Toriyama's Ruthless Vegeta

[nhienphan2808]

Vegeta's ROF and Broly is basically Goku's Cell Games, reduxed.
Toei made him too heroic before Cell Games, so Toriyama got salty and made Goku make the asshole move of giving Cell a senzu.
Toei made Vegeta silly and the "My Bulma" stuff and all the nice man Vegeta moments in Super series, Toriyama "reminds" people that he's still an asshole.

[Polyphase Avatron]

And within the Buu arc, he kills hundreds which is not the actions of a good person.

Good people can do terrible things. It doesn't necessarily make them terrible people. I wouldn't automatically assume that someone is evil because they killed hundreds of people.

If every one of those hundreds of people was evil and deserved it, and the killer had no other option, then it could be true.

But I don't think that applies to random fans in the budokai stadium.

[Brodes]

Good people can do terrible things. It doesn't necessarily make them terrible people. I wouldn't automatically assume that someone is evil because they killed hundreds of people.

If every one of those hundreds of people was evil and deserved it, and the killer had no other option, then it could be true.

But I don't think that applies to random fans in the budokai stadium.

Perhaps being fans of martial arts, they also operate in a different morality and thus knew that there was every chance they could die while watching a fight between warriors? It's cool. It's what happens when you're involved with martial arts.

[jjgp1112]

If every one of those hundreds of people was evil and deserved it, and the killer had no other option, then it could be true.

But I don't think that applies to random fans in the budokai stadium.

Perhaps being fans of martial arts, they also operate in a different morality and thus knew that there was every chance they could die while watching a fight between warriors? It's cool. It's what happens when you're involved with martial arts.

Bruh, all them folks at the 25th tournament were Mr. Satan worshippers who think all that shit was tricks. The tournament was a glorified pro wrestling show by that point.

[MasenkoHA]

If every one of those hundreds of people was evil and deserved it, and the killer had no other option, then it could be true.

But I don't think that applies to random fans in the budokai stadium.

Perhaps being fans of martial arts, they also operate in a different morality and thus knew that there was every chance they could die while watching a fight between warriors? It's cool. It's what happens when you're involved with martial arts.

Bruh, all them folks at the 25th tournament were Mr. Satan worshippers who think all that shit was tricks. The tournament was a glorified pro wrestling show by that point.

Murdering Pro Wrestling fans is valid so Vegeta probably was a hero all along.

[jjgp1112]

Perhaps being fans of martial arts, they also operate in a different morality and thus knew that there was every chance they could die while watching a fight between warriors? It's cool. It's what happens when you're involved with martial arts.

Bruh, all them folks at the 25th tournament were Mr. Satan worshippers who think all that shit was tricks. The tournament was a glorified pro wrestling show by that point.

Murdering Pro Wrestling fans is valid so Vegeta probably was a hero all along.

Um yeah, I'm a wrestling fan, so um...you can kinda fuck off with that take.

[MasenkoHA]

Bruh, all them folks at the 25th tournament were Mr. Satan worshippers who think all that shit was tricks. The tournament was a glorified pro wrestling show by that point.

Murdering Pro Wrestling fans is valid so Vegeta probably was a hero all along.

Um yeah, I'm a wrestling fan, so um...you can kinda fuck off with that take.

T’was a joke. My bad.

[jjgp1112]

Murdering Pro Wrestling fans is valid so Vegeta probably was a hero all along.

Um yeah, I'm a wrestling fan, so um...you can kinda fuck off with that take.

T’was a joke. My bad.

Saul Goodman

[Trouser]

Vegeta's ROF and Broly is basically Goku's Cell Games, reduxed.
Toei made him too heroic before Cell Games, so Toriyama got salty and made Goku make the asshole move of giving Cell a senzu.
Toei made Vegeta silly and the "My Bulma" stuff and all the nice man Vegeta moments in Super series, Toriyama "reminds" people that he's still an asshole.

That's why I like Toriyama's version of Vegeta more. I've never liked this "overly good family man" take on Vegeta in Super anime and manga. Look, I know he's changed and all that stuff, but like you said, he's still an asshole. And asshole Vegeta is the best Vegeta, in my opinion.

