Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by nhienphan2808 » Thu Sep 02, 2021 10:05 am

It's hard to rewatch yes, but not to reread. I've read it hundreds of times. If any arc in DB and Z ever is the proof that the manga is superior and the anime made it lose like 70% of the charm, it's this arc.
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Who gets told it's his fault for being so careless? Goku.
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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:41 am

It's a drag if you add the filler stuff like the extended adventures with Colonel Silver and Dr. Frappe. It works much better edited down or when just reading the manga. Baba saga however is still annoying as an arbitrary final obstacle.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:51 pm

KBABZ wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:41 am It's a drag if you add the filler stuff like the extended adventures with Colonel Silver and Dr. Frappe. It works much better edited down or when just reading the manga. Baba saga however is still annoying as an arbitrary final obstacle.
Agreed about the RRA arc filler. Personally, I really like the Baba saga for the closure it gives Goku and Grandpa Gohan.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by MasenkoHA » Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:54 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:51 pm
KBABZ wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:41 am It's a drag if you add the filler stuff like the extended adventures with Colonel Silver and Dr. Frappe. It works much better edited down or when just reading the manga. Baba saga however is still annoying as an arbitrary final obstacle.
Agreed about the RRA arc filler. Personally, I really like the Baba saga for the closure it gives Goku and Grandpa Gohan.
That moment was nice but the Baba arc still drags

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by Demon Prince Piccolo » Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:18 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:54 pm That moment was nice but the Baba arc still drags
I wouldn't say it dragged for me. But when you know the 22nd Budokai is coming up (which imho is when Dragon Ball goes from being good to outstanding), then I get wanting to get past that arc.
The story of DRAGON BALL starts from the moment Goku met Bulma. I don't really mind the Z, so long as it's understood that it's not the true beginning of the story.

I actually prefer the Goku vs Tenshinhan and Goku vs Piccolo Jr. rivalries to the Goku vs Vegeta rivalry.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by KBABZ » Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:58 pm

Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:18 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:54 pm That moment was nice but the Baba arc still drags
I wouldn't say it dragged for me. But when you know the 22nd Budokai is coming up (which imho is when Dragon Ball goes from being good to outstanding), then I get wanting to get past that arc.
Exactly. I felt like it was spinning up and delaying the story again for very thin reasons. Goku reuniting with Gohan is incredibly sweet, but after the climax of the RRA HQ it feels very weird to throw such a big obstacle in the way AFTER dealing with the one you established from the start.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by ABED » Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:00 pm

KBABZ wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 6:58 pm
Demon Prince Piccolo wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 2:18 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 1:54 pm That moment was nice but the Baba arc still drags
I wouldn't say it dragged for me. But when you know the 22nd Budokai is coming up (which imho is when Dragon Ball goes from being good to outstanding), then I get wanting to get past that arc.
Exactly. I felt like it was spinning up and delaying the story again for very thin reasons. Goku reuniting with Gohan is incredibly sweet, but after the climax of the RRA HQ it feels very weird to throw such a big obstacle in the way AFTER dealing with the one you established from the start.
It's like the Scouring of the Shire. After the ring is gone, you just want he damn story to end.
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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by MyVisionity » Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:56 pm

I like the Baba arc. I appreciate that the story doesn't end when you expect it to. Sometimes things just keep going and going. Dragon Ball is weird and offbeat. Things aren't always clean and straightforward. That's the nature of manga and anime.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:50 am

MyVisionity wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 11:56 pm That's the nature of manga and anime.
Only because they're not planned out in advance a lot of the time. If I were writing the RRA Arc and absolutely HAD to include Baba, I would have included a bit more foreshadowing that Goku's job isn't done after RRA HQ, and that he notices one of the Dragon Balls disappear of his Radar, to give the viewer more preparation for a story afterwards.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:15 am

The lack of foreshadowing isn't the issue, it's that the story is nearing the end and he's already defeated his big enemy, and a tournament feels like filler. That said, I like it in and of itself.
Sometimes things just keep going and going.
I don't see that as a positive.
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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by MyVisionity » Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:27 pm

It's good to throw the audience for a loop sometimes and confuse them. It's one of the benefits of manga not being planned in advance, you get to play with the reader's mind a little bit. It kind of reminds me of Peanuts or a newspaper strip in a way, where sometimes it's just like where the fuck is this story going? That can make for an interesting and memorable reading experience.

I also think that it's a good thing to give the audience what they don't want. Like if the story reaches a climax and the reader wants it to end, the author can take advantage of that desire and turn it around on the reader, giving them something different and unexpected instead.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:03 pm

Why is refusing to let a story end a good thing? I get that it's unexpected but I don't see that as a positive.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by 90sDBZ » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:23 pm

I actually like the Baba arc, and enjoy it more than certain parts of the RRA arc. It might be partially because I'm a fan of classic horror, which is referenced a lot here.

But it also feels appropriate in how Goku initially set off to find Gohan's Dragon Ball, and ends up getting to see the man himself. It comes full circle in that way.
KBABZ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:50 am If I were writing the RRA Arc and absolutely HAD to include Baba, I would have included a bit more foreshadowing that Goku's job isn't done after RRA HQ, and that he notices one of the Dragon Balls disappear of his Radar, to give the viewer more preparation for a story afterwards.
There was foreshadowing in the anime at least. There was that scene at Korin Tower with the past, present, and future barrels of water, with the latter giving us an early glimpse at Baba and a masked Gohan. It was actually a really well done scene and created this eerie sense of mystery, (or would have if I hadn't seen Z first and already knew who Baba was).

