Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:11 pm

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Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 81 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

The Other World Tournament, the end of Goku's journey (until Toriyama decided against it), and next week, the Boo arc begins.

Previous thread: Week 80 (DBZ 192-193, movie 9)
Next thread: Week 82 (DBZ 200-204)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 348 - A Great Inspiration!! I’m Ready! The Awesome Guy from the Afterlife (DBZ episode 195)
Dub title: Warriors of the Dead
Originally aired 28th of July 1993

Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Keisuke Masunaga


Goku goes to Planet Dai Kaiō to try and meet the Dai Kaiō, said to be the strongest in the afterlife. There Goku meets Paikuhan, the martial arts master of the western galaxy. The Dai Kaiō then shows himself, but he tells them that the dead Cell and Freeza are running wild in Hell. Goku heads to Hell with Paikuhan, but Paikuhan instantly defeats Cell and the rest. Goku is inspired by Paikuhan’s strength.

Anime-only/filler content: The whole episode.

Episode 349 - I’m the Best in the Afterlife!! The Great Assembly of Past Heroes (DBZ episode 196)
Dub title: Tournament Begins
Originally aired 11th of August 1993

Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Kazuhito Kikuchi
Animation supervisor: Yūji Hakamada


The Kaiō of the North, East, South, and West are all assembled, and so the curtain opens on the Afterlife Tournament. As a test for the newcomer Goku, the East Kaiō races him, but he somehow manages to become able to enter. The Afterlife Tournament then begins. Goku’s opponent is Caterpi, a representative of the southern galaxy. With a caterpillar-like body, Caterpi becomes a pupa in order to transform! But it will be 1,200 years until he hatches… Ultimately, it ends up being Goku’s victory.

Anime-only/filler content: The whole episode.

Episode 350 - Wild Enthusiasm on Dai Kaiō’s Planet!! Goku Stirs Up a Whirlwind (DBZ episode 197)
Dub title: Water Fight
Originally aired 18th of August 1993

Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


The fierce battles continue at the Afterlife Tournament. Goku’s next opponent is Arqua of the southern galaxy!! Though he seems weak, Arqua has the power to change anywhere into water, and so he covers the ring in water. Goku has a tough fight against Arqua, who specializes in underwater battles! But Goku wins by blowing the watery ring and Arqua away with a Kamehameha! Meanwhile, Paikuhan continues to win, defeating Olivu, hero of the northern galaxy, at the end of a fierce battle.

Anime-only/filler content: The whole episode.

Episode 351 - A Blazing Decision!! Will it be Goku or Paikuhan?! (DBZ episode 198)
Dub title: Final Round
Originally aired 25th of August 1993

Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Osamu Kasai
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


Goku and Paikuhan do well and advance along. Goku defeats Maraiko of the western galaxy, and advances to the finals. Paikuhan also makes it, and the finals are set with a showdown between him and Goku. The finals match then begins, and just as imagined it becomes a stupendous battle. Though Paikuhan had been going easy on Goku in their fight, he removes his weighted clothing after he learns Goku’s strength. Seeing this, Goku becomes a Super Saiyan and faces off with him.

Anime-only/filler content: Notice the pattern here. :P

Episode 352 - Don’t Let Victory Escape!! Decided With an Ultra-Fast Kamehameha (DBZ episode 199)
Dub title: Goku vs. Pikkon
Originally aired 1st of September 1993

Written by: Aya Matsui
Episode director: Hiroki Shibata
Animation supervisor: Naoki Miyahara


With Goku having become a Super Saiyan, a grand and fierce battle continues between him and Paikuhan. Goku is heavily damaged by Paikuhan’s special attack, the Thunder Flash, and is in an absolutely desperate pinch!! But taking advantage of the opening when Paikuhan fires the technique, Goku blows him away with a Kamehameha. Goku has somehow won. However, according to the Dai Kaiō’s judgment, the two of them are disqualified for violating the rules. But the truth is that the Dai Kaiō didn’t want to train Goku, who was too strong for him…

Anime-only/filler content: Still everything. Yes, even the end bit with Gohan leaving for high school.

