Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Marz » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:41 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 12:23 am Something is telling me you arent new to this forum after all... did you lurk before joining?
I followed this forum for some time before joining but never bothered to create an account. But I only saw a handful of discussions until some threads caught my attention

But I'm mostly referring to the Chapter 74 leaks this month and the discussions surrounding it

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by ABED » Thu Jul 22, 2021 6:48 am

What's the issue here? Is it the design you have a big issue with? I haven't read the story but it sounds interesting from what I'm reading about it. Instead of Vegeta following Goku's coattails and trying to unlock UI on his own, he finds his own way to reach another level of strength and unlocks a GoD transformation. Am I missing something?
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by emperior » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:32 am

Come on, it’s not that bad. It’s a Toyotaro design for sure, but it must have been approved by Toriyama.

I personally like it and can’t think how they could have designed it differently while still looking menacing, to invoke a God of Destruction feeling, and work in black and white.

It’s not like Toyotaro gave Vegeta horns or some over designed shit like that.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by NeflyteMasato » Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:12 pm

I thought the chapter was really good, and Vegeta’s new form suits him. It makes me wonder though, did anyone complain when Goku went Ōzaru for the first time? How about Super Saiyan 3? Both of those have no eyebrows and are definitely far removed from the original character design, but are considered great…
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Grimlock » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:19 pm

NeflyteMasato wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:12 pmdid anyone complain when Goku went Ōzaru for the first time?
At that time or in the first time reading/watching it?

If it's the former: I wasn't even born yet.

If it's the latter: a kid who can turn into a giant ape instead of werewolf at the sight of full moon. I was never really a big fan of werewolves, but it's not like I dislike it either. So no complaints from me, I'm indifferent to this whole concept.
NeflyteMasato wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:12 pmHow about Super Saiyan 3?
If it's the former: Same.

If it's the latter: Yes. Super Saiyan 3 has always been an ugly and unnecessary transformation. Should have stopped at Super Saiyan 2.
NeflyteMasato wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 9:12 pmbut are considered great…
Not by me.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by NeflyteMasato » Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 pm

It sounds to me like your complaints lie mainly with transformation aesthetic. I guess it’s a case of to each their own, there’s really no right or wrong opinion.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Cipher » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:10 pm

Noble of you to wait for a few panels of a transformation with a design you didn’t like instead of being done in by any writing or overall story direction decisions.

We shall remember your insight, critique and enthusiasm for this silly series, and be lost on all fronts without you. Today we know a void that cannot be filled.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by DiscountDabi » Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:52 pm

Cipher wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:10 pm Noble of you to wait for a few panels of a transformation with a design you didn’t like instead of being done in by any writing or overall story direction decisions.

We shall remember your insight, critique and enthusiasm for this silly series, and be lost on all fronts without you. Today we know a void that cannot be filled.
I gotta agree with this take. I don't think that I could ever stop enjoying something based on how one single thing is designed. I might dislike it, but for it to be the catalist for me to stop enjoying the work as a whole. Would never happen.

But thats just me, Everyone is awared their Opinions. I can't judge you for that, and I won't.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Peach » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:28 am

Dragon Ball AF is a good analogy. That's exactly what this stupid transformation is. AF bullcrap.

I think I would have preferred an insanely powerful Super Saiyan 3 or some shit to this. At least it wouldn't be a tacky blue or purple color.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by pepd » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:56 am

DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:52 pm I gotta agree with this take. I don't think that I could ever stop enjoying something based on how one single thing is designed. I might dislike it, but for it to be the catalist for me to stop enjoying the work as a whole. Would never happen.

But thats just me, Everyone is awared their Opinions. I can't judge you for that, and I won't.
TBH something has to be the last drop. The mention of "the legendary saiyajin" referring to Kale was, for example, what made me first think "Ok. This didn't really happen", and change my perspective of the manga to retroactively say the same of a few other things that I was reluctant about directly rejecting.
Last edited by pepd on Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Jack Bz » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:03 am

Hey, a huuuge part of Dragon Ball's appeal to me and other people is its visuals and character designs, it may even be the number 1 thing! I'm about as disappointed in Vegeta's new transformation as I still am with Moro abandoning his more unique design to have Cell's face, but this stings more because Moro was temporary and this could be Vegeta's main transformation for years (maybe for the rest of Super!)

It might be the straw that broke the camel's back for me if I was already displeased with the manga's direction. Luckily I'm generally a pretty big fan, and the Granolah arc has some of my favourite things from Super so far. It's funny how the manga's ultra instinct ticks all the boxes I enjoy while Vegeta's new form ticks most of the boxes/concepts of my worst fears, and they're assumedly gonna be taking up a lot of panel space together :lol:

Super saiyan god as being the original godly Beerus-inspired transformation just works so much better for me, but the ship sailed on that years ago sadly...

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Cure Dragon 255 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:09 am

Cipher wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:10 pm Noble of you to wait for a few panels of a transformation with a design you didn’t like instead of being done in by any writing or overall story direction decisions.

We shall remember your insight, critique and enthusiasm for this silly series, and be lost on all fronts without you. Today we know a void that cannot be filled.
I know I am an hypocrite for saying this, especially as this post DID make me giggle, but this sort of mean spirited mockery of the Topic Creator is dissapointing to see.
Marz wrote: Wed Jul 21, 2021 11:27 pm "Well, the chapter was good, the story was good and so were the fights. But a new transformation, in Dragon Ball? And one that's ugly? This is where we draw the line!!! Jump the Shark moment!!"

