How long until Mr Popo gets cancelled?

[MasenkoHA]

It's not quite as ridiculous as the racist Cell evolution theory.

I'm morbidly curious...

The idea is that the three main forms of Cell represent racial stereotypes and suggest a hierarchy of races.

Imperfect: Asian (smallest form, slanted eyes, although in some tellings I've also heard that it represents Jewish people, due to being sneaky and deceptive)

Semi-Perfect: Black (large, hulking and brutish, big lips)

Perfect: White (white face, elegant and well-sculpted features, superior attitude and capabilities)

It's really a stretch and I think it says more about the people who subscribe to the theory than it does about Toriyama and his character designs.

Jeezus that sounds like something out of 4chan or Stormfront

[Polyphase Avatron]

I'm morbidly curious...

The idea is that the three main forms of Cell represent racial stereotypes and suggest a hierarchy of races.

Imperfect: Asian (smallest form, slanted eyes, although in some tellings I've also heard that it represents Jewish people, due to being sneaky and deceptive)

Semi-Perfect: Black (large, hulking and brutish, big lips)

Perfect: White (white face, elegant and well-sculpted features, superior attitude and capabilities)

It's really a stretch and I think it says more about the people who subscribe to the theory than it does about Toriyama and his character designs.

Jeezus that sounds like something out of 4chan or Stormfront

The ironic part is that the theory alleges that all of that was intentional and it means Toriyama is racist. But it seems much more like the people who came up with the theory are the racist ones.

[MyVisionity]

But it seems much more like the people who came up with the theory are the racist ones.

I don't see where you're getting this from at all. Why are they racist for pointing out racist thinking?

Even though I may not necessarily agree with that theory, I can see their point. It's no coincidence that Cell's physical appearance changes the way it does as he becomes more "perfect".

[goku the krump dancer]

You say you dont agree with it but You're also speaking as if there's possibly some proof somewhere that Toriyama had that stupid theory in mind when designing Cell.

But you see what happens when you try to force your personal experience on things when it doesn't necessarily apply? You get half baked comments from Rappers (RZA) relating Freeza's relationship to the Saiyans as a reflection of slavery in the states (WRONG) and you get some cockamamie theory about Cell's face.

I have to ask at this point though, What's the end goal of this conversation, we're gonna keep going back and forth to what end? Will some of you not be satisfied until Toriyama makes a public apology? Is that necessary? Is that really a hill worth dying on when the group in question for the most part aren't bothered by Mr. Popo?

Question : When will Dragon Ball be ripped a new one because of Mr. Popo?

Answer : It wont?

Why? : Because said group of people who are the subject of Popo's design don't take offense to the character.

Retort : but its still racist.

Counter Retort: Sure, but we're not offended.

Counter Counter : but its still racist.

Counter Counter Counter : Okay but the character himself isn't offensive, he's fairly competent amongst the cast of characters within the story.

Counter x4: But its still racist.

[Polyphase Avatron]

But it seems much more like the people who came up with the theory are the racist ones.

I don't see where you're getting this from at all. Why are they racist for pointing out racist thinking?

Even though I may not necessarily agree with that theory, I can see their point. It's no coincidence that Cell's physical appearance changes the way it does as he becomes more "perfect".

They're the ones coming up with this crazy idea and, in the process, suggesting what their own stereotypes of different races are. The whole idea is pretty nuts. Why would Toriyama, an Asian man, make a racist allegory with his own race on the bottom of the ladder?

[Ringworm128]

But it seems much more like the people who came up with the theory are the racist ones.

I don't see where you're getting this from at all. Why are they racist for pointing out racist thinking?

Even though I may not necessarily agree with that theory, I can see their point. It's no coincidence that Cell's physical appearance changes the way it does as he becomes more "perfect".

It's literally just the "Black people are orcs" argument but for Dragon Ball. If you argue it's a thing people are in the right of suspecting you of being racist. Like how does someone's brain even make the connection between a design like Cell's and races?