-

Interesting trivia:
  • At this point in time in the manga, the Youth Division gets underway, Trunks and Goten fight in the YD Finals, and Trunks punches Mr. Satan's lights out.
    • As you may have noticed, this means that both the Youth Division and Other World Tournament debuted at the same time, with both wrapping up in the same week!
  • The Other World Tournament Arc marks the last time Dragon Ball Z used the Cha-La Head Cha-La OP and its related motifs introduced in Z episode 1, including the Eyecatches, ED, and Recap music. The Cha-La intro would not re-appear on an anime product until the Jump Special in 2008, which remade it with the more modern post-Boo cast (replacing Kid Gohan with Goten and so on). These themes, including the recap, would be replaced by new cues based on the new OP introduced in Z episode 200, continuing the tradition since Z episode 1 of the OP forming the basis of the recap theme (since DB didn't have a particular recap theme, though it did indeed rearrange the OP for the eyecatch and preview themes).
    • While the Kenji Yamamoto Kai 1.0 recap used a rearrangement of Dragon Soul, the other two Kai scores use unrelated themes, Kikuchi Kai's recap being one of the variants of Piccolo's theme.
  • This is the first Dragon Ball Arc to flesh out the Other World hierarchy since Goku originally visited Other World in the Saiyan Arc.
  • In the opening recap scene of Episode 195, Gregory manages to fall off the cliff despite the fact that he can fly.
  • It's been six years since Goku was last on Snake Way, and originally met Goz and Mez.
  • In the wide shot of Snake Way where Kaio reiterates that they're both dead, his halo is missing.
  • This is the second time Goku has gotten in trouble for referring to Other World's major authority figures casually. Back in the Saiyan Arc, God scolded him for addressing King Yenma with a "Yo". He'll do exactly that when he meets Yenma again a few moments after Kaio scolds him.
  • In the shot of the Grand Kaio with a sphere of the universe on his index finger, the sphere of the universe is based on a diagram of the cosmos Toriyama drew to establish the geography of it all to assist Toei.
    • Most notably, Shin and Kibito's true origins had yet to be revealed in the manga. This makes it possible that Toriyama incorporated the elements he established for the Other World Tournament into the Boo Arc as part of shifting back to a more traditional status quo with higher stakes than ever before (although it must be made clear that this is pure conjecture on our part). Whether that is true or not, the Other World Tournament acts as a convenient primer to reintroduce Other World and flesh it out before it reappears for the Boo Arc.
  • As in the Saiyan arc and later on when Pure Boo goes on his planet-destroying rampage, the souls in Other World do not have their bodies reformed when meeting with King Yenma, meanwhile Goku (and Cell) have been depicted as having their bodies at the Check-in Station. This subject is brought up with the attendant as Goku tries to leave.
  • The use of Boeing 747s to travel to Heaven in is similar to Goku traveling in the bubble car to get to Snake Way. The 747 landing pads are all based on God's Lookout, giving a better sense of scale to the place (however none of them are anywhere near long enough for a real 747 to take off or land!)
  • This is the first time Goku has been on a commercial-style airplane since he travelled to the 21st Tournament 27 years earlier. Just like then, he stares out and marvels at the view out the window.
  • The Grand Kaio's grounds have several references to Washington DC: The Hall of the Grand Kaio looks like the White House, and an obelisk identical to the Washington Monument is visible behind it.
  • Both Paikuhan and the Grand Kaio were designed by Toriyama. It's possible that South Kaio was as well given that he appeared in a manga scene the month before the Other World Tournament Arc began.
  • Paikuhan's name comes from pork ribs (paikuu) and rice (han); pork ribs with a side of rice. Funimation ignored this and called him "Pikkon", pronounced "Pie con". In the Westwood dub, they settled on a different pronunciation, sounding like the word pecan.
  • Appropriately, Goku's rival Paikuhan is from the West.
  • West Kaio is the only one not to have a pair of antenna, instead having a Teletubbies-style curl.
  • The Grand Kaio uses a similar subversion to Master Roshi, both being wise old men who turn out to be goofballs a lot of the time. That said, the Grand Kaio pulls this off much more wholesomely than Roshi does.
