Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Alkiser » Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:57 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:54 pm
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:51 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:45 pm

So? It's still offensive. Who cares if it was at some point inoffensive to cishet, abled, neurotypical white people? That framing misses the forest for the trees.
,,neurotypical white people?"

It was really racist

You just suggested that only autistic white people liked those gags
No I did not. :)
You made

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:03 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:45 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:39 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:35 pm

That's what I've been arguing for forever.

I would remove the 'nowadays', though, as this shit was always offensive.
Well I was just implying that for a lot of the older stuff (30s - 50s cartoons), it was at least partially a product of its time.
So? It's still offensive. Who cares if it was at some point inoffensive to cishet, abled, neurotypical white people? That framing misses the forest for the trees.
The point was just to get the context across, that something like that would not be acceptable to make today, but times and culture were different back then. Not that there wasn't anything wrong with it when it was made, but the society of the time didn't consider it offensive, and the creators would have been a lot less aware that it would be considered offensive. Just to head off arguments about 'why can't we make this stuff today'?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:04 pm

Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:57 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:54 pm
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:51 pm

,,neurotypical white people?"

It was really racist

You just suggested that only autistic white people liked those gags
No I did not. :)
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Alkiser » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:11 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:04 pm
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:57 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 12:54 pm

No I did not. :)
You made
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Was it racist to say that black people wouldn't like that kind of humor? Or Asians (and they are the ones who spread that kind of humor) , then maybe you should add white and yellow neurotypical people. But no, because that would make you sound even more racist.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by VegettoEX » Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:12 pm

Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:03 am Almost everyone on this forum started watching Dragon Ball when they were children. We all turned out fine.
One could reasonably point out that some of them turned out to be racist, sexist, transphobic, hateful assholes. That's not "fine." Here at Kanzenshuu, we try to get rid of them on sight, of course.
MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:41 am For fuck sake we already have in the fandom an English voice actor finally called out for his inappropriate behavior that’s been a known thing for years and over half the fandom’s attitude is to demonize a female voice actress for calling him out.
Ding ding ding on that one right here!
Alkiser wrote:So many years of publishing manga and releasing anime, and it's only the 21st century that makes this some big issue that supposedly demoralizes children.
This is -- again -- a clear sign that you simply don't have the historical context / knowledge / frame of reference to truly discuss what you want to talk about. Too young? Too new? Too naive? Maybe a combination? Sorry not sorry on this, but you don't know what you're talking about, and someone needs to put their foot down and tell you that. I guess it's going to be me again.

All of this absolutely has been in discussion since its original serialization. We have covered it on this very website. Over the course of multiple decades now.
Alkiser wrote:You just suggested that only autistic white people liked those gags
Among other moderation, an account strike and extended temporary ban is being issued for your continued posting behavior. As a new registrant, perhaps you need to be more explicitly told that we're under absolutely no obligation to listen to or put up with this nonsense.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:08 pm

Censorship isn’t a uniquely 21st century concept. It’s always been a thing in media.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:16 pm

WittyUsername wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:08 pm Censorship isn’t a uniquely 21st century concept. It’s always been a thing in media.
Nothing is being censored? Dragon Ball Super is still widely available as it was created.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:19 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:16 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:08 pm Censorship isn’t a uniquely 21st century concept. It’s always been a thing in media.
Nothing is being censored? Dragon Ball Super is still widely available as it was created.
It was censored in Argentina ffs...that’s the point of this thread
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by MasenkoHA » Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:28 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:19 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:16 pm
WittyUsername wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:08 pm Censorship isn’t a uniquely 21st century concept. It’s always been a thing in media.
Nothing is being censored? Dragon Ball Super is still widely available as it was created.
It was censored in Argentina ffs...that’s the point of this thread
Cartoon Network and Warner Media in Argentina temporarily pulled the show for editing. It’s still available on home media. It’s not being censored

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by WittyUsername » Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:35 pm

Sigh

I don’t understand why my comment was misinterpreted, but I never remotely suggested that DBS isn’t widely available in its original form, nor did I take any kind of stance one way or the other on the decision to temporarily pull the series from cable broadcasting in Argentina. When I mentioned censorship, I wasn’t using that in a negative context.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Tian » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:00 pm

Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:48 am Some nonsense government bureau shouldn't be wasting tax money.
As an Argentinian, I can assure you that the ones in charge of our women's ministry have already wasted the budget on shit before.