[FlpShimizu]

If there's people being reminded of the systemic racism we live in by Mr. Popo, he should be cancelled or redesigned. I'm not qualified to make that judgement since I'm a white dude and can't possibly know what they feel towards the character, but everything should evolve and Dragon Ball is no exception. We know very well there's plenty of stuff in Dragon Ball that was alright in the 80s but not anymore.

That said, I never saw Popo as a regular human being like I saw General Black or Uub. Dude was dressed like a genie, lived in the sky, has pointy ears, doesn't have a nose and his skin tone is as black as the void. I always thought he was an alien or mystic being, like Kami.

[MyVisionity]

They're the ones coming up with this crazy idea and, in the process, suggesting what their own stereotypes of different races are. The whole idea is pretty nuts. Why would Toriyama, an Asian man, make a racist allegory with his own race on the bottom of the ladder?

They're suggesting racial stereotypes in general, not necessarily their own personal racial assumptions. Those are all common stereotypes regarding race. I took it to mean that they believe Toriyama is the one who thinks that way, not them.

Toriyama would place his own race at the bottom due to internalized racism, and a belief that Asians are inferior to the superior White race. That seems likely enough to me. Aside from that, as you suggested, it may not necessarily be Asians at the bottom of this theoretical hierarchy at all. Or maybe it's just an inhuman monster at the bottom, followed by a brutish (Black) man, and then finally reaching a perfected (white) man at the top. Who knows.

I do think that Cell's facial features are suppose to be viewed as going from ugly to attractive. The extent to which race factors in, either intentionally or unintentionally, I am not sure.

[MasenkoHA]

But it seems much more like the people who came up with the theory are the racist ones.

I don't see where you're getting this from at all. Why are they racist for pointing out racist thinking?

Even though I may not necessarily agree with that theory, I can see their point. It's no coincidence that Cell's physical appearance changes the way it does as he becomes more "perfect".

Because no fucking sane person would read Imperfect Cell =Asian or Jewish Semi Perfect Cell=Black Perfect Cell= White?


This isn’t even someone reading into something too much this is just straight racist rhetoric. This is something a white supremacist on Stormfront would have come up with

[goku the krump dancer]

If anything Yajirobe has more asian centric eyes at least in the way toriyama would depict it with his art style. Cell has more animal like eyes in his first form, something resembling a cat's eye when they are relaxed or aroused with the thin pupils.













Can we PLEASE stop trying to make sense of this stupid theory now?

[MyVisionity]

Because no fucking sane person would read Imperfect Cell =Asian or Jewish Semi Perfect Cell=Black Perfect Cell= White?

I can totally see it. At least with Cell's 2nd and 3rd forms. It's probably the least insane DB race theory that I've heard.

And I still don't see the racism or white supremacy in it.

[MasenkoHA]

Because no fucking sane person would read Imperfect Cell =Asian or Jewish Semi Perfect Cell=Black Perfect Cell= White?

I can totally see it. At least with Cell's 2nd and 3rd forms. It's probably the least insane DB race theory that I've heard.

Please for the love of God tell me you’re just trolling. If you think looking at Cell’s different forms and going “Yep that’s an asian guy” “Yep that’s a black guy” and “yep that’s a white guy” is a normal reaction I can’t help you.

And I still don't see the racism or white supremacy in it.

“Imperfect Cell is an Asian because he had slanty eyes or Jewish because he’s sneaky. Semi Perfect Cell is a Black guy because he’s a brute and has giant lips. Perfect Cell is a white guy because he’s superior and perfect and has good features”


Seriously what in the everlasting fuck is wrong with you that you can’t see why that interpretation screams white supremacist take?

[MyVisionity]

If you think looking at Cell’s different forms and going “Yep that’s an asian guy” “Yep that’s a black guy” and “yep that’s a white guy” is a normal reaction I can’t help you.

Dunno what to tell you, it seems like a perfectly reasonable reaction to me. :shrug:

“Imperfect Cell is an Asian because he had slanty eyes or Jewish because he’s sneaky. Semi Perfect Cell is a Black guy because he’s a brute and has giant lips. Perfect Cell is a white guy because he’s superior and perfect and has good features”

Those are all historical racist assumptions and common depictions of race in media. I don't think that pointing it out = white supremacist. Instead it's calling out the white supremacy and racism in Toriyama's work.

