Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204

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Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 12:54 pm

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Hello, ladies, gentlemen, and everyone between and beyond, and welcome to week 82 of the first Dragon Ball rewatch of the decade.
We're doing five episodes a week, and we'll be watching every single episode of Dragon Ball, Dragon Ball Z, and Dragon Ball GT. All 508 episodes. Plus the TV specials and the movies.
I encourage you all to watch in Japanese with subtitles, especially if you have never done so before, but watch along in whichever way brings you the most joy.

Here we are! The beginning of the Boo arc. Sort of. Really, this is one of the most fun diversions from any kind of main storyline in all of Dragon Ball, if you ask me. So, sit back and enjoy Son Gohan's Day Off.

Previous thread: Week 81 (DBZ 195-199)
Next thread: Week 83 (DBZ 205-209)

Anyway, without further ado...

Episode 353 - 7 Years Since That Event! Starting Today, I’m a High Schooler (DBZ episode 200)
Dub title: Gohan Goes to High School
Originally aired 8th of September 1993

Kai equivalent: Episode 99 - 7 Years Since That Event! Starting Today, Gohan’s a High Schooler
Written by: Takao Koyama
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Tadayoshi Yamamuro


The years have passed since the battle with Cell, and Gohan, now a high school student, begins commuting to a high school in the city. But he comes across a bank robbery in the city, and takes care of the robbers after becoming Super Saiyan. His Super Saiyan form becomes known as the “Golden-Haired Warrior” and rumors spread. Attending school, Gohan becomes classmates with Mister Satan’s daughter, Videl. Gohan tries to be inconspicuous in order to hide his true identity, but he stands out in gym class, and instead becomes the center of attention.

Anime-only/filler content: The scene of Mr. Satan at his gym, an extra scene of Chichi talking to Gohan.

Episode 354 - The Champion and Lover of Justice — The Great Saiyaman Appears (DBZ episode 201)
Dub title: I am Saiyaman
Originally aired 15th of September 1993

International Kai equivalent: Episode 99 - 7 Years Since That Event! Starting Today, Gohan’s a High Schooler and episode 100 - A New Hero, Great Saiyaman, is Born!
Japanese Kai equivalent: Episode 99 - 7 Years Since That Event! Starting Today, Gohan’s a High Schooler and episode 100 - Found Out! The New Hero is Son Gohan

Written by: Hiroshi Toda
Episode director: Kazuhito Kikuchi
Animation supervisor: Keisuke Masunaga


Gohan consults Bulma on how to hide his identity. Bulma creates a watch-shaped transformation item to conceal Gohan’s identity. The next day, there is a bus hijacking, and Videl goes into action. Gohan follows her after transforming. Videl splendidly defeats the criminals, but the bus falls off a cliff. However, Gohan saves them in the knick of time. Calling himself the “Great Saiyaman”, Gohan makes a dashing exit.

Anime-only/filler content: Gohan and Videl saving the day (but not them leaving to go save the day, that still happened in the manga, but the scene of them saving the day in the manga was used in another episode).

Episode 355 - Gohan’s Confusing First Date?! (DBZ episode 202)
Dub title: Gohan's First Date
Originally aired 29th of September 1993

International Kai equivalent: Some scenes incorporated into episode 101 - Videl's Crisis? Gohan's Urgent Call-out!
Japanese Kai equivalent: Some scenes incorporated into episode 100 - Found Out! The New Hero is Son Gohan

Written by: Satoru Akahori
Episode director: Daisuke Nishio
Animation supervisor: Yūji Hakamada


As he’s about to be late for class, Gohan goes to school in his Great Saiyaman costume, but runs into a girl called Angela on the rooftop. Thinking that she has seen his identity, Gohan ends up having to go out on a date with her to protect his secret. But a fire breaks out during their date, and Gohan becomes the Great Saiyaman and helps Videl put out the fire. Ultimately, it turned out that what Angela had seen was his baby bear underwear.

Anime-only/filler content: Entirely filler.

Episode 356 - Gohan, Get Moving Quick! Rescue Videl!! (DBZ episode 203)
Dub title: Rescue Videl
Originally aired 20th of October 1993

International Kai equivalent: Episode 101 - Videl's Crisis? Gohan's Urgent Call-out!
Japanese Kai equivalent: None

Written by: Yoshiyuki Suga
Episode director: Mitsuo Hashimoto
Animation supervisor: Masayuki Uchiyama


In order to learn the Great Saiyaman’s identity, Videl persistently follows after him. During this time, a group of evildoers called the Red Shark Gang rampage through the city. Videl rushes to the scene and confronts their boss, but Gohan can’t sneak out of class. But as Gohan taps his foot in irritation, it causes an earthquake. After using the confusion to sneak away, Gohan captures the Shark Gang, but Videl defeats the boss all on her own.

Anime-only/filler content: The entire episode!

