (in that regard). And while I was mistaken on the timeline, I wasn't mistaken that this went down before the Tournament of Power was announced.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by miguelnuva1 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:26 pm

In both Goku and Vegeta's defense there was nothing wrong with either in that scene. Vegeta is a great husband for wanting to stay close to home but Goku also had merit in that Bulma likely doesn't need Vegeta 24/7 while she was pregnant as I don't remember them saying it was a high risk.

All Trunks would have to do is raise his power when Bulma's water broke since Vegeta knows it will be soon and then have Goku IT him home.

Saying all that to say I'd pick Vegeta's side and agree with him, just saying Goku isn't as bad as that scene could paint him.

Also before Super its heavily implied he was home with Goten everyday for 10 years and we know he raised Gohan other than his Yardrat adventure.

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Re: Goku is a disaster as a father, according to Akira Toriyama

Post by TheGreatness25 » Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:42 pm

miguelnuva1 wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 3:26 pm In both Goku and Vegeta's defense there was nothing wrong with either in that scene. Vegeta is a great husband for wanting to stay close to home but Goku also had merit in that Bulma likely doesn't need Vegeta 24/7 while she was pregnant as I don't remember them saying it was a high risk.

All Trunks would have to do is raise his power when Bulma's water broke since Vegeta knows it will be soon and then have Goku IT him home.

Saying all that to say I'd pick Vegeta's side and agree with him, just saying Goku isn't as bad as that scene could paint him.

Also before Super its heavily implied he was home with Goten everyday for 10 years and we know he raised Gohan other than his Yardrat adventure.
Yeah, but was Vegeta being a "good" husband/father? Wasn't it just because he knew that Bulma wouldn't let him down? It's like the guy who takes the garbage out so his wife wouldn't nag him. Does that really count?

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