  • In the panning shot of Freeza and the Ginyu Force, Ghurd's extra eyes are coloured black.
  • Freeza's design here adds thicker lines around his eyes with additional points on the outer corners.
  • Pauline Newstone reprised the role of Freeza in the Westwood dub for the character's very brief return in these episodes. Funny to imagine her being brought into the studio, a full four years (at least) after she was recording for the Freeza arc, just to record five or six lines.
  • Hell as depicted in the anime is very different from what's said about it in the manga. In the manga, the souls of evil go there to be cleansed and then recycled into the world of the living (like with Uub). In the anime, and indeed Resurrection 'F', it's depicted like the circles of hell where evil people (bodies included) are sent to be punished. RoF and Super diverge from the anime by giving each villain a personalized hell, so that Freeza could be revived for the story to work.
    • Freeza is also depicted as being in his partially-mechanised form in Super/RoF, unlike here the Other World Tournament.
  • Why are the villains resurrected with their bodies if it means they'll cause so much trouble??
  • When Goku powers up to Super Saiyain when dealing with Cell and Frieza, his hair remains black despite the aura and lighting around his gi, making him appear very similar to the Super Saiyan form from Lord Slug. The reason for this is that the scene was originally animated with Goku as a Super Saiyan, as can be seen in the previous episode's next-episode preview, but Toei's writers wanted Goku to surprise Paikuhan with the form at the end of Episode 199, so they coloured his hair black without making any other changes, making this a sort of seem like a "half-charged" Super Saiyan.
    • This is actually used in the manga itself: when Goku turns Super Saiyan while using the arm and leg weights in the early Buu Arc, there's a single panel where he has his aura and his hair is dark grey rather than black or white.
  • Cell claims credit for killing Goku. While this is true and was done in a weaker form, it was hardly in hand-to-hand combat and thus not as impressive as he's making it out to be. Further, Goku doesn't even feel the need to fight him as a Super Saiyan this time. Perhaps hellbound bodies are weakened for situations precisely like this.
  • King Cold's defeat here, where he clasps his stomach before collapsing onto the ground, is reminiscent of Gohan's gut punch on Perfect Cell during the Cell Games.
  • In the Familiar Timeline, Goku has not laid a finger or even said a word to King Cold, being beaten to the punch by both Future Trunks and Paikuhan.
  • Among Kaio's assembly of past students and heroes is a character who looks like a squashed Lord Slug.
  • Olive's design appears to be at least partially influenced by Hercules, as referenced by Kaio saying that he's immortalized in Earth mythology. This is also referenced in his name: Greece is famous for its olive trees.
    • The character's name in the Funimation scripts is rendered as "Olibu", probably due to his name in Japanese really being, roughly, "Olivue". Doesn't explain why they didn't just call him Olivue, but I suppose you can't expect that from the team who rendered "Sno" and "Suno".
  • The anime depicts the four Kaio worlds as all being the same small size as North Kaio's. Super would of course contradict this with Beerus being the reason why North Kaio's world is so small. It is possible that Beerus did the same to all four Kaio worlds. This would be an extraordinary coincidence, yet somehow unsurprising.
  • The anime also depicts the halos as a tangible object, as shown when East Kaio taps North Kaio's to the side and he grasps it. It seems to automatically return to its intended position, and this is sometimes reflected in the animation of this arc where the halo follows the head with a slight delay rather than being locked above it.
  • For all of their mockery of North Kaio being dead, nobody seems to mention the fact that the East, West and South galaxies were destroyed by Broly, meaning Dragon Ball canon is officially screwed.
    • Granted, if he went there, those Kaios could easily say to him "And whose galaxy is Broly from in the first place?"
  • The music used for the East Kaio race's first half is the same music used when Goku chased Oolong after he tries escaping as a missile.
  • Goku isn't able to use Instant Transmission for the race because the finish line has no ki for him to lock onto. Also, that'd be cheating.