Episode 357 - A Robbery Case!! The Culprit is Saiyaman?! (DBZ episode 204)
Dub title: Blackmail
Originally aired 27th of October 1993

International Kai equivalent: Episode 102 - A Monster is Taken Away! The Culprit is Great Saiyaman?
Japanese Kai equivalent: Some footage incorporated into episode 100 - Found Out! The New Hero is Son Gohan.

Written by: Yoshiyuki Suga
Episode director: Takahiro Imamura
Animation supervisor: Yukio Ebisawa


Chibi, the child of Toto, the dinosaur who lives close to Gohan’s house, is captured by the Circus Gang and put on display. Gohan becomes the Great Saiyaman and rescues Chibi, but is mistaken for a thief, and ends up fighting Videl. However, Chibi’s parents appear, and the city is sent into turmoil at the arrival of these dinosaur. Gohan takes Chibi back with Videl’s help, and the Toto family returns to the mountains. But Videl has finally learned Gohan’s identity.

Anime-only/filler content: The entire episode, except for Videl outing Gohan as the Great Saiyaman, except it happens very differently.

-

Interesting trivia:
  • At this point in time in the manga, the adult division begins, Shin introduces himself, the fighters draw their numbers, Kuririn wins his fight and Piccolo forfeits his, and Videl begins her match with Spopovic.
    • Robo and KBABZ debated for a while whether it should be Spopovic or Spopovitch. Kanzenshuu and Simmons use the latter, but KBABZ prefers the former, and since he writes most of the trivia, Robo decided to leave it as Spopovic. Neither are quite sure what the origin of the character's name is, though.
  • The title page for Chapter 421 shows Roshi telling the reader that Dragon Ball isn't over yet. He said the same thing at the end of Chapter 194 at the end of the 23rd Tournament Arc when it seemed like the story was over.
  • The Boo Arc marks two notable shifts regarding the title pages.
    • First, while the previous 420 Chapters used several logos at once, the Boo Arc had a brand new logo that was used for the entire run. This logo would be used for the DVD cover of the 2008 Jump Special, appropriate as it features the Boo cast two years after that arc had ended.
    • Second, while the manga had used story panels on the title page as far back as Chapter 131, the Boo Arc would use it incredibly frequently. Of the 99 title pages in the Boo Arc, 60 would use story panels over bespoke artwork. The Super manga would continue this trend, almost exclusively using story panels for its title pages.
  • For the seven year timeskip and protagonist switch at episode 200, Toei rejigged the main themes and visuals for Dragon Ball Z, introducing the We Gotta Power Intro, the We Were Angels outro, new eyecatches, new recap music, and for the first time since the Saiyan arc began in 1989, a new music package composed just for the TV anime, whereas all previous music packages for Z since episode 1 had simply been the music Kikuchi composed for the movies.
  • We Gotta Power Trivia:
    • The opening shot of Gohan, Goten and Trunks on Shen Long's head is quite prophetic, as it's how Goku's story ends in Dragon Ball GT.
    • The shot of Gohan's younger selves reflected in his Saiyaman shades is reminiscent of the title page for Chapter 404, swapping out Saiyan Arc Gohan for Cell Arc Gohan.
    • The opening shot is also one of the shots that changed slightly between their debut in Z episode 200 and their slight revision in Z episode 202; the clouds that cover the screen and open out are not present in the episode 200/201 version. Just like Z episode 1 before it, the new OP animation introduced in episode 200 was almost a "beta version", which can sadly only be seen on Japanese TV broadcasts these days; the Dragon Boxes and all other home releases of Z episodes 200 and 201 use the later version.
    • The shot of Gohan pedaling the Capsule Corp bike to school is taken from the artwork for Tankobon #34, which covers the Goku and Gohan parts of the Cell Games. In the Tankobon however it's Goku pedalling; for We Gotta Power it was switched to Gohan, and the "Dragon Ball" text on the wheels were removed, presumably to make them easier to animate.
    • Chapter 421 marks the first time anyone has ridden Kinto'Un since Goku joined the fray in the Saiyan Arc. Its last occupant is also its latest: Gohan!
    • The shot of Gohan and Videl in the Mr. Satan trike car is taken from the artwork of a fold-out poster included in Shonen Jump's 31st issue of 1993. In the original artwork they drove through a residential area, but for We Gotta Power they're driving along a coastal road, to fit the surfing theme and presumably for quicker animation. Famously this calendar art would also inspire the first half of the Boo Arc's eyecatches. As a reference to Videl's family, the car's racing number is 666.
    • Despite Trunks' initial lack of respect for Goku, in the group shot of We Gotta Power he uses the Kamehameha poses like Goten does. It's possible this is so that the animators could use the same base animation drawings for Goten and Trunks, since they're the same height and each has a very similar gi.
    • The shot of Gohan looking out over a city on top of a spire his with cape flowing in the wind is reminiscent of his idol Piccolo. Gohan of course puts his own... unique spin on it.
    • The end art of the intro is the group shot of all the main fighters made for Chapter 430's title page, which is the Chapter when Goku returns to the world of the living. For We Gotta Power it adds Bulma, Chichi, Videl, Erasa and Shapner. This artwork would be used again for the second half of The Final Chapters' eyecatches, which goes back to the original fighter-only cast.
