At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by precita » Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:54 pm

Dragon Ball is loved because it's the ultimate story of good vs. evil. Muscle bound heroes go, "pow pow" and villains go, "aaaaarggghh" and that's why people like it.

It's the ultimate power fantasy. Look at how many people self-insert themselves into Goku, Vegeta, Gohan or Piccolo.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm

Talking about politics when discussing works of fiction is nothing new. Despite what certain individuals like to claim, fiction has always been political. Movies like Star Wars (before Disney ever got their hands on it), Alien and RoboCop have political messages that could easily be seen as “preachy” or “woke.”

The truth is that there is no such thing as an apolitical human being, unless we’re talking about infants and toddlers. Everyone has opinions. If someone says that they’re “apolitical” or “don’t give a shit about politics”, it usually means that they have some potentially controversial views they aren’t willing to share.

With that said, I do think that Julie can go a little overboard sometimes.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:11 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pmWith that said, I do think that Julie can go a little overboard sometimes.
Oh, the weird, negative reactions to even mentioning a political/experienced-based reading of a work definitely exhaust me and drive me up the wall and I definitely let that show when I should probably log off. Which is to say, I think it's silly to expect me to be the one to change where my media analysis interests lie when people can also just not engage with my posts. God knows the battle power/continuity folks drive me up the wall and I try to avoid them (unless I'm feeling like self-harming that day, I guess).
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by precita » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:12 pm

The irony of it all is the original Dragon Ball had Toriyama expose Japanese kids to different cultures. Nam was Indian, a lot of the townspeople in the Pilaf arc seemed to be based on Arabian culture (including the outfit Bulma wore in that arc), the Red Ribbon arc had Suno and had village based on Russia, there were various black characters like General Black and the one-off characters, and so on and so forth. Tenshinhan seem to be based on Tibetan monks, Launch's character was almost an allegory for multiple personality disorder, etc.

And remember the manga was originally only written for Japanese kids who may have never been exposed to other cultures in the 80's.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by Yuji » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm The truth is that there is no such thing as an apolitical human being, unless we’re talking about infants and toddlers. Everyone has opinions. If someone says that they’re “apolitical” or “don’t give a shit about politics”, it usually means that they have some potentially controversial views they aren’t willing to share.
Or, crazy thought, they're just generally ignorant and/or disinterested people with a very surface level understanding of cultural issues and a reluctance to engage in them precisely because of that; or, on the other hand, people who have engaged with politics and are sufficiently informed about most issues but have deemed those subjects irrelevant or unproductive for whatever reason and chose to focus their patience and efforts on their own immediate needs instead?

God, people, not everything is a crazy conspiracy by the alt-right. Get your heads out of your asses and go outside for a bit.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:48 pm

Yuji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm The truth is that there is no such thing as an apolitical human being, unless we’re talking about infants and toddlers. Everyone has opinions. If someone says that they’re “apolitical” or “don’t give a shit about politics”, it usually means that they have some potentially controversial views they aren’t willing to share.
Or, crazy thought, they're just generally ignorant and/or disinterested people with a very surface level understanding of cultural issues and a reluctance to engage in them precisely because of that; or, on the other hand, people who have engaged with politics and are sufficiently informed about most issues but have deemed those subjects irrelevant or unproductive for whatever reason and chose to focus their patience and efforts on their own immediate needs instead?

God, people, not everything is a crazy conspiracy by the alt-right. Get your heads out of your asses and go outside for a bit.
How did I even remotely suggest that there was some kind of alt-right conspiracy at work? All I said was that no one is truly apolitical. I said absolutely nothing about the alt-right.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by Yuji » Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:58 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:48 pm
Yuji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm The truth is that there is no such thing as an apolitical human being, unless we’re talking about infants and toddlers. Everyone has opinions. If someone says that they’re “apolitical” or “don’t give a shit about politics”, it usually means that they have some potentially controversial views they aren’t willing to share.
Or, crazy thought, they're just generally ignorant and/or disinterested people with a very surface level understanding of cultural issues and a reluctance to engage in them precisely because of that; or, on the other hand, people who have engaged with politics and are sufficiently informed about most issues but have deemed those subjects irrelevant or unproductive for whatever reason and chose to focus their patience and efforts on their own immediate needs instead?

God, people, not everything is a crazy conspiracy by the alt-right. Get your heads out of your asses and go outside for a bit.
How did I even remotely suggest that there was some kind of alt-right conspiracy at work? All I said was that no one is truly apolitical. I said absolutely nothing about the alt-right.
That last part wasn't aimed at you specifically, but you did mention that anyone who claims they're apolitical or irreverent about politics is hiding controversial views.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by WittyUsername » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:01 pm

Yuji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:58 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:48 pm
Yuji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm

Or, crazy thought, they're just generally ignorant and/or disinterested people with a very surface level understanding of cultural issues and a reluctance to engage in them precisely because of that; or, on the other hand, people who have engaged with politics and are sufficiently informed about most issues but have deemed those subjects irrelevant or unproductive for whatever reason and chose to focus their patience and efforts on their own immediate needs instead?