[Brodes]

If every one of those hundreds of people was evil and deserved it, and the killer had no other option, then it could be true.

But I don't think that applies to random fans in the budokai stadium.

Perhaps being fans of martial arts, they also operate in a different morality and thus knew that there was every chance they could die while watching a fight between warriors? It's cool. It's what happens when you're involved with martial arts.

Bruh, all them folks at the 25th tournament were Mr. Satan worshippers who think all that shit was tricks. The tournament was a glorified pro wrestling show by that point.

Key word there is Satan. They were Satan worshippers! They chanted Satan constantly! By killing them all Vegeta was doing gods work or something. I don't know. It's harder to come up with this crap than I expected. (Which makes me worry more about people who don't believe Vegeta is or ever has been evil or even a bad guy.)

[PurestEvil]

Perhaps being fans of martial arts, they also operate in a different morality and thus knew that there was every chance they could die while watching a fight between warriors? It's cool. It's what happens when you're involved with martial arts.

Bruh, all them folks at the 25th tournament were Mr. Satan worshippers who think all that shit was tricks. The tournament was a glorified pro wrestling show by that point.

Key word there is Satan. They were Satan worshippers! They chanted Satan constantly! By killing them all Vegeta was doing gods work or something. I don't know. It's harder to come up with this crap than I expected. (Which makes me worry more about people who don't believe Vegeta is or ever has been evil or even a bad guy.)

Hey, maybe it’s eugenic. Those Mr. Satan worshippers must have had terribly low IQs for them to believe in his blatant lies. Vegeta was merely purifying the population by getting rid of the simpletons.

Spoiler:

JK JK don’t at me

[Skar]

That's why I like Toriyama's version of Vegeta more. I've never liked this "overly good family man" take on Vegeta in Super anime and manga. Look, I know he's changed and all that stuff, but like you said, he's still an asshole. And asshole Vegeta is the best Vegeta, in my opinion.

I'm not sure if it'll be as much as we've seen in anime or manga only scenes but Toriyama might also still consider Vegeta becoming more of a family man by EoZ. In an interview a few years ago, Toriyama seemed to forget that he only gave Vegeta a mustache for GT and assumed it was at the end of the manga. He could still be an asshole but more relaxed and used to life on Earth the older he became and after years without any major threats.

[nhienphan2808]

He’s still aiming for fights and defeating Goku in Kanzenban manga which disregard GT. I guess the real rub is he has learned to hide and control his battle lust so that it doesn’t get in the way of his life with his family. Goku is so free and spoiled he showed that all the time and is quicker on finding new strong guys, doesn’t mean vegeta doesn’t love fighting as much as goku does. Like I think and said, the main Misconception by Bulma self insert is that people think Vegeta love Bulma more than he loves fighting now. vegeta is still the most brutal and battle obsessed as all of them if not the most, he just hides or learned to look better with it. It’s not the settling down that’s wrong, it’s that GT thinks he’s earthling now, which is Piccolo lite. For the longest time in the super manga, Toyo has wrote him tsundere the way Piccolo is too. Same for a major part of his fanbase.

[jjgp1112]

He’s still aiming for fights and defeating Goku in Kanzenban manga which disregard GT. I guess the real rub is he has learned to hide and control his battle lust so that it doesn’t get in the way of his life with his family. Goku is so free and spoiled he showed that all the time and is quicker on finding new strong guys, doesn’t mean vegeta doesn’t love fighting as much as goku does. Like I think and said, the main Misconception by Bulma self insert is that people think Vegeta love Bulma more than he loves fighting now. vegeta is still the most brutal and battle obsessed as all of them if not the most, he just hides or learned to look better with it. It’s not the settling down that’s wrong, it’s that GT thinks he’s earthling now, which is Piccolo lite. For the longest time in the super manga, Toyo has wrote him tsundere the way Piccolo is too. Same for a major part of his fanbase.

Exactly, that's why I don't get why people complain about the Kanzenban ending and anime Super regressing Vegeta's character - he's gonna always be a Saiyan obsessed with being the strongest, he just has a healthier mindset and approach to it post-Buu.