[PurestEvil]

Those are all historical racist assumptions and common depictions of race in media. I don't think that pointing it out = white supremacist. Instead it's calling out the white supremacy and racism in Toriyama's work.

You can’t even prove this idiotic hypothesis. Unless you find Toriyama saying “oh yeah Perfect Cell is meant to be a white dude”, it is nothing but conjecture.
What’s next, SSJ being racist for having Yellow hair and blue eyes like Hitler’s ideal Aryans?

[Koitsukai]

I have to admit, MyVisionity comes every week with new material.

At this point, I'm just waiting for a new manga panel edit about this Cell evolution theory that makes only Toriyama racist and not those who came up with that theory based on their own phenotype-based prejudices, that are not even in the character in question to begin with.

[MyVisionity]

Unless you find Toriyama saying “oh yeah Perfect Cell is meant to be a white dude”, it is nothing but conjecture.

It may not necessarily even be a white dude for Perfect Cell, but a light-skinned Asian dude instead. A result of the whole "light skinned Asian over dark skinned Asian" psychology.

Either way, no one's gonna just come out and say it explicitly. Just like in the real world, racism often remains implicit-only. It's up to people to think for themselves and draw their own conclusions.

Besides, Toriyama himself may not even be fully aware of what he was drawing. It could just as easily be unconscious racism on his part.

[pepd]

Or maybe Toriyama made him like that because the first form fits the character and is different from the designs the editor criticized (N17, 18 19 and 20), the second form is like that because it also was criticized, it looks though before the final form and wanted an expressive face unlike the first form, and the final because the face got criticized as ridiculous and Toriyama likes slim final forms.

I can see people making the connection of [Black >] because of the lips, darker skin and racism, but this looks more like a parody on that or bait.

[goku the krump dancer]

So Pikkon and The Evil Dragon Brothers are pseudo black because of the full lips?

Also Officer Black who’s actually black was not an “aggressive Brute” like 2nd form Cell is apparently supposed to be. He was calm, collected and played his position until it was time for him to literally pull the trigger and betray Commander Red. Android 15 wasn’t an aggressive brute either, that was #14. If you wanna treat Popo as black, he’s also not an aggressive brute, The Heeters from the lastest storyline who’re pseudo black also aren’t a gang of aggressive brutes.

Hell even you treat Oob, King Chappa and Nam as black characters, they aren’t aggressive brutes either.

This whole thing is so dumb, it’s almost giving me a headache. Who knows, maybe I’m taking the bait and just need to chillax a bit but my goodness.

[MyVisionity]

So Pikkon and The Evil Dragon Brothers are pseudo black because of the full lips?

Also Officer Black who’s actually black was not an “aggressive Brute” like 2nd form Cell is apparently supposed to be. He was calm, collected and played his position until it was time for him to literally pull the trigger and betray Commander Red. Android 15 wasn’t an aggressive brute either, that was #14. If you wanna treat Popo as black, he’s also not an aggressive brute, The Heeters from the lastest storyline who’re pseudo black also aren’t a gang of aggressive brutes.

I don't remember Pike and the Dragons lips, although full, being quite as big as the others. But regardless, the round fuller lips are not always suppose to be a sign of Blackness. Sometimes it just means that the character is dumb. Other times it's just a part of the character's design for any other reason.

Officer Black also got turned into a fool by Goku in the end, doing stupid shit. All of this after his anger and rage overtook him and he shot Red in cold blood.

Android 15 was a damn pimp.

Hell even you treat Oob, King Chappa and Nam as black characters, they aren’t aggressive brutes either.

Why would anyone treat South Asian characters as Black??

[Grimlock]

Because there's no "South Asian" characters, it's a fictional world with its own geographical map not based on the real world. They have a darker skin and some cultures would call that "black" or "brown".