Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.

Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:33 pm

kemuri07 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:36 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 pm

Calling the likes of the USSR 'reactionary conservatives' makes zero sense. It seems like you're trying to redefine everything to fit your preconceived notions - everything left must be good, and everything right must be bad, so every bad government had to have been right-wing, and not left-wing. It's like how some conservatives claim that the Nazis couldn't have been conservative because they called themselves 'socialist'.

I mean...I think you're kinda missing the point here. The poster wasn't calling the USSR conservatives, but that "socialism" becomes the go-to phrase for reactionaries who wish to paint enemies as "Un-American." Basically, anything not capitalism must be communism. And that's bad. Socialism/Communism has become pretty much meaningless as a lot of Americans don't even know what the word means, even though many benefit from some aspect of socialism in their lives. In regards to what happen with Russia and China...they failed the basic tenants of socialism/communism. That's why during the 50s and 60s many American communists fell out of favor with the party, because they saw what Stalin was doing and it wasn't what they signed up for.

When people claim they are socialist, 9 times out of 10 they're really democratic socialist, and there is a difference. People like Elizabeth Warren or AOC do not want to destroy capitalism. What they do, however, want is to use the levers of Capitalism to in favor of more socialist like demands: A stronger labor party, a welfare state that can provide for its people, and less influence from billionaires and business owners and to tax the rich. These are things most people want, but due to lack of education and deliberate fucking around by certain political actors, it's hard for Americans to come together on these issues
Of course I know that. But some people here are advocating for 'destroying capitalism', and when I point out where that has lead to historically, they go 'no, that doesn't count, it wasn't real communism, it was actually right-wing fascism'.
Truth is, capitalism as it is right now is on its way to being an authoritative police state, and I'm sure some would argue we're already there anyways. When a small group of people have access to a majority of the wealth, and the rest of us have to fight for scraps, that level of inequality eventually leads to the type of shit we're seeing across Latin America. Capitalism, at least the version we were sold on, is just as much a failure as the "communism" of China and Russia.
Which is why it needs to be reformed. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pm

Shaddy wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:52 pm
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 pm It's like how some conservatives claim that the Nazis couldn't have been conservative because they called themselves 'socialist'.
This is literally the thing that you are doing, right now.
Not at all. You're the one claiming the USSR and Maoist China were right-wing.
Because that's wrong. A state will always be a power separate from the public, meaning state ownership is one more form of private ownership. It would only be a part of the definition if you were willing to acknowledge that there are inherent fundamental differences in the ideology across differing factions, but since you have proven time and time again that you are not willing to budge even a single inch on this, then I'm well within my rights to treat every definition you pretend to care about as just as false as your own opinions. Communism is inherently stateless.
So you're arguing with the dictionary now.
Everyone having enough to live comfortably is not possible within capitalism.
Maybe not with completely unrestrained, laissez-faire capitalism, but that's certainly no reason to make it illegal to start a business or earn money.
The government is what's protecting the people hoarding space, food and water. There's actually quite a lot of all three of those things, possibly your mythical idea of "enough". You can't pretend to know what it takes for an equal society to exist when you refuse to acknowledge how it is intentionally being held back.
And you think there could realistically be one world government that could have access to all of these resources and be trusted to fairly distribute them to everyone on Earth? Or rather, since you're against governments and states in general, how do you expect this to work out? 7+ billion people just agree to all never be greedy and share everything, without any way to enforce it if they decide not to?
This was Aim's mistake in attempting compromise with your positions. There was not, at any point, a plan to wholly eliminate class, state or money. The ideology was to seize as much power for the ruling class as possible, same as conservatives and fascists. You can't judge equality as bad when your example is a bunch of people who said they wanted equality and were very obviously lying. Why do you believe these socially-conservative authoritarian nationalists when they call themselves leftists, but recognize the Nazis were not?
They had the original goal of equality, but went about it the wrong way. They didn't count on the inherent greed and selfishness of humanity, so when they put people in power that they thought would treat everyone fairly, they instead hoarded all of the power, food, and money for themselves. And if your solution is to have no one in power, then there is no way to gather and distribute resources or grant rights to everyone.
Frankly I'm getting pretty tired of this meandering around the subject. The bottom line is this: no matter what wrong definition you put forth for the past "communist" regimes, there is no meaningful way to equate them with the ideology held by the modern far-left in any way, be it theory or praxis. There is also no fair comparison between the ideology nor most of the actions of the far-left with anything the far-right has done or is still doing. Every single bit of reasoning you've tried to wring out of this take is either a false equivalence from the right, or straight up regurgitation of their ideals and propaganda. It is incredibly tiring and I hope one day you learn to sing a better song.
If you're just going to redefine 'far-left' so that the USSR and every communist government in history don't count, then fine, your mythical version of the 'far left' is morally perfect and can do no wrong. Now if you could only properly define what it is...
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

MyVisionity
Banned
Posts: 1834
Joined: Tue Feb 24, 2004 11:51 pm
Location: US

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by MyVisionity » Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:19 pm

Just want to add that it's ok to "argue with the dictionary". The dictionary is a helpful resource, but it's important to know when to put it aside and use your own judgement and reasoning. You shouldn't just assume that the dictionary is always right.

User avatar
Shaddy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:34 pm

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:33 pm Of course I know that. But some people here are advocating for 'destroying capitalism', and when I point out where that has lead to historically, they go 'no, that doesn't count, it wasn't real communism, it was actually right-wing fascism'.