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:30 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:23 pm I actually like the Baba arc, and enjoy it more than certain parts of the RRA arc. It might be partially because I'm a fan of classic horror, which is referenced a lot here.
I like the classic horror aesthetic too but we also got that in a 50 minute movie that just does it better. At 10 episodes where Goku fights 3 of the 5 fighters it just feels so stretched out. I don’t mind the existence of the Baba arc but it felt like Toriyama needed to kill time while he thought of the next big arc.

There was foreshadowing in the anime at least. There was that scene at Korin Tower with the past, present, and future barrels of water, with the latter giving us an early glimpse at Baba and a masked Gohan. It was actually a really well done scene and created this eerie sense of mystery, (or would have if I hadn't seen Z first and already knew who Baba was).
I liked that. It was nice to see the anime take advantage of the fact the manga was still a decent amount ahead of as opposed to Z where the manga was always barely ahead no matter how much time Z used to stall.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by JulieYBM » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:04 pm

Oh my gosh, the Baba stuff was ten episodes? What the fuck? How did I forget that? That's like...three episodes of story right there not TEN!
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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by KBABZ » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:22 pm

90sDBZ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 8:23 pm I actually like the Baba arc, and enjoy it more than certain parts of the RRA arc. It might be partially because I'm a fan of classic horror, which is referenced a lot here.

But it also feels appropriate in how Goku initially set off to find Gohan's Dragon Ball, and ends up getting to see the man himself. It comes full circle in that way.
KBABZ wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 5:50 am If I were writing the RRA Arc and absolutely HAD to include Baba, I would have included a bit more foreshadowing that Goku's job isn't done after RRA HQ, and that he notices one of the Dragon Balls disappear of his Radar, to give the viewer more preparation for a story afterwards.
There was foreshadowing in the anime at least. There was that scene at Korin Tower with the past, present, and future barrels of water, with the latter giving us an early glimpse at Baba and a masked Gohan. It was actually a really well done scene and created this eerie sense of mystery, (or would have if I hadn't seen Z first and already knew who Baba was).
I suppose but for me I would have done it where Goku looks at the Radar, sees two blips, can't decide which one to go for, and then one of them disappears. Cut to a lid being put on the box with "Ahh, that should keep it hidden!" with no indication on who it is. With no other option Goku flies to the other blip and finds the RRA HQ as he wanted.
JulieYBM wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:04 pm Oh my gosh, the Baba stuff was ten episodes? What the fuck? How did I forget that? That's like...three episodes of story right there not TEN!
Yeahhh exactly, filled with fight extensions, Baba wanting to take Goku in as her latest fighter, blah blah blah. Cut all that out in my T1C project to five episodes, works much better just zipping through it as a last bump in the road.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by ABED » Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:51 pm

The arc works great in isolation, and I like Goku and friends having to fight an entire contest to get the DB's, but as the resolution of an already long arc, it takes away from an otherwise really fun arc.
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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by MasenkoHA » Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:00 pm

ABED wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:51 pm The arc works great in isolation, and I like Goku and friends having to fight an entire contest to get the DB's, but as the resolution of an already long arc, it takes away from an otherwise really fun arc.
That actually wouldn’t have been a bad idea to separate the arcs. Like end Red Ribbon with Goku having all 7 dragon balls and summoning Shen Long to resurrect Bora and instead of just nabbing the 4-star ball he decides he can wait another year and THEN a year later Roshi tells Goku that Baba can tell him exactly where the four star ball is and the arc otherwise plays as normal (excluding Upa I suppose) and the Pilaf gang has the four star ball on them instead.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by 90sDBZ » Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:00 pm
ABED wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:51 pm The arc works great in isolation, and I like Goku and friends having to fight an entire contest to get the DB's, but as the resolution of an already long arc, it takes away from an otherwise really fun arc.
That actually wouldn’t have been a bad idea to separate the arcs. Like end Red Ribbon with Goku having all 7 dragon balls and summoning Shen Long to resurrect Bora and instead of just nabbing the 4-star ball he decides he can wait another year and THEN a year later Roshi tells Goku that Baba can tell him exactly where the four star ball is and the arc otherwise plays as normal (excluding Upa I suppose) and the Pilaf gang has the four star ball on them instead.
The problem with that is the stakes would be much lower. Bora's life is a much bigger deal than Goku getting the 4 star ball.

I don't have a problem with the way it is honestly. Z in particular continues the trend of one thing leading straight into another. You could easily class the Saiyan and Frieza arcs as one big one, as it takes until the end for everyone to be revived. And then as soon as Goku gets home we've already met Trunks and hear about the Androids.

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Re: Anyone else find the RRA arc hard to rewatch?

Post by ABED » Sat Sep 11, 2021 3:30 pm

The issue isn't one thing leading straight into another, it's the resolution of a story requires its own arc.

The Freeza and Saiyan arcs are distinct arcs. It's not the same thing. The arc begins with Goku on a mission to find his grandfather's DB and ends after Baba's tournament.
The biggest truths aren't original. The truth is ketchup. It's Jim Belushi. Its job isn't to blow our minds. It's to be within reach.
"You miss 100% of the shots you don't take - Wayne Gretzky" - Michael Scott
Happiness is climate, not weather.

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