    • We Gotta Power is notably both spoileriffic yet quickly out-dated. It spoils that Goku returns from Other World, that Goten exists, and that Gohan gets into a relationship with Videl. At the same time it's very rooted in the Saiyaman era, with a strong focus on Gohan's high school days and his Saiyaman alter-ego (which were still in effect when the anime hit this point: the manga was in the 25th Tournament and had only just introduced the elements that would lead to Boo). Much like Cha-La Head Cha-La, Toriyama's writing would swiftly make Toei's OP and ED out of date.
    • Kageyama recorded an English version of We Gotta Power. The lyricist's grasp of English is not very good, and neither is Kageyama's English pronunciation, and it features lines such as "Thing you want that you can't touch, but you know one day you will hold that special feel that make you a man." Between this and The Final Chapters' Fight It Out, the Boo arc has two official English versions of its OP produced in Japan.
  • Related to the above entry about We Gotta Power: There is also an English Kageyama version of Cha-La Head Cha-La. This is actually missed trivia, since we didn't mention it in Week 34. As a token of apology for us missing it the first time, here's a far better English version, using the vocals from the Filipino English dub's cover (sung by Gino Padilla) combined with the Japanese instrumental.
  • The shot in We Were Angels of Vegeta, Kuririn, Piccolo and Yamucha is a rare instance of Vegeta... smiling.
  • And now we get to Dragon Ball Z Kai: The Final Chapters, possibly the most confusing production in all of Dragon Ball.
    • Due to the continued success of the original Dragon Ball Z Kai, international distributors wanted Toei to continue it into the Boo Arc, so Toei made a 69-episode edit of Z's Boo Arc. Sadly, The Final Chapters did not have the same amount of time, care, or budget allotted to it as the original Kai, notably having a poor colour grade, no 4:3 version, cheap, happened-to-be-available synthesiser composer Norihito Sumitomo scoring the series rather than either reusing Kikuchi's music or more carefully selecting a perfectly-fitting composer, and leaving in a very large portion of filler, including many entirely-filler episodes such as the Saiyaman one with the baby dinosaur, or the one where Goku rescues a bird egg after defeating Boo. It also doesn't have any redrawn shots to assist the 16:9 version, which is how the original Kai made that reframing work, even though the quality of the redrawn shots was never quite satisfactory to many fans in either 16:9 or 4:3.
    • At some point during or after the production, Fuji TV needed a replacement for the ratings failure Toriko, Toei's attempt at the next big shonen franchise, and Toei settled on using The Final Chapters, coincidentally the continuation of the show that Toriko had replaced. Initially, the intention was that the Japanese Edit of The Final Chapters would air for only a year, so compared to the International Edit, seven episodes were trimmed out, removing several (but not all) of the filler episodes. However the one-year thing was eventually dropped and the only episode cut after the first fifteen was the pure-filler Episode 165, taking the total number of cut episodes up to eight. A few other changes were made for the Japanese Edit, including a completely new OP song (with altered visuals), several new EDs replacing the original single ED, different music use/placements, moving Goku's wish for everyone to forget about Boo one episode backwards, and recolouring Evil Boo's eyes to red. The home video release of the Japanese edition also makes one further change: the addition of an ugly sharpening filter, similar to the one that creates the uniquely awful look of Funimation's Blu-ray releases of Z.
    • To make things more confusing, the Japanese Edit of The Final Chapters aired FIRST in June 2014, with the original International Edit airing in Korea around the same time. The Final Chapters wouldn't debut in the US until January 2017, well after Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F' (and Super in Japan, which was simulsubbed on Crunchyroll in the US), despite a dub for it being recorded as early as 2014. The reason for this is because NickToons weren't interested like with Kai 1.0: it only happened because Toonami returned and were interested in their flagship anime, but they wanted to start with Kai 1.0 first. Similarly, Super did not air on Toonami until after TFC finished. Despite the existence of the shorter Japanese Edit of TFC however, Funimation either asked for or were specifically given the longer International Edit.
    • The opening of The Final Chapters marks two firsts for the franchise. First, since it started out as an international production, its intro song Fight It Out is the first Dragon Ball OP to be written in English first (granted, not very good English), rather than translated from Japanese by the dubbing company.
    • Second, while the intro visuals themselves are filled with more spoilers than We Gotta Power, it's the first Dragon Ball anime intro to not become outdated during the story it accompanies! The revised Cha-La Head Cha-La intro from the 2008 Jump Special is the only earlier one.
  • In Chapter 421, it's mentioned that Satan City (or "Herculopolis" in the Funi dub and ViZ) was renamed after its most famous resident. It's unknown what name the city had before that.
    • As a name, Herculopolis is a bit of an "Ancient Grome" trope, as Hercules is Roman while "-opolis" is Greek.
  • ViZ also goes through the bother of renaming Gohan's school to "Hercule High" to fit inside the narrator's text box, but doesn't bother renaming it in the wide shots of the school itself. It would have been a pun if it happened in the previous Chapter, 420.
  • Gohan catches all the bullets fired by the crook's machine gun before gently dropping them, a trick not seen in the manga since Roshi did it in front of the Red Ribbon Army when they invaded Kame House. Both opponents have the same reaction, baring their teeth in shock before being knocked out.