And with shit I mean, expensive catering services, cars:
https://www.mdzol.com/politica/2021/2/1 ... 38581.html

https://realpolitik.com.ar/nota/44188/e ... cionarias/

Basically, they wasted the budget on shit for themselves rather than use it to really help women.

I'm not saying that having a women's ministry is bad but that it MUST be lead by a competent team that does really care for women...

Man, I'm really angry that everyday, women are killed in Argentina and OUR shitty women's ministry is not helping at all because as I said above, they egostically prefer to waste money on expensive shit rather than really help...

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:09 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:28 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:19 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:16 pm

Nothing is being censored? Dragon Ball Super is still widely available as it was created.
It was censored in Argentina ffs...that’s the point of this thread
Cartoon Network and Warner Media in Argentina temporarily pulled the show for editing. It’s still available on home media. It’s not being censored
How is editing the show not censorship? That’s like saying the *bleeps* everytime a character says “FUCK” isn’t censored because they are not present in home releases...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Sep 04, 2021 3:11 pm

MasenkoHA wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:28 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:19 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 2:16 pm

Nothing is being censored? Dragon Ball Super is still widely available as it was created.
It was censored in Argentina ffs...that’s the point of this thread
Cartoon Network and Warner Media in Argentina temporarily pulled the show for editing. It’s still available on home media. It’s not being censored
I'm a bit unclear on the definitions here. Does something not count as 'censored' when the original, unedited version is can still be obtained? For example, a censored version of a song that places beeps over explicit lyrics doesn't mean that the original version of the song no longer exists, but it's still a censored version, right?
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:00 pm

Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:03 am That was my answer
Dragon Ball is first and foremost a lightener, which is supposed to give fun in reading and getting to know the characters and their stories.
Probably a poor decision to make a bunch of the jokes be about women getting assaulted then.
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:03 amI'm tired of finding problems everywhere in order to find something in the name of cancel culture.
No you're not, you just want to dismiss media criticism you don't like. "They've gone too far this time!" has been the ideology for attacking progressive critique for hundreds of years and probably will be for hundreds more.
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:03 am Dragon Ball wasn't even originally intended for western youth, but for Japanese youth, where jokes with old perverts are the norm (hello Jirayie from Naruto and Sanjie from One Piece, although he's not an old man) in Japanese comics.
Neither Jiraiya nor Sanji molest people.

Also, being Japanese does not grant you some "immune to bad influences in media" trait.
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:03 amFunnily enough millions of kids grew up on DB and somehow they don't molest the first woman they meet on the street, yes molestation is bad, humiliating women is bad, rape is bad, these are obvious things everyone knows about.
Well, obviously you didn't, or else you wouldn't be defending it here.
Alkiser wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:03 am How is no one paying attention to Roshi's behavior? Every now and then he gets a pat or a slap from Bulma, Chichi or Eighteen, even Yuri slapped him for being a thug. In DB, it was never the case that Roshi was macing someone with impunity, he almost always got punched in the face or any other part of the body.
Do you not see how reducing it to a harmless gag minimizes what a gross thing it is?
Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:10 am You're basically saying "I'm not saying saying "fiction affects reality" but fiction affects reality." Since when has anyone ever heard about someone being beaten to death and thought "Oh yeah totally normal thing that happens?"
You are incredibly naive.

Also, I literally included an example in the same post of, again, an advisor to the actual Japanese prime minister, saying that he should have the right to molest women in public. Do you think that a statement like that and a broad culture of sexual harassment and assault in media are just entirely unrelated, with absolutely no possible ties? Do you think the constant American media glorification of gun violence and the extreme amounts of gun violence in America are completely unrelated? Exactly how simple do I have to make it?
Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:10 amThe cop example doesn't make any sense either. Someone being a domestic abuser would have a ton of factors, such as their upbringing, never learning to control temper, drinking problems etc, not what cartoons they watched as a kid.
Again this is an incredibly poor portrayal of the other side. You're really looking to win this argument with "because this guy said this one thing might play a factor he therefore believes it is the only factor"?

Do you think it is just some freak coincidence that cops often idolize Dirty Harry? Is there no possible fucking link between a misbehaving police force and an entire enormous industry and genre of media that glorifies rule-breaking cops?