  • The Other World Tournament arena has a large square ring, much like the 25th Tenkaichu Budokai. Similar to the Cell Games, this is a bit of a trope with the Dragon Ball Tournaments, with the official events having square rings while the unofficial ones (like at Baba's Palace) have circular ones.
  • The Other World Tournament has no judges, meaning the Tenkaichi Budokai is the only one to utilize them.
  • The symbol on Grand Kaio's hat, 大, means "big", "great", or "grand". 90s kids will know it as the symbol used for the Fire Blast move in Pokémon, as made famous by Blaine's Magmar. The symbol forms the first part of his full name/title, 大界王; Dai (大) Kai (界) Ou (王), meaning Grand World King (or perhaps Great Lord of Worlds, if you're a Viz manga fan). In combination with the famous emblem on the front of his regal outfit (which combines 界 and 王), his name can be read vertically just like real Japanese scripture!
  • The graphics used to show the rules are reminiscent of NES and SNES games of that area. The use of bricks as the ground in particular is a reference to Super Mario Bros., while the straight diagonal legs are like Megaman.
  • As noted by the Announcer, Chapchai uses his extreme speed to use the Afterimage technique. This is somewhat contrary to the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai, where Goku moved so fast he wasn't visible at all.
  • Chapchai's halo also doesn't scale to his size, meaning his halo is much larger than his head. This is in contrast to Malaiko, whose huge dragon head does have a scaled-up halo.
  • Caterpi shares his name with the famous bug Pokémon from Generation I, which wouldn't release for another two and a half years. Caterpi also turns white, and the Announcer says he's "starting to transform", both of which are things associated with Pokémon.
  • Caterpi is also a "gimmick fighter", a character type not seen since the 21st Tournament and Man-Wolf in the 22nd.
  • The music for when Goku is trapped and tickled by Caterpi's arms is from the 22nd Tenkaichi Budokai.
  • While Furog's name pun is obvious, Tolbee's name swaps the kanji for "beetle", similar to Tsufru reversing those for "frutsu". The big wing covers and shiny appearance allude to this.
  • Other non-obvious name puns include:
    • Migoren, named after Mee goreng, an Indonesian dish made with fried egg and noodles.
    • Sarte, named after satay
    • Chapu-Chai is a variant of chop suey
    • Jinkyo is the word kyojin ("giant") rearranged.
    • Tapikar likely comes from tapioca.
    • Maraiko is named after a type of Chinese Castella cake.
  • The sound of Tolbee's flight uses the same buzzing sound as Cell's, referring to their insect-like design. It makes more sense for Tolbee however as his wings are actually visible.
  • Goku jumps up to the ring even though the steps are RIGHT THERE!
  • The ring has steps on each of the four corners, likely due to the four-team nature of the event it was created for. This doesn't seem to cause orientation problems.
  • Interestingly, when Aqua turns the ring into water, it retains its general square shape.
  • Goku appears to have trouble swimming, despite being able to fly by moving the ki in his own body.
  • Goku's Kamehameha to Aqua is depicted as it is in the manga, where the ki only appears once it's been fired (rather than charging in the hands as the words are recited).
  • Olive's role in the tournament is very similar to Yamucha, being Goku's weaker associate who is knocked out in the Round of 8 by the main rival that Goku will face in the final match. Conversely, West Kaio's is similar to Crane Hermit, being the bragging loud-mouth master of Goku's stoic rival.
  • This isn't the first time Goku has faced off against a purple-skinned, pale-bellied dragon several times his height. Remember Giran?
  • The shot of Goku running up to Malaiko and them punching is matted to widescreen. This is reminiscent of the end of Dragon Ball Episode 135, where blue letterboxes appeared for the final two shots of the episode as Tien and Cyborg Tao sized each other up.
  • As shown by Goku and Malaiko's match, simply touching the planetoids above the arena doesn't count as a ring-out!
  • Goku rings out Malaiko by grabbing him from the tail and throwing him out of the arena. Two and a half years later, Mario would do the same to his own dragon-like rival, Bowser, in Super Mario 64.
  • Paikuhan appears to be unfamiliar with characters suppressing their ki. In fact, nobody seems to actually read ki at all during this arc.
  • As implied by the offers of their bet, West Kaio doesn't seem to know that North Kaio's world was destroyed.