  • Videl's name follows the same name pun as her father, being an anagram of "devil".
    • On a similar note, in 2009 the Super Exciting Guide (a spiritual successor to the Daizenshuu) revealed that Mr. Satan's real first name is "Mark". In Japanese this is rendered as "Maaku", which forms the pun by switching the two kanji for Akuma, which means "devil" / "demon". Akuma is most famously associated with the Street Fighter character.
  • Erasa and Shapna's name puns are obvious, being puns on office and school supplies that fit the high school setting they're associated with.
  • Gohan's Golden Warrior reputation is established BEFORE Chapter 421, despite this being Gohan's first day of school. As Gohan later muses, these were from the two times he visited the area to register for Orange Star High.
  • Both of the wide shots of Orange Star High in Chapters 421, 422 and 424 are the same drawing but with different clouds.
  • Apparently Gohan's sports teacher is Freddie Mercury!
  • Chapter 423 is the first time Bulma is seen smoking in the Familiar Timeline, something her Future counterpart also picked up in her older years, and of course is a habit her father is known for as well, unless you're watching the censored dubs.
  • Bulma's Great Saiyaman costume solution is the second watch-based gadget we've seen her make, after the shrinking watch in the Red Ribbon Army arc. This is made more overt in the anime and Full Colors where the buttons on the side to use to device are red and blue, just like the size-changing watch.
  • Gohan's line about speeders is ironic considering he likely violated many air traffic laws flying to school (Chichi notes that Gohan should watch out for airplanes in Chapter 424), and he sped incredibly fast himself just now to get to Satan City.
  • Goten's name is made by swapping out the Japanese word for sky (ku) in Goku's name with the Chinese one (ten). It otherwise has no connection to the original "Sun Wukong" name from Journey to the West.
  • Goten's connection with his father's younger years is established immediately, since Gohan leaves Kinto'Un to him. Presumably Goten has sat on it before and thus knows he can ride it.
  • The name Saiyaman is itself a pun: the jin in "Saiyajin" means "person" (which is where we get Speedy Video's "Saiya-people"), so the name of Gohan's alter-ego simply swaps out the last kanji of his race's name with the English equivalent!
  • There is no Greek philosopher named Diarrheus. The word diarrhea is derived from Greek however, specifically the words "Dia" and "rhein", to mean "flow through". Yum.
  • Gohan's unfamiliarity with Satan City is shown when he doesn't even know where Route 81 is.
  • The Funimation broadcast of Z episode 202 wasn't aired in its originally-planned slot on the 19th of September 2001 due to its depiction of a tall, burning building. It eventually aired two months later.
  • The original Funi dub of episode 202 is also the subject of a dubbing oddity: In the flashback to when Goku and Chichi were children, Goku speaks a line voiced by Ceyli Delgadillo (who had voiced kid Goku beginning in DB movie 2), then a line voiced by Stephanie Nadolny (who had replaced Delgadillo starting with the in-house dub of the original Dragon Ball anime). The 2008 redub replaces Delgadillo's line with one recorded by Nadolny.
  • At the end of Chapter 424, Gohan says he'll reveal his alter-ego's name "in next week's issue" for the Shonen Jump release. For the Tankobon this was changed to "on the next page", however this isn't actually accurate as the next page has artwork of Saiyaman posing to help maintain the page layout from Shonen Jump. Further, Gohan spends one page building up to the reveal, and a second page making silly poses, meaning he takes three pages to reveal the name! The ViZ translation fixes the issue fully by having Gohan say "in the next chapter".
    • As an acknowledgement of the above, at the start of Chapter 425 the crook asks who Saiyaman is a second time, and Saiyaman says he'll reveal it as promised. This was a common tactic to on-board TV viewers when coming back from an ad break.
  • Videl logically assumes that since Saiyaman knows her name, he must be Gohan. However she's forgetting that she's a prolific crime-fighter in Satan City, thus it wouldn't be surprising that someone knows her name already.
  • Gohan lasts 32 pages and less than 24 hours in-universe until he blows his cover. In the Japanese Edit of The Final Chapters, it's less than two episodes!
  • Chapter 425 is never directly adapted in the anime, with all of its scenes being reworked, replaced or cut entirely to make way for filler storylines:
    • In the manga, it happens in the "bugjumper" air vehicle after busting the Route 81 crook, and Videl verbally tricks Gohan on the spot into revealing who he is.
    • In the anime, Gohan saves a falling bus, goes on a date and helps Videl save a fire, helps Videl defeat the Red Shark Gang, and save a dinosaur from the Circus Gang (with Videl's help); the original Route 81 incident never happens. The bugjumper scene happens at the end of the Circus Gang filler episode, but now occurs in the Orange Star High School locker hallways.
  • In Dragon Ball Z, it takes six episodes for the 25th Tenkaichi Budokai to be introduced and redirect the story. In the Japanese Edit of The Final Chapters, it takes two!
Trivia primarily written by KBABZ. Episode summaries, airdates, and titles courtesy of Kanzenshuu's episode guide. Kai International Edit titles courtesy of Funimation.
Last edited by Robo4900 on Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:49 am, edited 2 times in total.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:34 pm

