Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by capsulecorp » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:22 am

Yeah, this new form is ugly, but I don't think its much uglier than, say, SSJ3 or the notoriously hideous SSJ4. I also have a suspicion that, like SSJ3, this form will turn out to be flawed or obsolete and we won't see much of it in the future (if there even is much more DBS in our future).

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by EGonzo » Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:31 am

I've always had a problem with the manga. While I appreciate some things from it (it's technical about the transformations and attacks for the most part, giving them clear limitations, and I'm a sucker for form cycling) it really lacks the spectacle the original and the Super anime have, and always starts with a strong concept oy to quickly drop it, be it character development or storyline.

By the end of the Moro arc (which I find the most embarrassing arc in DB) I switched my thinking and started seeing it the way I see Heroes, as some AU story featuring FB characters, and I've been enjoying it more. I still think it's incredibly stupid, but it's harmless DB content.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by theherodjl » Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:33 pm

Is anyone ever truly done with DB? Me personally, i can never get enough of it even if the quality might be on the decline or the story attempts to journey into newfound territory.
At least it's not boring like the phucking Star Wars sequels. I haven't even seen Rise of Skywalker but I honestly don't care to with how little interest I had after watching The Last Jedi.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Trouser » Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:44 pm

EGonzo wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:31 am By the end of the Moro arc (which I find the most embarrassing arc in DB) I switched my thinking and started seeing it the way I see Heroes, as some AU story featuring FB characters, and I've been enjoying it more. I still think it's incredibly stupid, but it's harmless DB content.
Well, I guess this is the only way.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by precita » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 pm

theherodjl wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:33 pm Is anyone ever truly done with DB? Me personally, i can never get enough of it even if the quality might be on the decline or the story attempts to journey into newfound territory.
At least it's not boring like the phucking Star Wars sequels. I haven't even seen Rise of Skywalker but I honestly don't care to with how little interest I had after watching The Last Jedi.
Some see Super as the same thing as the Star Wars sequels, or modern Simpsons, or Legend of Korra, or modern Star Trek, or any series that tried to continue an old popular series.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by theherodjl » Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:48 pm

precita wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 3:01 pmSome see Super as the same thing as the Star Wars sequels, or modern Simpsons, or Legend of Korra, or modern Star Trek, or any series that tried to continue an old popular series.
At least DB still has it's creator giving creative input and preventing it from deviating towards full-blown mediocrity like the franchises that you listed. Toriyama might be a miserable, old bastard but he does inspect and sign off on the work with enough care for the product to still be a success and remain close enough to his vision. If Toyotaro took over completely, the manga would probably look more akin to a comic version of SDBH...and I'd really rather not wait a month at a time to read such bullshit.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Grimlock » Fri Jul 23, 2021 4:10 pm

Legend of Korra also has its creators on board, and it is, by a large margin, better than Dragon Ball Super even if it's "mediocre" (it isn't).

Also, pretty sure modern Dragon Ball has already reached "SDBH levels of bullshit". So what would be the difference if Toyotaro takes over or not?
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Aim » Sat Jul 24, 2021 6:59 am

pepd wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:56 am
DiscountDabi wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 11:52 pm I gotta agree with this take. I don't think that I could ever stop enjoying something based on how one single thing is designed. I might dislike it, but for it to be the catalist for me to stop enjoying the work as a whole. Would never happen.

But thats just me, Everyone is awared their Opinions. I can't judge you for that, and I won't.
TBH something has to be the last drop. The mention of "the legendary saiyajin" referring to Kale was, for example, what made me first think "Ok. This didn't really happen", and change my perspective of the manga to retroactively say the same of a few other things that I was reluctant about directly rejecting.
Well yeah, it’s just one fuck up after another, Toyotaro does great then he screws it up. I’ve just been getting there slowly but surely, some people don’t seem to have to have the thinking capacity to see that, despite being intelligent enough to be a translator.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Aim » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:04 am

NeflyteMasato wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:34 pm It sounds to me like your complaints lie mainly with transformation aesthetic. I guess it’s a case of to each their own, there’s really no right or wrong opinion.
It’s what mainly put me off, and this whole idea it needs to be some kind of “god of destruction” transformation like in the anime, it kind of felt un-Toriyama like, and just something Toyotaro would do. I’ve had major problems with Toyotaro and I don’t think he’s a very good story teller, the Moro arc had good potential but this man improves at a snails pace and takes two steps back after moving forward. Toriyama even gave him advice and it took him a while to take it, not sure if that’s intentional or not.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Aim » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:07 am

theherodjl wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 12:33 pm Is anyone ever truly done with DB? Me personally, i can never get enough of it even if the quality might be on the decline or the story attempts to journey into newfound territory.
At least it's not boring like the phucking Star Wars sequels. I haven't even seen Rise of Skywalker but I honestly don't care to with how little interest I had after watching The Last Jedi.
I’m more tempted to write a script trying to emulate what Toriyama might have been going through, other than that the series has been weighing on me for a while and I’ve started to become fed up over the last couple years or so.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Aim » Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:18 am

TheSaiyanGod wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:22 am Reading this thread made me realize that maybe I really should take a break from this forum, especially in the infamous periods of each month, Jesus. It's been quite some time now that things here have managed to dampen my enjoyment tremendously on whatever the subject is, and it's usually not through the fairest and most impartial criticism in the world. It's a mix of bitterness and sometimes bad faith. Especially when there's something (talking about the subject of the thread) that's praised in most places and you're excited to be able to discuss it in other places and then...bam.