  • Grand Kaio is much more familiar with the dead being hungry than North Kaio was when he first met Goku, who was apparently the first dead person he ever met who got hungry.
  • Paikuhan removing his weighted white-clothed clothing adds more comparisons to his similarities to Piccolo (Goku himself notes this as he picks up Paikuhan's clothing). Goku himself is in the reverse position from usual: at the 23rd Tournament it was Tien who was reacting to Goku's weighted clothes in the ring.
  • The anime adds lightning to Goku's Super Saiyan state at the end of Episode 198, despite him not using Super Saiyan 2. This was a common error made by the anime that makes it very unclear whether someone is using the form or not.
  • In the opening wide shot of Episode 199, the background painter remembered to show the corner of the ring that was destroyed at the start of the fight.
  • Goku's use of Super Saiyan against Paikuhan actually contradicts the manga: there, Goku shocks South Kaio by using the Super Saiyan form to spar with four ten-ton weights on his arms and legs.
  • The slices of light that go across Goku as he's struck inside the Hyper Tornado actually match the cuts made onto his gi.
  • The Hyper Tornado is one of the few techniques that actively causes bleeding in the target, a rarity for Dragon Ball.
  • Goku visibly uses the Kaio-Ken for the first time since the Saiyan Arc (not counting when Kaio pointed it out in the fight against Frieza). Why he was potentially able to use it in the afterlife but never in the living world is explained by Super, where it's explained that a Saiyan can't use Kaio Ken while Super Saiyan as it would stress the living body too much, similar to Super Saiyan 3, a form Goku was only able to learn/obtain in Other World, with practically unlimited ki and no risk of dying.
  • Goku's use of Kaioken in the Other World Tournament is also the second time Kaioken was pronounced correctly in a piece of English media. While Funimation continued to insist on the incorrect "Kayoken" pronunciation (as was the case in all their pre-Kai dubs, including the 1996-1997 Saban/Ocean dub), Ocean once again had their actors prononuce it correctly. The previous time was the Pioneer movies, the first time they weren't co-directed by Barry Watson.
  • Both of Paikuhan's named moves are named after weather phenomenon.
  • Goku uses the same pair of techniques to blast Paikuhan out of the ring that he used to end the match against Cell in the Cell Games: the Warp Kamehameha.
  • In the crowd of fighters who reacts to Goku's Warp Kamehameha is a Toribot, a woman who looks like Chun-Li from Street Fighter, and a character who looks like Hero from Dragon Quest V.
  • Technically Goku still should have won his match against Paikuhan, since Paikuhan touched the ceiling of the arena first. If this logic were applied to past Tournaments then technically Tien would have also lost the 22nd Tournament, since he also touched the ground outside the arena.
  • The actual winner of the Other World Tournament after Goku and Paikuhan are disqualified is never mentioned. Presumably it would have been decided by an additional match between Malaiko and Torbee, who lost to them in the Semi-Finals. That fact that no such match happens means there probably was no winner outright.
  • The disqualification is also not the first infraction Goku made in the tournament. Goku clearly hits Malaiko below the belt, and Goku violates the "No blinding attacks" rule by using the Taiyo-Ken. The Funimation dub addresses the latter by changing the Announcer's phrasing of the rule to "no poking in the eye", matching the diagram more literally.
  • The prelude to the Great Saiyaman Saga at the end of Episode 199 is the only part of the Boo Arc that is bookended by Ha La Head Cha-La, Zenkai Power, and the other classic Dragon Ball Z music pieces. In this case the use of Zenkai Power is almost thematically appropriate given that Gohan is now attending high school.
    • Interestingly this prelude is not used for the start of Dragon Ball Z Kai Episode 99 that kicks off the Buu Arc; it uses the start of Z Episode 200 instead.
  • The little Saiyaman prelude begins Kyle Hebert's (Funimation) and Brad Swaile's (Ocean) work as grown-up Gohan, as well as the debut of Kara Edwards (Funimation) and Jillian Michaels (Ocean) as Goten. Both of these characters were voiced by Masako Nozawa in Japanese.
  • It's possible that the Other World Tournament is only five episodes long specifically so that the start of the next manga arc would debut on Episode 200.
Trivia primarily written by KBABZ. Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:52 pm

