Has the franchise become too reliant on transformations?

[WittyUsername]

Transformations already became a normal occurrence in the franchise by the Freeza arc, but they seem particularly blatant in Super. Almost every arc introduces one or two new transformation for one of the Saiyan characters. The manga has now given Vegeta yet another new transformation.

[Grimlock]

Yes. And while that is not entirely/inherently a bad thing, it does become a bad thing when most of the new transformations are for Saiyans (and when they take a concept and make a transformation out of it, like "God of Destruction". Why the hell is that a form!? ).

It's like, they can't give other characters some forms too. Again, there's no problem turning Dragon Ball into Digimon, with lots of forms and such, but since we're at that point, couldn't they at least give something for other characters that aren't Saiyans?

Would someone get killed if humans get the Kaio-Ken technique and Piccolo the red-eyed transformation?

[Yuji]

Not more than it already was. Blue was Goku and Vegeta's main form in the manga for multiple arcs, from RF essentially until the current arc where they have split off into different power-ups. That's six arcs. That's the highest mileage any form in the series has got.

The anime does seem to introduce a lot more spectacle forms for no reason, but the manga generally builds on the forms in a cohesive way that feels in-line with the original series. God established a new plateau of power, Blue was the next step. Afterwards, mastering Blue became the focus. Blue's different incarnations in the manga (incomplete, complete, evolved) are really no different than the progression to master Super Saiyan in the original series. Rosé is essentially just Blue, Trunks mastered Super Saiyan 2 to get rid of the stamina drain, Kale was just a Super Saiyan, Ultra Instinct has been built up from RF as the thematic culmination of Goku's character, and Vegeta's new form is the culimation of his decision to stray away from Goku's path. Not only are the forms organically written in terms of lore, they are always thematically significant for the characters as well.

It is the anime that really kicks up the transformations. SSBKK, Kale's multiple different stages, Trunks' new form, etc.

If anything my only criticism is God and Sign being thrown away without getting much mileage out of those forms as the strongest form. In all fairness, God is used very frequently in the manga and it's still too soon to see if Sign was dropped entirely, but I would have liked Toriyama to have held onto Blue until perhaps the FT arc and to Sign until this arc. Actually, Sign does seem to be rather superfluous as a form, but that would be the only one.

[precita]

Let's put it this way, over the entire span of DBZ we only had 3 Super Saiyan forms, and Super Saiyan 2 was just a powered up version of the first one.

Since Super started we've had:

Super Saiyan God
Super Saiyan Blue
Ultra Instinct
Ultra Instinct Silver hair
Vegeta Super Saiyan Blue evolved
Vegeta God of Destruction

[Yuji]

Let's put it this way, over the entire span of DBZ we only had 3 Super Saiyan forms, and Super Saiyan 2 was just a powered up version of the first one.

Since Super started we've had:

Super Saiyan God
Super Saiyan Blue
Ultra Instinct
Ultra Instinct Silver hair
Vegeta Super Saiyan Blue evolved
Vegeta God of Destruction

In Dragon Ball Z, we had:
Oozaru (counting UI as a SS form is disingenuous, so I will count Oozaru)
Super Saiyan
Super Saiyan Grade 2
Super Saiyan Grade 3
Super Saiyan 2
Super Saiyan 3

That's 6 different forms over the course of 4 arcs, compared to Super's 6 forms over the course of 8 arcs.

[precita]

Well the monkey forms are pretty different since you need a moon and only a few characters use them, and Vegeta never used the monkey transformation again after the Saiyan arc.

Also the other forms of Super Saiyan are still just powered up versions of the same transformation which is why I don't really list them. They're like Super Saiyan 1.5.

[Yuji]

Also the other forms of Super Saiyan are still just powered up versions of the same transformation which is why I don't really list them. They're like Super Saiyan 1.5.

This is an inconsistent standard. Blue Evolved is just Blue 1.5, and Sign is just Ultra Instinct 0.5. Furthermore, what's your point? Every Super Saiyan form outside of God is just building on Super Saiyan. You might as well claim SS2 and SS3 don't count because they're powered up versions of Super Saiyan as well.

[precita]

No the others are visually distinctive. We have God and Blue which is red hair and blue hair respectively, and two forms of Ultra Instinct where Goku now gets silver hair. Visually distinct transformations are marketed to sell toys and videogames and are a big deal.

Super Saiyan 1 was pushed to different extremes before Super Saiyan 2 but they're all just extended versions of the same transformation. The others are completely different things.

[Yuji]

No the others are visually distinctive. We have God and Blue which is red hair and blue hair respectively, and two forms of Ultra Instinct where Goku now gets silver hair. Visually distinct transformations are marketed to sell toys and videogames and are a big deal.