Well the first thing is it’s interesting how much gets rebranded. We get it a brand new opening song and ending song. New eyecatches. For the first time since the Saiyan arc Kikuchi composes new music for the show and not the movies (including new title card music!) and yet…it’s still called Dragon Ball Z. Not sure what they would have called it if they gave it a new name. Dragon Ball 3? Dragon Ball World? Dragon Ball Butoden?

I already mentioned how I feel about Nozawa as Older Gohan. As for the new English voice actors. Kyle Hebert is okay as Gohan but he really does sound like someone’s dad playing a teenager. Justin Cook, was 18 at the time, probably should’ve voiced Gohan but instead he’s the new voice of Dende. Brad Swaile, on the other hand has a great voice and actually sounds like a teenage boy.


Just try to figure out where Chi Chi’s flashback takes place. Goku’s outfit and tail suggest it has to take place before the end of the first arc but when? To give Toei leeway it’s possible Chi Chi is misremembering when they hung out by the apple trees in episode 31?

The dub really doesn’t want anyone to think Goku has a surname I guess? In the Japanese version Videl is able to put two and two together that Goku and Gohan are related because they have the same family name and family names are no longer common in Dragon Ball’s universe. Of course Funimation already gave character last names like making Briefs the family name for Bulma and not just her dad’s name and making Satan a family name and not just a stage name for Mark/Mr.Satan. But for some reason in the dub Videl is just able to find out Goku has a son named Gohan? How? Does the World Martial Arts Tournament committee keep track of this sort of thing? Why is it so hard to just say “The winner of the 23rd Martial Artd Tournament …Goku you and him have the same last name he’s your dad right?”

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:39 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:34 pm I already mentioned how I feel about Nozawa as Older Gohan. As for the new English voice actors. Kyle Hebert is okay as Gohan but he really does sound like someone’s dad playing a teenager. Justin Cook, was 18 at the time, probably should’ve voiced Gohan but instead he’s the new voice of Dende. Brad Swaile, on the other hand has a great voice and actually sounds like a teenage boy.
I agree with your post in general, but here I could not possibly agree more. I can hear no one other than Brad Swaile as the teenage Gohan. Great casting, and I'm sad most Americans have never heard him in the role.
MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 1:34 pm Just try to figure out where Chi Chi’s flashback takes place. Goku’s outfit and tail suggest it has to take place before the end of the first arc but when? To give Toei leeway it’s possible Chi Chi is misremembering when they hung out by the apple trees in episode 31?
I think that's probably the intention.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm

The original Funi dub of episode 202 is also the subject of a dubbing oddity: In the flashback to when Goku and Chichi were children, Goku speaks a line voiced by Ceyli Delgadillo (who had voiced kid Goku beginning in DB movie 2), then a line voiced by Stephanie Nadolny (who had replaced Delgadillo starting with the in-house dub of the original Dragon Ball anime). The 2008 redub replaces Delgadillo's line with one recorded by Nadolny.
I've always found that a bizarre error, and it makes me wonder if Delgadillo had originally done kid Goku's lines in that flashback scene at some point before she departed from FUNi and later on Nadolny went in and redubbed it to be consistent with the OG DB dub though that one part accidentally slipped through. As you say when doing the partial redub for the Orange Bricks they likely caught that and swapped it out with the version Nadolny did.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by KBABZ » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
The original Funi dub of episode 202 is also the subject of a dubbing oddity: In the flashback to when Goku and Chichi were children, Goku speaks a line voiced by Ceyli Delgadillo (who had voiced kid Goku beginning in DB movie 2), then a line voiced by Stephanie Nadolny (who had replaced Delgadillo starting with the in-house dub of the original Dragon Ball anime). The 2008 redub replaces Delgadillo's line with one recorded by Nadolny.
I've always found that a bizarre error, and it makes me wonder if Delgadillo had originally done kid Goku's lines in that flashback scene at some point before she departed from FUNi and later on Nadolny went in and redubbed it to be consistent with the OG DB dub though that one part accidentally slipped through. As you say when doing the partial redub for the Orange Bricks they likely caught that and swapped it out with the version Nadolny did.
I have no idea what the lines are but they could have possibly been cribbed from an older dub project.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:25 pm