This forum is so over-dramatic that it's not even funny.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Cipher » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:35 am

Cure Dragon 255 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:09 am I know I am an hypocrite for saying this, especially as this post DID make me giggle, but this sort of mean spirited mockery of the Topic Creator is dissapointing to see.
In this case the more mature action on my end would definitely have been to simply ignore the thread, and it’s one I would have taken had the focus been anything other than the aesthetics of a new transformation.

So, guilty, basically.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Grimlock » Fri Jul 23, 2021 1:47 am

NeflyteMasato wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 pm It sounds to me like your complaints lie mainly with transformation aesthetic.
Seems to be. I even enjoy Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan's and Super Saiyan Rosé's concepts. On paper they seem really cool ideas. But when to get to the visuals... When you get to actually see them... :sick:

Maybe I can live with Super Saiyan Rosé if it continues to be exclusive to Goku Black. I think the form clashes well with his designs, maybe because it's the only bright color in the overall design, so to speak (and I've grown to like it just a little bit thanks to Super Saiyan Rosé 2). But for the rest of the recolors... Absolutely not. If only Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan was white... It's the only color I'd pick for a new Super Saiyan form.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Trouser » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:55 am

Well, this form looks like shit that came out from '90s AF with all bunch of stupid recolored images. Caveman Vegeta... Super for the most part is bad and boring to me. Goku is an idiot and Vegeta regressed to his Cell Arc at first (luckily he recovered later but Goku is still retarded). Super had good ideas but bad execution (GT much?). Hakaishin Pawa is a great concept. But design wise... :sick:

I'm (and probably most of the fandom) only considering it "canon" (as if one ever exsited...) because of Toriyama's involvment (which I think is even smaller than before). I don't believe Toyotarou is a right fit to handle the franchise afterwards. At first I though he could do it, but after so many slips I don't believe in him.
Super is "a big player" only because Toriyama is still there. When he retires again, no one will be accepting Toyotarou work as "canon" and it'll become another Super Dragon Ball Heroes.

So, in other words, I'm still sticking with the franchise that I grew up with and love (except Super) but I... I just don't care about the new stuff. I can't be invested because it gives me no reason (on the contrary, it gives me reasons to abandon it but I'm still checking it out from boredom, not excitement). If I see something stupid and terrible, I'm not going to pretend it doesn't exist and I'll be vocal about it, because that's the purpose of forums like Kanzenshuu, to discuss and express opinions.

But I kind of get you. I'm not happy either that my favourite franchise is being destroyed piece by piece.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by TrunksTrevelyan0064 » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:44 am

Trouser wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:55 am I'm not happy either that my favourite franchise is being destroyed piece by piece.
It's not being destroyed. The parts of Dragon Ball that you like will always be there for you to return to whenever you feel like it. Personally, no matter what new DB material comes out, it has no impact on my enjoyment of the original manga and its anime adaptation. Because whether it's considered "canon" or not, it is still decades removed from the original run. An afterthought. Bonus stuff. DLC. If you want it, it's there for you to enjoy. If you don't want it, you can easily ignore it and stick to the parts of DB that you do enjoy.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by PurestEvil » Fri Jul 23, 2021 5:04 am

TrunksTrevelyan0064 wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:44 am
Trouser wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:55 am I'm not happy either that my favourite franchise is being destroyed piece by piece.
It's not being destroyed. The parts of Dragon Ball that you like will always be there for you to return to whenever you feel like it. Personally, no matter what new DB material comes out, it has no impact on my enjoyment of the original manga and its anime adaptation. Because whether it's considered "canon" or not, it is still decades removed from the original run. An afterthought. Bonus stuff. DLC. If you want it, it's there for you to enjoy. If you don't want it, you can easily ignore it and stick to the parts of DB that you do enjoy.
This is the correct take. Obviously, we all know there is rubbish in DBS' writing, but if it is affecting the way you enjoy the franchise, then why not just give it up and stick to the OG story?
Not saying Aim's reason for quitting is logical, but it may give someone a better piece of mind.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by TheSaiyanGod » Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:22 am

Reading this thread made me realize that maybe I really should take a break from this forum, especially in the infamous periods of each month, Jesus. It's been quite some time now that things here have managed to dampen my enjoyment tremendously on whatever the subject is, and it's usually not through the fairest and most impartial criticism in the world. It's a mix of bitterness and sometimes bad faith. Especially when there's something (talking about the subject of the thread) that's praised in most places and you're excited to be able to discuss it in other places and then...bam.

Probably there's a healthier use of my free time than scratching my head with constant (and sometimes unnecessary) negativity

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Koitsukai » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:27 am

Well, let's be real, we are talking about an unfinished drawing. I know it's a b&w manga bla bla, but until we know what color this form will have, can we really say this fucking sucks beyond repair?

I didn't like this form either, it looks weird, but I just recently saw a take of it with black hair with some red-ish highlights, yellow eyes and the flames from SSG aura... and I loved it. A mix between the saiyan god power and the ferocity of the saiyans, with a nod to Broly's eyes. Thematically, it would make sense to have that pure saiyapawa from within + the red color they get due to their god ki form.

I'd prefer it over the purple form everybody thinks we'll get, based solely on Toppo's god mode and Beerus.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by precita » Fri Jul 23, 2021 10:52 am

The problem is Super has done things that feel like fanfiction from the early 2000's, when everyone was trying to continue the story either before or after GT. Nothing is as truly bad as Super Saiyan 5 or other designs from that era, but we're getting there with truly ridiculous transformations.

I honestly feel like for all the criticisms the Boo saga got before Super existed due to the powers ups back then, Super dials that up to 11 with even more extremes that would have made the series a laughing stock if this happened back in the 90's right after 1995.

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