Probably there's a healthier use of my free time than scratching my head with constant (and sometimes unnecessary) negativity
If hearing my disappointment and gradual journey towards ditching Super as a whole has ruined your day, I’m not sure what to say other than you probably shouldn’t be on any forums for that matter.

I feel like this is a constant trend with Dragon Ball fans, great content is getting harder to come by so they leach onto the positives, with me it’s more so adding everything up. Toyotaro has just been going in circles over the last couple years and I’ve been getting more and more tired, to the point where the enjoyment isn’t there anymore because even when everything seems to be going smoothly, the story takes a turn and we end up in AF territory. Things go smoothly and we end up with bullshit like Goku giving Moro a Senzu bean, things go smoothly and bam, Cell is back. God damn some people on this forum have really been touched by my thread, which at this point I don’t really know how to respond, I’m going through enough shit already to be aggressively arguing with people over Toyotaro’s choices.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Magnificent Ponta » Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:26 am

Aim wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:18 amIf hearing my disappointment and gradual journey towards ditching Super as a whole has ruined your day, I’m not sure what to say other than you probably shouldn’t be on any forums for that matter. (...)

God damn some people on this forum have really been touched by my thread, which at this point I don’t really know how to respond, I’m going through enough shit already to be aggressively arguing with people over Toyotaro’s choices.
Well, you were hardly obliged to give out your opinion to the world in the first place, but you did. And others reading it aren't obliged to agree with it on any level, so several of them (predictably enough) didn't. In turn, you're not obliged to be fine with that reaction, either. But one wonders what the 'discussion' was supposed to do otherwise.

That's the problem with performative fan negativity - it damages the quality of discourse generally by making it a reductive exchange of grievances, and just seems to wear everybody down. What's the point of it? I genuinely can't fathom what benefit this topic was supposed to convey. What were you hoping for?

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Nosferatu93 » Sat Jul 24, 2021 9:43 am

Shit is dead since super. Its a milkmachine nothing more. End Of Z is where it really ended. Its like the new star wars movies the new trilogy is just as bad as super in making everything before it well like it never happened.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by EGonzo » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:01 am

Trouser wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 2:44 pm
EGonzo wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 11:31 am By the end of the Moro arc (which I find the most embarrassing arc in DB) I switched my thinking and started seeing it the way I see Heroes, as some AU story featuring FB characters, and I've been enjoying it more. I still think it's incredibly stupid, but it's harmless DB content.
Well, I guess this is the only way.
It's the best way to enjoy the manga without worrying about its many many flaws. I went from actively hating it to having fun most of the time

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Kinokima » Sat Jul 24, 2021 10:32 am

It’s funny I thought the character writing for Vegeta in this chapter was amazing. It was probably the best fight Vegeta has had in a long time (maybe forever). It was so good I am now scared about being let down next chapter.

As for the transformation it’s ugly as sin to me personally but I love Vegeta even if he is ugly. The character writing is more important to me.

Also for the transformation being a God of Destruction transformation we don’t know that yet. Who is to say he isn’t transforming because he is taping into the technique as a Saiyan. Saiyans transform it’s just kind of their thing.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Jack Bz » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:18 pm

I will never understand the collective backlash after Goku gave Moro a senzu. Especially with the fact that it was inconsequential and in character with his past actions. The Moro arc has a lot of issues but I can't rationalise anyone pointing to that scene as some sort of stand out jumped the shark moment.

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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by Grimlock » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:31 pm

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:18 pmEspecially with the fact that it was inconsequential and in character with his past actions.
It's in character, Goku is a Saiyan and he wants to fight his opponents while they are in their max power, sure. The problem is in what you said last.

Goku should've known better than to give a senzu to an enemy at this point, that nearly cost everything in the "past action". Making the same mistake you made years ago makes it clear that there wasn't any progression as a character in general.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by theherodjl » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:38 pm

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:18 pm I will never understand the collective backlash after Goku gave Moro a senzu. Especially with the fact that it was inconsequential and in character with his past actions. The Moro arc has a lot of issues but I can't rationalise anyone pointing to that scene as some sort of stand out jumped the shark moment.
It's because defeating Moro was the point of the entire arc and Goku gave Moro yet another chance to succeed when he could've been finished off at least a few times over by that point. It might have been an in-character act for Goku but it was egregiously bad strategy on his part, even more so than with Cell. Had it not been for the aid from Merus, Whis, Boo(Dai Kaioshin), Oob, and even Jaco to an extent, Moro would have been the victor and it would have been Goku's fault.
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by ABED » Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:59 pm

Grimlock wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:31 pm
Jack Bz wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:18 pmEspecially with the fact that it was inconsequential and in character with his past actions.
It's in character, Goku is a Saiyan and he wants to fight his opponents while they are in their max power, sure. The problem is in what you said last.

Goku should've known better than to give a senzu to an enemy at this point, that nearly cost everything in the "past action". Making the same mistake you made years ago makes it clear that there wasn't any progression as a character in general.
why would he have to when he's achieved his goals? Why grow when he doesn't lose anything as a result of his poor decisions?
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Re: Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Jul 24, 2021 3:36 pm

Jack Bz wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:18 pm I will never understand the collective backlash after Goku gave Moro a senzu. Especially with the fact that it was inconsequential and in character with his past actions. The Moro arc has a lot of issues but I can't rationalise anyone pointing to that scene as some sort of stand out jumped the shark moment.
It’s just a frustrating and cheap way to extend the conflict.

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