And Grade 2 and 3 have different, spikier hair and a more muscular build. They are treated within the story the same as Blue's evolution or Sign, steps to master their respective forms. Merchandise conjecture is irrelevant here.

Super Saiyan 1 was pushed to different extremes before Super Saiyan 2 but they're all just extended versions of the same transformation. The others are completely different things.

I don't understand why opening up new avenues of power for the characters instead of having them rely solely on their Super Saiyan genetics is a bad thing. Furthermore, this also has nothing to do with the fact that Super, arc-by-arc basis, has less transformations than Z.

[precita]

It's just Super Saiyan with more muscles. It's not a transformation till the hair looks drastically different or changes color.

[pepd]

It's just Super Saiyan with more muscles. It's not a transformation till the hair looks drastically different or changes color.

Sure, but then SSB is just SS (on SSG), not a new transformation. I see it as just an stressed SS, but the massive muscles are as visual change as a hair recolor.

[fadeddreams5]

The franchise jumped the shark by the Buu saga by making SSJ1 a joke kids can learn and making SSJ2 a form accessible to any saiyan not named Gohan. Don't get me started on SSJ3, Ultimate Gohan, and fusions.

At the very least, most of those forms were associated in some way to the saiyan lore. SS1, SSJ2, SSJ3 were part of the same chain of transformations. SSJ4 wasn't, but it made sense within the context of the series. All these new transformations are literally being pulled out of a writer's ass. SSJG - a form attained by a pure-hearted saiyan after a circle jerk. SSJ Rage - wtf is this sh*t? Ultra Instinct - The appearance is really cool, but... this is supposed to be a technique, not a transformation. Missing eyebrows Vegeta - Again, god of destruction powers should be techniques/abilities, not transformations...

[Thanos]

I think the thing that annoys me is the thing with Saiyans is that they are special in the universe seemingly for no discernable reason. Supposedly they're dumb brute apes that are easily ruled, but some have their own god transformations, including a ritual that unlocks a special transformation that changes your boot laces just because.

It's fine if main characters have characteristics that make them special, but at least explain it and have it make sense. It's like, Saiyans are over-the-top special in this universe... why? Because Goku is one?

[Sikat]

Ultra Instinct and Destruction are largely just techniques.

[JulieYBM]

Capitalism requires the series constantly introduce new sellable elements to make the capitalists more profits. Transformations are an easy way to sell new merchandise to consolidate the market share for the capitalists that own the exclusivity rights.

I'm honestly legitimately surprised that we don't have more transformations at this point. Blue being the main form for five fucking years--longer than any other form--really is a miracle. Somebody had to have had the power to restrain those capitalist executive fucks from coming up with more forms, it's the only explanation.

Anyway, I like transformations but I also like keeping things simple. One transformation per battle gives the battles better structure. I prefer to do strategies and tactics, like Tomioka Atsuhiro writes in his battles.

[Anonymous Friend]

The series has always had that Tim Taylor-MOAR POWA problem. But that's mostly tied into the various saiyan transformations in Z. DB just had someone go through some special training and gains some higher levels of power.

Z, and then GT, and now Super is just given them more transformations, which is more exciting. I like how most anime moved away from that and just gives people new techinuques and wierd powers.

[WittyUsername]

Ultra Instinct and Destruction are largely just techniques.

They’re techniques and transformations.

[Marz]

- This is the first time the DBS manga introduces a new transformation that has never appeared in any other media.

- The manga isn't nearly as bloated in terms of amounts of transformations as the anime.

- This is the first time in 5 years that Vegeta has achieved a transformation that is unrelated to Super Saiyan Blue (which in the manga was the main transformation for several sagas, more than any other form in DBZ)

- It's finally a form with some build up or that resonates with his character, just like Ultra Instinct was for Goku. But of course, it's DBS that became "too reliant on transformations" when DBZ ditched its new forms in favor of new ones in the blink of an eye with every new story

[Sikat]

Ultra Instinct and Destruction are largely just techniques.

They’re techniques and transformations.

Largely techniques. Goku/Vegeta (and everybody else) can use Ultra Instinct/Destruction no matter their forms.

[emperior]

Dragon Ball relies on transformations to visually convey an increase in power, and while I think sometimes it’s not necessary, it is still something that works. For example, we immediately know that Vegeta has now gotten stronger through the visuals. Would it really work as well if they just told us: oh, now Vegeta is using Destruction ki or something similar? I don’t know. It could, but it could also feel less impactful. Transformations help in this way.