KBABZ wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
The original Funi dub of episode 202 is also the subject of a dubbing oddity: In the flashback to when Goku and Chichi were children, Goku speaks a line voiced by Ceyli Delgadillo (who had voiced kid Goku beginning in DB movie 2), then a line voiced by Stephanie Nadolny (who had replaced Delgadillo starting with the in-house dub of the original Dragon Ball anime). The 2008 redub replaces Delgadillo's line with one recorded by Nadolny.
I've always found that a bizarre error, and it makes me wonder if Delgadillo had originally done kid Goku's lines in that flashback scene at some point before she departed from FUNi and later on Nadolny went in and redubbed it to be consistent with the OG DB dub though that one part accidentally slipped through. As you say when doing the partial redub for the Orange Bricks they likely caught that and swapped it out with the version Nadolny did.
I have no idea what the lines are but they could have possibly been cribbed from an older dub project.
It's possible that Delgadillo had recorded those somewhere along the way maybe for that scene, like before she left and kid Goku was eventually recast to Nadolny. Still very weird how it literally goes from her whispery performance (That's how it appeared that she delivered most of her lines as Goku, yet not so much with young Dende in the Freeza and Cell arcs) to Nadolny's just one line after the other.
DB collection related goals as of now:

1.) Find decent priced copy of Dragon Box Z Vol. 4 (Done)

2.) Collect rest of manga

3.) Get rest of Daizenshuu (2-7)

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:51 pm

KBABZ wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
The original Funi dub of episode 202 is also the subject of a dubbing oddity: In the flashback to when Goku and Chichi were children, Goku speaks a line voiced by Ceyli Delgadillo (who had voiced kid Goku beginning in DB movie 2), then a line voiced by Stephanie Nadolny (who had replaced Delgadillo starting with the in-house dub of the original Dragon Ball anime). The 2008 redub replaces Delgadillo's line with one recorded by Nadolny.
I've always found that a bizarre error, and it makes me wonder if Delgadillo had originally done kid Goku's lines in that flashback scene at some point before she departed from FUNi and later on Nadolny went in and redubbed it to be consistent with the OG DB dub though that one part accidentally slipped through. As you say when doing the partial redub for the Orange Bricks they likely caught that and swapped it out with the version Nadolny did.
I have no idea what the lines are but they could have possibly been cribbed from an older dub project.

https://youtu.be/M4zLoeG5a1I it was specific to that episode so it definitely wasn’t from an older dub project.

It looks like Ceyli Delgadillo recorded the lines first then they had Nadolny redub her but the mixing got messed up and Delgadillo’s dialog for the first bit was still in the aired version/original home media release. Then the orange bricks used the correct recording that Nadolny did back in 2001. Given the quality of the remastered dub me thinks the correct version being used was an accident.

I’m guessing these episodes were recorded before they started dubbing the original Dragon Ball (Chi Chi is also done by someone who definitely isn’t Laura Bailey) but it’s weird they had Ceyli dub Goku at all. They’ve been using Nadolny for Goku since at least Roshi’s flashback to the Red Ribbon Army in Double Trouble for Goku .

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:58 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:51 pm
KBABZ wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:20 pm
I've always found that a bizarre error, and it makes me wonder if Delgadillo had originally done kid Goku's lines in that flashback scene at some point before she departed from FUNi and later on Nadolny went in and redubbed it to be consistent with the OG DB dub though that one part accidentally slipped through. As you say when doing the partial redub for the Orange Bricks they likely caught that and swapped it out with the version Nadolny did.
I have no idea what the lines are but they could have possibly been cribbed from an older dub project.

https://youtu.be/M4zLoeG5a1I it was specific to that episode so it definitely wasn’t from an older dub project.

It looks like Ceyli Delgadillo recorded the lines first then they had Nadolny redub her but the mixing got messed up and Delgadillo’s dialog for the first bit was still in the aired version/original home media release. Then the orange bricks used the correct recording that Nadolny did back in 2001. Given the quality of the remastered dub me thinks the correct version being used was an accident.

I’m guessing these episodes were recorded before they started dubbing the original Dragon Ball (Chi Chi is also done by someone who definitely isn’t Laura Bailey) but it’s weird they had Ceyli dub Goku out all. They’ve been using Nadolny for Goku since at least Roshi’s flashback to the Red Ribbon Army in Double Trouble for Goku .
Yeah, it's certainly odd that they apparently decided to have Ceyli do it there when i think they were already in the process of having Nadolny effectively take over the role by that point given she was already doing young Gohan and the OG DB dub was on the horizon.

I heard it was apparently Monika Antonelli (Puar and Chiaotzu's voice up to Kai) that played kid Chi Chi in that flashback. Listening to the clip it does sound like her.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by jjgp1112 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:23 pm

I definitely still remember Ceyli doing Goku in a few King Piccolo flashbacks in the Android saga, though.