This was my first time watching the Other World Tournament! It was very fun, probably the best Filler Arc of them all. I loved the return to the Gag Fighter format for the early rounds, it benefited a lot from being much less grounded compared to what the fighters were capable of back in the 21st Tournament. I did however feel it had a downturn with the Paikuhan final, which was just a stock Dragon Ball fight with no real stakes, unlike the match with Tenshinhan at the 22nd Tournament.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:12 pm

These episodes are okay but man even as a child it annoyed me how easily Pikkahan defeated Cell and Freeza and King Cold. Especially Cell. It’s not the best idea to make the super powerful big bad from like 4 episodes ago get taken down like a chump just to make Pikkhan look formidable.

Funny though since none of these bad guys should even have their bodies to wreck havoc.

I never quite understood the hierarchy of “There are four Kaios overseeing each cardinal direction of the universe and above them is Dai Kaio who oversees them but above HIM is four Kaioshins who ALSO oversee each cardinal direction of the universe and above them is Dai Kaioshin. Seems redundant and needlessly complicated. I’d give it to Super for seemingly retconning and streamlining this convoluted cosmos hierarchy e so it appears there is only one Kaioshin above the 4 Kaios in each universe but I guess the Super manga goes out of its way to remind you the other Kaioshins and Dai Kaioshin still exist?

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:22 pm

Overall this is by far the best of the DBZ filler episodes/arcs, definitely superior to Garlic Jr. and it's a good time killer before transitioning to the seven year time skip with Gohan now being a teenager and starting high school. As noted this is also the last batch of episodes with Head Cha-La and Zenkai Power before the Buu arc OP/ED would debut with episode 200 onward.
Caterpi shares his name with the famous bug Pokémon from Generation I, which wouldn't release for another two and a half years.
I found it interesting that someone had that name pre Pokemon, and the OG games (Green and Red, while over here we got Red and a modified version of Green with the tweaked graphics of the Japanese Blue edition as Pokemon Blue) didn't release until early 1996 as Satoshi Tajiri was developing the game concept since about 1991 but it went through quite a lengthy development cycle before seeing release.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:07 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:12 pm These episodes are okay but man even as a child it annoyed me how easily Pikkahan defeated Cell and Freeza and King Cold. Especially Cell. It’s not the best idea to make the super powerful big bad from like 4 episodes ago get taken down like a chump just to make Pikkhan look formidable.
Worked for Future Trunks, didn't it?

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:41 pm

KBABZ wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 10:07 pm
MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 3:12 pm These episodes are okay but man even as a child it annoyed me how easily Pikkahan defeated Cell and Freeza and King Cold. Especially Cell. It’s not the best idea to make the super powerful big bad from like 4 episodes ago get taken down like a chump just to make Pikkhan look formidable.
Worked for Future Trunks, didn't it?

So for me at least it worked for Future Trunks because it wasn’t just to make Future Trunk look uber powerful and badass but to establish just how dangerous the Androids were. It was already established Freeza couldn’t match the powers of a Super Saiyan so it felt pretty natural for another Super Saiyan to do him in for good. But ACTUALLY Future Trunks came to warn Son Goku about the cyborgs that will kill everyone. The guy that killed Freeza and Papa Freeza with ease is dead scared of these things. It doesn’t diminish the threat Freeza used to be but establishes just how dangerous the upcoming threat really it.

There is no escalation of stakes by showing Pikhan deal with Cell and company with ease. Him and Goku are just gonna participate in a low stakes tournament and with Goku defeating Pikhan as a regular ol Super Saiyan it quite honestly doesn’t make much sense.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:01 am

Paikuhan easily taking care of Cell has always bothered me, but I've always liked this arc anyway.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:48 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:22 pm I found it interesting that someone had that name pre Pokemon, and the OG games (Green and Red, while over here we got Red and a modified version of Green with the tweaked graphics of the Japanese Blue edition as Pokemon Blue) didn't release until early 1996 as Satoshi Tajiri was developing the game concept since about 1991 but it went through quite a lengthy development cycle before seeing release.