God, people, not everything is a crazy conspiracy by the alt-right. Get your heads out of your asses and go outside for a bit.
How did I even remotely suggest that there was some kind of alt-right conspiracy at work? All I said was that no one is truly apolitical. I said absolutely nothing about the alt-right.
That last part wasn't aimed at you specifically, but you did mention that anyone who claims they're apolitical or irreverent about politics is hiding controversial views.
You’re putting words in my mouth. I didn’t say “anyone,” I said “usually.” There are exceptions to everything.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by PurestEvil » Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:59 pm

Well one thing is for certain, people sure love to ARGUE about Dragon Ball!
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:47 pm

Yuji wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:20 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:03 pm The truth is that there is no such thing as an apolitical human being, unless we’re talking about infants and toddlers. Everyone has opinions. If someone says that they’re “apolitical” or “don’t give a shit about politics”, it usually means that they have some potentially controversial views they aren’t willing to share.
Or, crazy thought, they're just generally ignorant and/or disinterested people with a very surface level understanding of cultural issues and a reluctance to engage in them precisely because of that; or, on the other hand, people who have engaged with politics and are sufficiently informed about most issues but have deemed those subjects irrelevant or unproductive for whatever reason and chose to focus their patience and efforts on their own immediate needs instead?

God, people, not everything is a crazy conspiracy by the alt-right. Get your heads out of your asses and go outside for a bit.
This is something that niggas really gotta be mindful of. You don't have to have an opinion of everything in the world and ESPECIALLY if you're not the most well-informed person, feel no obligation to express those opinions and engage in discussions they're not equpped to discuss in the first place. It's really that damn simple. When people are talking about a 30 year old Kung-Fu cartoon they're probably not in the mind gear to discuss sociopolitical issues as they would be when talking about say, The Wire. I'm a 28-year-old black man - if I'm discussing a cartoon I started watching when I was ten years old best believe my mental energy for it is rationed to punches, kicks, and the overly pink hues in the Dragon Boxes. That's just my perspective, but what I'm trying to say is that, the pushback becomes stronger when it gets brought up in discussions that on the surface level, ain't got shit to do with shit.

It's so easy "Just don't engage" but when it's thrown in your face at every opportunity how's a dude not gonna comment at some point even if it's just a simple as "Sir this is a Wendy's."

As they say, read the room.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:31 am

I don’t even think Dragon Ball necessarily warrants big political discussions. Not every discussion about this franchise needs to be political. All I’m saying is that political discussions as they apply to works of fiction are almost impossible to avoid, unless it’s something that’s specifically geared towards toddlers. Plus, when you have a forum that’s dedicated exclusively to a single children’s franchise from the 1980s, it can be difficult to find new things to talk about without getting into things like politics or other works of fiction.

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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:07 am

Well, what specifically do we refer to when we say 'politics'? Feminist and queer critique of the work? The criminal workplace environment of the production of the series? Freeza being based on housing fuckers? Politics is an unavoidable part of any work, Dragon Ball included.

If we can criticize unimportant shit like shitty pacing in an episode or chapter of the comic why can't we criticize the treatment of women, queer people or People of Color in Dragon Ball? Things ostensibly far more important?
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:46 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:07 am Well, what specifically do we refer to when we say 'politics'? Feminist and queer critique of the work? The criminal workplace environment of the production of the series? Freeza being based on housing fuckers? Politics is an unavoidable part of any work, Dragon Ball included.

If we can criticize unimportant shit like shitty pacing in an episode or chapter of the comic why can't we criticize the treatment of women, queer people or People of Color in Dragon Ball? Things ostensibly far more important?
I'm not saying you can't, I'm saying don't be surprised when people's response to the discussion is something between blowing raspberries or the Robert Downye Jr. gif, especially with a series like Dragon Ball. I'd imagine there are folks like myself who talk about more important shit in different spaces. People are looking for different things in their fandom.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by Kid Buu » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:50 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 10:47 pm It's so easy "Just don't engage" but when it's thrown in your face at every opportunity how's a dude not gonna comment at some point even if it's just a simple as "Sir this is a Wendy's."

As they say, read the room.
This reminds me of when I went to an Irish pub in Las Vegas:

Couple sits down
Barman: How may I help you?
Couple: What do you think about Brexit?
Barman: Uh...I'm from Minnoesta.
Couple: We're from LA, so why did you people elect Ilhan Omar?
Barman:

Image

Anyways, to stay on-topic. I would say simple story, good artwork and well done action scenes are what help make Dragon Ball popular.
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by baconisbacc » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:23 am

Jesus Christ, I didn't check this thread for a solid few weeks.

What the actual fuck happened :shock:
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Re: At its core, why is Dragon Ball so loved?

Post by theherodjl » Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:46 am

I love me some power level discussions and DB trivia but I fall asleep the moment in turns into "why my political opinions are better than your political opinions and why you have to acknowledge that". I get so bored easily. :yawn:
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