Also, now that I'm looking at that clip, I'm almost certain Laura Bailey replaced Chi-Chi's actress on the Orange Bricks.

Another weird trivia thing - Ceyli had also briefly left Funi during the Cell Games recording and that's when Laura Bailey was cast to replace her and recorded all her Cell lines. But then when Ceyli returned, she dubbed all of the Dende lines instead and they shelved Bailey's performance. So for the Orange Bricks, they used Laura Bailey's original lines from 2000
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:50 pm

jjgp1112 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:23 pm I definitely still remember Ceyli doing Goku in a few King Piccolo flashbacks in the Android saga, though.
At least in the one where Kami is explaining his backstory with Piccolo it’s definitely Nadolny

https://youtu.be/t0unyn-JemA
Also, now that I'm looking at that clip, I'm almost certain Laura Bailey replaced Chi-Chi's actress on the Orange Bricks.
I checked and it’s definitely the same not!Laura Bailey actress from before. I don’t think Funimation was bothering with any redubbing at that point.

I mean I guess it could be Bailey? But if it is she’s doing it completely different from how she did it in Dragon Ball
Another weird trivia thing - Ceyli had also briefly left Funi during the Cell Games recording and that's when Laura Bailey was cast to replace her and recorded all her Cell lines. But then when Ceyli returned, she dubbed all of the Dende lines instead and they shelved Bailey's performance. So for the Orange Bricks, they used Laura Bailey's original lines from 2000
Funimation also weirdly credits Ceyli Delgadillo for her performance in the remastered sets for season 5 and 6 even though it’s definitely Laura Bailey’s Dende

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MyVisionity » Mon Jul 26, 2021 7:19 pm

Yeah I definitely remember Ceyli doing Goku in the Cell Saga, but it might be different in the remastered version. I especially remember during the flashbacks with Yamcha up at God's temple being Ceyli, but I think the remastered took out the dialogue.


These episodes are really great. I love the new openings and endings. The new characters are all terrific, especially Gohan's classmates. I wish we could have gotten more with them. And I think it was a wise decision on Toriyama's part to bring back Mister Satan for the new story. He and Videl really help to push the story forward.

I still loathe the Masunaga/Studio Cockpit designs and animation style.

I appreciate the scenes with Bulma smoking a cigarette. Something about it always struck a nice chord with me since I first saw this episode.

The Red Shark Gang episode is one of my favorites. The gangsters were entertaining and I enjoy the fight scenes between Videl and Rock.

I also notice that the returning eyecatch music track seems to have been replaced on the remastered version for some reason.


KBABZ wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 2:21 pm Goten's name is made by swapping out the Japanese word for sky (ku) in Goku's name with the Chinese one (ten). It otherwise has no connection to the original "Sun Wukong" name from Journey to the West.
No, they're two different Kanji with similar meanings. 空/kuu means "emptiness" or "sky". 天/ten refers to God or Heaven. If Goku "perceives the sky(emptiness)", then Goten is a step further by "perceiving the heavens".

Additionally, the dialogue that the teacher is reciting during the English lesson in episode 203 is the lyrics from Rock n' Roll Love Letter by the Bay City Rollers. Apparently it performed well in Japan.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:03 pm

We Gotta Power is notably both spoileriffic yet quickly out-dated. It spoils that Goku returns from Other World, that Goten exists, and that Gohan gets into a relationship with Videl. At the same time it's very rooted in the Saiyaman era, with a strong focus on Gohan's high school days and his Saiyaman alter-ego (which were still in effect when the anime hit this point: the manga was in the 25th Tournament and had only just introduced the elements that would lead to Boo). Much like Cha-La Head Cha-La, Toriyama's writing would swiftly make Toei's OP and ED out of date
It;'s very odd how unlike Head Cha-La where Toei updated the animation thrice between the Saiyan, Freeza and Cell arcs where necessary they didn't bother to do so with We Gotta Power once things move out of the Great Saiyaman material and into the 25th Budokai which really kicks off the Buu portion of the arc proper.

It would've been great if they had tweaked the latter or done another new OP animation, because they just used that one the last 91 episodes and it really only worked with the Gohan in high school/Saiyaman eps.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:04 am

SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:03 pm

It;'s very odd how unlike Head Cha-La where Toei updated the animation thrice between the Saiyan, Freeza and Cell arcs where necessary they didn't bother to do so with We Gotta Power once things move out of the Great Saiyaman material and into the 25th Budokai which really kicks off the Buu portion of the arc proper.

It would've been great if they had tweaked the latter or done another new OP animation, because they just used that one the last 91 episodes and it really only worked with the Gohan in high school/Saiyaman eps.
Well tbf Head Cha La never did update for the Freeza saga. The only difference between the first and second version is Vegeta and Nappa’s silhouettes in front of the volcano being added.