Off topic but both American Red and Blue use Japanese Blue’s graphics and game script (which is why at one point in American Red/Blue an NPC acts like the Raichu you gave him evolve because in Japanese Blue you gave him Kadabra) American Red=Japanese Blue graphics and Japanese Red’s Pokemon availability American Blue= Japanese Blue Graphic and Japanese Green’s availability

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:01 am Paikuhan easily taking care of Cell has always bothered me, but I've always liked this arc anyway.
Oh yeah the arc itself is fine it’s just that one moment that irked me.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:48 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 6:22 pm I found it interesting that someone had that name pre Pokemon, and the OG games (Green and Red, while over here we got Red and a modified version of Green with the tweaked graphics of the Japanese Blue edition as Pokemon Blue) didn't release until early 1996 as Satoshi Tajiri was developing the game concept since about 1991 but it went through quite a lengthy development cycle before seeing release.

Off topic but both American Red and Blue use Japanese Blue’s graphics and game script (which is why at one point in American Red/Blue an NPC acts like the Raichu you gave him evolve because in Japanese Blue you gave him Kadabra) American Red=Japanese Blue graphics and Japanese Red’s Pokemon availability American Blue= Japanese Blue Graphic and Japanese Green’s availability

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:01 am Paikuhan easily taking care of Cell has always bothered me, but I've always liked this arc anyway.
Oh yeah the arc itself is fine it’s just that one moment that irked me.
That's right, it just slipped my mind there that both of them were taken from the Japanese Blue version as Pocket Monsters/Pokemon Green had a different layout and graphics/sprite designs (plus the JPN Red and Green had a butt load of glitches) and so Nintendo of America i guess when localizing the games decided that the former looked better and used them for the domestic Red and Blue releases.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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BlazingFiddlesticks
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by BlazingFiddlesticks » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:35 pm

Went through this in almost one go yesterday, I cannot help but like. It is a Goku centered story after his long absences in the Cell arc, a deliberately lighthearted pallet cleanser after spending almost thirty TV episodes under the shadow of Perfect Cell, and it brings Goku back to his old tournament shenanigans in the one place left in the universe that could do it. I can even appreciate the degree to which Pikkon channels a non-lethal Piccolo Jr.. Of course it rather ruins the whole afterlife conceit with Goku ostensibly becoming one of its best fighters on his first day there, but that is a necessary evil to do colorful fights at this stage of Dragon Ball, and a single tournament never could show every possible fighter. Its a Dragon Ball Valhalla welcome buffet for Goku, really. Grand Kai and South Kai being their shamelessly laid back selves always gets me. (Also how could Aqua make it to the finals and still have his water control be a surprise? Can't let that one go!)

Pikkon incapacitating Cell was definitely too much. Cell was in the story for too long, and the gaps in strengths between even the strongest characters in the Cell Games too wide for you to need to trounce him to get not-Piccolo's credentials established. Masenko is right, in this instance it doesn't make Pikkon look good, it really just disrespects our investment in prior story without the kind of payoff that usual comes with in the manga material. If you're going to do villains in Hell during an entirely disconnected story designed to fill time you might as well dedicate another episode to it.

Oh, this got me.

Image

And where did this time patroller come from?

Image
KBABZ wrote: Mon Jul 19, 2021 12:52 pmI did however feel it had a downturn with the Paikuhan final, which was just a stock Dragon Ball fight with no real stakes, unlike the match with Tenshinhan at the 22nd Tournament.
Surprisingly felt the opposite, I think after all the goofiness we were ready for a couple of serious fights just to show off. The final episode really had the appropriate hit of "wait when the animation get more fluid?".
JulieYBM wrote:
Pannaliciour wrote:Reading all the comments and interviews, my conclusion is: nobody knows what the hell is going on.
Just like Dragon Ball since Chapter #4.
son veku wrote:
Metalwario64 wrote:
BlazingFiddlesticks wrote:Kingdom Piccolo
Where is that located?
Canada

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Majin Buu
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 81 - DBZ 195-199

Post by Majin Buu » Wed Jul 28, 2021 12:36 pm

I love the afterlife tournament. It's another example of the anime expanding on Toriyama's material in a way that makes the Dragon Ball world feel more full. With its focus on the god hierarchy and the afterlife, I've always viewed it as a sort of cold open to the Buu arc. I also like how it functions as a more surreal take on the tournament arc format, especially since we haven't had a proper tournament arc in quite a while.

Also, Pikkon taking down Cell never bothered me. The arc is such a refreshing change of pace that I can overlook that inconsistency.

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