This is incredibly stupid. The line for media affecting people's mindset is not "it either causes violence or it doesn't", and if you're going to be a complete fool and just ignore what everyone else says, then you might as well just fucking leave.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:41 pm

Shaddy wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:00 pmDo you not see how reducing it to a harmless gag minimizes what a gross thing it is?
I think the idea of Roshi trying to retrain himself to eliminate his perverted instincts was a good first step, although the way they went about it was pretty bad. But he doesn't really seem to have fully learned his lesson. I think it would be good if he suffered some real consequences.

Like say that he tried to grope Helles (the God of Destruction of Universe 2, for those of you who don't follow Super) and she replies by threatening to hakai him (or even actually doing it). Or maybe she just hakais part of him... :o
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by DBPirate » Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:45 pm

Banning the entire series for one episode is silly, even though that episode is by far one of, if not the worst episode in Super.

EDIT: I see that the series is being edited and will return to the air. In that case, I don't see the problem. But I probably wouldn't see the problem with most "cancellations" generally.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Sat Sep 04, 2021 5:05 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:41 pm Like say that he tried to grope Helles (the God of Destruction of Universe 2, for those of you who don't follow Super) and she replies by threatening to hakai him (or even actually doing it). Or maybe she just hakais part of him... :o
I can think of a two parts of the body that would be removed from him...both of which are in a sac...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Robo4900 » Sat Sep 04, 2021 8:07 pm

I'm honestly shocked no other territories have done anything about the reprehensible shit Roshi gets up to in these episodes. Even Funimation's TV edit of the show mostly leaves this material intact.

Sexual assault and harassment should not be played for laughs, especially in a kids' show.
The point of Dragon Ball is to enjoy it. Never lose sight of that.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Ringworm128 » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:01 pm

Shaddy wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 4:00 pm
Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:10 am You're basically saying "I'm not saying saying "fiction affects reality" but fiction affects reality." Since when has anyone ever heard about someone being beaten to death and thought "Oh yeah totally normal thing that happens?"
You are incredibly naive.

Also, I literally included an example in the same post of, again, an advisor to the actual Japanese prime minister, saying that he should have the right to molest women in public. Do you think that a statement like that and a broad culture of sexual harassment and assault in media are just entirely unrelated, with absolutely no possible ties? Do you think the constant American media glorification of gun violence and the extreme amounts of gun violence in America are completely unrelated? Exactly how simple do I have to make it?
Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:10 amThe cop example doesn't make any sense either. Someone being a domestic abuser would have a ton of factors, such as their upbringing, never learning to control temper, drinking problems etc, not what cartoons they watched as a kid.
Again this is an incredibly poor portrayal of the other side. You're really looking to win this argument with "because this guy said this one thing might play a factor he therefore believes it is the only factor"?

Do you think it is just some freak coincidence that cops often idolize Dirty Harry? Is there no possible fucking link between a misbehaving police force and an entire enormous industry and genre of media that glorifies rule-breaking cops?

This is incredibly stupid. The line for media affecting people's mindset is not "it either causes violence or it doesn't", and if you're going to be a complete fool and just ignore what everyone else says, then you might as well just fucking leave.
Dirty Harry is one of the most famous movies of the 20th century, of course there's going to be people born in the 70's and 80's that idolize the main character, most of them aren't domestic abusers though.

The United States idolizes guns because the country was literally formed though gun violence. They had to war with the British to gain independence, followed by a century of stuff like the War of 1812 and civil war; not to mention more recent wars like Vietnam and WW2. Guns were a deep part of the American psyche long before Rambo movies and cop dramas.

"Blame the media they watch" is just a lazy cop out used to not actually figure out what caused someone to behave in a certain way. If you're going to argue "I'm not saying it caused it *directly*" but he might have done x because he watched y when he was younger which might have caused him to think z was ok." then you're out of the realm of trying to make a reasonable argument and might as well start drawing lines on newspaper clippings stuck to the wall to prove your point.
VegettoEX wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 1:12 pm
Ringworm128 wrote: Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:03 am Almost everyone on this forum started watching Dragon Ball when they were children. We all turned out fine.
One could reasonably point out that some of them turned out to be racist, sexist, transphobic, hateful assholes. That's not "fine." Here at Kanzenshuu, we try to get rid of them on sight, of course.

And they all probably had varying lives and upbringings that led them down that path, I heavily doubt it was because they laughed at Roshi jumping into 18's chest and getting thrown across the room.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Sat Sep 04, 2021 9:53 pm

Wrote a reply and then deleted it because I realized that I was just repeating myself.
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