[nhienphan2808]

He’s still aiming for fights and defeating Goku in Kanzenban manga which disregard GT. I guess the real rub is he has learned to hide and control his battle lust so that it doesn’t get in the way of his life with his family. Goku is so free and spoiled he showed that all the time and is quicker on finding new strong guys, doesn’t mean vegeta doesn’t love fighting as much as goku does. Like I think and said, the main Misconception by Bulma self insert is that people think Vegeta love Bulma more than he loves fighting now. vegeta is still the most brutal and battle obsessed as all of them if not the most, he just hides or learned to look better with it. It’s not the settling down that’s wrong, it’s that GT thinks he’s earthling now, which is Piccolo lite. For the longest time in the super manga, Toyo has wrote him tsundere the way Piccolo is too. Same for a major part of his fanbase.

Exactly, that's why I don't get why people complain about the Kanzenban ending and anime Super regressing Vegeta's character - he's gonna always be a Saiyan obsessed with being the strongest, he just has a healthier mindset and approach to it post-Buu.

True and that’s what the Majin thing is about. Majin Vegeta IS Vegeta. Piccolo would have been the secretly soft boy wanting to be tough Vegetas fans think he is. Vegeta is “softer” now but at his core he’s the tough and assholerish one. They might look similar but their arc have almost opposite nuances.

[Skar]

He’s still aiming for fights and defeating Goku in Kanzenban manga which disregard GT. I guess the real rub is he has learned to hide and control his battle lust so that it doesn’t get in the way of his life with his family. Goku is so free and spoiled he showed that all the time and is quicker on finding new strong guys, doesn’t mean vegeta doesn’t love fighting as much as goku does. Like I think and said, the main Misconception by Bulma self insert is that people think Vegeta love Bulma more than he loves fighting now. vegeta is still the most brutal and battle obsessed as all of them if not the most, he just hides or learned to look better with it. It’s not the settling down that’s wrong, it’s that GT thinks he’s earthling now, which is Piccolo lite. For the longest time in the super manga, Toyo has wrote him tsundere the way Piccolo is too. Same for a major part of his fanbase.

I agree with that. I think it just depends on how extreme it goes in both directly since it doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Vegeta I'd still a Saiyan and was a soldier for the first 30 years of his life so settling down doesn't necessarily mean that his lust for battle and basic Saiyan instincts are going to disappear. What GT and EoZ had in common is that he's no longer wearing any version of the Saiyan armor and still wants to surpass Goku but not the only thing he was obsessing over.

It's also why I didn't mind their ending in DBO. If Toriyama was involved then that's likely something he could see happening to them. Goku and Vegeta sensed that they near the end of their lives and wanted to have one final battle. It doesn't mean that's all they care about since this comes 16 years after EoZ so they were settled down and had their occasional training until then. It was only until they knew their lives would be ending that they decided to go out in battle and have a warrior's death than die of natural causes.

[theherodjl]

Imagine if Goku & Vegeta went all out against each other now? The universe and neighboring universes would be in danger since Goku is likely greater than Beerus in simple raw strength & speed as well as Vegeta presumably having tapped into the full power of a Hakaishin. It would be at least on par with the damage that Beerus & Champa would've initiated had Whis & Vados not intervened.
They probably would have to go to the world of void if they wanted to let loose. A Kachi Katchin ring would last maybe a few minutes before being reduced to dust or completely eradicated by Vegeta's Hakai.

[precita]

Vegeta only killed those people in the stands so Goku would fight him. It's ok to kill innocent people if you're trying to prove a point, and he knew they would be wished back with the Dragon Balls anyway. I would do the same thing if I were in Vegeta's shoes.

[LoganForkHands73]

Vegeta only killed those people in the stands so Goku would fight him. It's ok to kill innocent people if you're trying to prove a point, and he knew they would be wished back with the Dragon Balls anyway. I would do the same thing if I were in Vegeta's shoes.

[MyVisionity]

I can't tell whether precita is joking or not.