The third Head Cha La updated to reflect Vegeta being “on their side” Trunks being around, Gohan’s older character design and Super Saiyans being a thing. I don’t think there was enough significant changes to justify updating We Gotta Power. Like it doesn’t show Boo but oh well Freeza and Cell weren’t in any openings either.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by SuperSaiyaManZ94 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:21 am

MasenkoHA wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:04 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 10:03 pm

It;'s very odd how unlike Head Cha-La where Toei updated the animation thrice between the Saiyan, Freeza and Cell arcs where necessary they didn't bother to do so with We Gotta Power once things move out of the Great Saiyaman material and into the 25th Budokai which really kicks off the Buu portion of the arc proper.

It would've been great if they had tweaked the latter or done another new OP animation, because they just used that one the last 91 episodes and it really only worked with the Gohan in high school/Saiyaman eps.
Well tbf Head Cha La never did update for the Freeza saga. The only difference between the first and second version is Vegeta and Nappa’s silhouettes in front of the volcano being added.

The third Head Cha La updated to reflect Vegeta being “on their side” Trunks being around, Gohan’s older character design and Super Saiyans being a thing. I don’t think there was enough significant changes to justify updating We Gotta Power. Like it doesn’t show Boo but oh well Freeza and Cell weren’t in any openings either.
That is true, they did change them up slightly to reflect the differences small though they were but really no great overhaul in the openings overall.

It seems with Kai OTOH they did more with the OP to reflect which arc was being covered and updating accordingly, plus this time around Toei actually bothered to show the respective villainous characters.
Last edited by SuperSaiyaManZ94 on Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Majin Buu » Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am

The first of many improvements the anime adaptation makes to the Buu arc: Spending more time with Gohan as he navigates his double life as a high schooler and superhero. The material is amusing, fleshes out the development of Gohan and Videl's friendship, and overall allows the anime to get more mileage out of the Great Saiyaman concept than Toriyama did. I'm jumping the gun here, but the fact that the anime actually calls back to this part of the story after Buu's defeat (and provides a cute little payoff in the process) makes it feel less disconnected from the rest of the arc than it does in the manga.

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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by Robo4900 » Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:53 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:23 pm Another weird trivia thing - Ceyli had also briefly left Funi during the Cell Games recording and that's when Laura Bailey was cast to replace her and recorded all her Cell lines. But then when Ceyli returned, she dubbed all of the Dende lines instead and they shelved Bailey's performance. So for the Orange Bricks, they used Laura Bailey's original lines from 2000
Interesting.

I'll bet the use of Laura Bailey's lines was a mistake, like many of the weird changes in the Orange Brick mix.
MasenkoHA wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 4:50 pm At least in the one where Kami is explaining his backstory with Piccolo it’s definitely Nadolny

https://youtu.be/t0unyn-JemA
This may be an Orange Brick redub.
Majin Buu wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 9:31 am The first of many improvements the anime adaptation makes to the Buu arc: Spending more time with Gohan as he navigates his double life as a high schooler and superhero. The material is amusing, fleshes out the development of Gohan and Videl's friendship, and overall allows the anime to get more mileage out of the Great Saiyaman concept than Toriyama did. I'm jumping the gun here, but the fact that the anime actually calls back to this part of the story after Buu's defeat (and provides a cute little payoff in the process) makes it feel less disconnected from the rest of the arc than it does in the manga.
Yeah.

Honestly, while I do think there is some needless padding in the main Boo arc, I think the anime adaptation in the Great Saiyaman/Boo arcs was a big step up from the Cell arc. Lots of great anime-only material here.
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Re: Dragon Ball Rewatch, Week 82 - DBZ 200-204 (CURRENT WEEK)

Post by MasenkoHA » Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:28 pm

Robo4900 wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:53 am

I'll bet the use of Laura Bailey's lines was a mistake, like many of the weird changes in the Orange Brick mix.
Laura Bailey was the voice for Dende in the Ultimate Uncut dub and redubbed Ceyli’s lines for season 3. Seemed pretty intentional to use her recordings for remastered season 6 to be consistent. I think it was just good fortune they had Bailey’s recording on hands to use as I doubt they would have bothered bringing in Bailey to redub those lines circa 2008 since they pretty much stopped caring about redubbing at that point (even Kyle Hebert’s narration was recorded back in 2004 for the Cell Games singles dvd release)

I suppose it could have been an accident but it was an accident that actually worked out and didn’t have Dende having a completely different voice than what he had in remastered season 2 and 3

This may be an Orange Brick redub.
Eh I checked the original dub audio and it was still Nadolny. Evidently Funimation was just switching back and forth between Delgadillo and Nadolny. Delgadillo voiced Goku for Dragon Ball movie 2 and 3 and that one clip from episode 16 that was dubbed for “The World of Dragon Ball Z” special and that bit where everyone is talking about Goku in Z episode 192. Nadolny voiced Goku for the Red Ribbon and Kami flashbacks. (Maybe because at that time Funimation lost contact with Delgadillo?)

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