Which is why it needs to be reformed. But don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Historically, simply "not being capitalism" has lead to a whole bunch of different kinds of societies, many of which do not fit into your grade-school ideas of left and right. Also, it's interesting that you think capitalism "just needs reform" and communism is fundamentally corrupt, when more people die of capitalism every single year than the entire history of so-called "communism", as embellished by capitalists counting nazis killed in WWII as "deaths of communism".
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pm Not at all. You're the one claiming the USSR and Maoist China were right-wing.

So you're arguing with the dictionary now.
Me correctly identifying people as right-wing is fundamentally different than them lying about being leftists. YOU spreading that lie is exactly what they would have wanted. And for the record, I'm arguing with the specific definition you cited because it's wrong, or at least reductive. I could cite the oxford languages dictionary myself if I wanted to, which clearly states collective ownership by the working class. But I'm not going to do that, because that would imply I think you're going to listen. You're making an argument from authority, and an argument from a different authority won't help.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pm Maybe not with completely unrestrained, laissez-faire capitalism, but that's certainly no reason to make it illegal to start a business or earn money.

And you think there could realistically be one world government that could have access to all of these resources and be trusted to fairly distribute them to everyone on Earth?
Do you think capitalism just...invented all markets or something? Also, nice new world order conspiracy bullshit.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pmOr rather, since you're against governments and states in general, how do you expect this to work out? 7+ billion people just agree to all never be greedy and share everything, without any way to enforce it if they decide not to?
Image
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pm They had the original goal of equality, but went about it the wrong way.

They didn't count on the inherent greed and selfishness of humanity, so when they put people in power that they thought would treat everyone fairly, they instead hoarded all of the power, food, and money for themselves.
No, they counted precisely on that. That was the point of that government and that society. There is no part of equality that starts with vanguard party rule. It's the same shit as in America, where a bunch of slave-owning rich guys claimed they were fighting for "freedom". It wasn't a mistake, it was a lie.

Also, people are inherently cooperative and social. Any society you build makes a conscious choice to emphasize certain things humans do, and none of them are more "natural" than others, to say nothing of what is "natural" not necessarily being what is right.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pm And if your solution is to have no one in power, then there is no way to gather and distribute resources or grant rights to everyone.
WOW, this is some real "Well it was WHITE PEOPLE who ended slavery" bullshit. A "nuking Japan was good because we eventually got anime"-level bootlick.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:42 pm If you're just going to redefine 'far-left' so that the USSR and every communist government in history don't count, then fine, your mythical version of the 'far left' is morally perfect and can do no wrong. Now if you could only properly define what it is...
I'm not redefining anything, you are. The left has never at any point been about authoritarian socially-conservative state-capitalist police states. If you think it has, then go tell these people they're pro-police, tell these people they're social conservatives, these people they love capitalism, and then maybe strip naked and smash your computer with a baseball bat because technology and clothing aren't "natural".

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 pm

You will find no more left-wing a people than queer folks. The idea that queer people (especially trans people) would so uniformly espouse communism as a 'violent' political ideology is pretty ridiculous. We'll defend ourselves but our politics are staunchly not authoritarian.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm

MyVisionity wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:19 pm Just want to add that it's ok to "argue with the dictionary". The dictionary is a helpful resource, but it's important to know when to put it aside and use your own judgement and reasoning. You shouldn't just assume that the dictionary is always right.
No, but that doesn't mean you can make up your own definitions of words and insist that they have to mean only what you say.
Historically, simply "not being capitalism" has lead to a whole bunch of different kinds of societies, many of which do not fit into your grade-school ideas of left and right. Also, it's interesting that you think capitalism "just needs reform" and communism is fundamentally corrupt, when more people die of capitalism every single year than the entire history of so-called "communism", as embellished by capitalists counting nazis killed in WWII as "deaths of communism".
Sure, if you count every single person who has ever died while living in a capitalist nation as a 'death caused by capitalism'. :roll:

I agree that the US is too capitalist and needs to change. But nations like Denmark, Sweden, and Finland have much better standards of living than the US, which shows that the moderate socialist policies they have implemented work. But they are still capitalist.
Me correctly identifying people as right-wing is fundamentally different than them lying about being leftists. YOU spreading that lie is exactly what they would have wanted. And for the record, I'm arguing with the specific definition you cited because it's wrong, or at least reductive. I could cite the oxford languages dictionary myself if I wanted to, which clearly states collective ownership by the working class. But I'm not going to do that, because that would imply I think you're going to listen. You're making an argument from authority, and an argument from a different authority won't help.
Claiming that Stalinist Russia and Maoist China were right-wing is just such a ridiculous claim, and one that I've never heard before from any source whatsoever, left or right. I just can't take that claim seriously. It's like saying that the Catholic church is an atheist organization, or that the Nazis were all really Jews.
Do you think capitalism just...invented all markets or something?
There are degrees of capitalism. As has been pointed out, even present-day China has a degree of capitalism in its economy. Capitalism is defined as a nation's trade, industry, and profits being controlled by private individuals and corporations. Too much of that is obviously bad. But if you were to eliminate it 100%, that would mean that the trade, industry, and profits would be 100% controlled by the government, which is just as bad.
Also, nice new world order conspiracy bullshit
No conspiracy. I'm just pointing out the implausibility of such a system. I'm not saying that I'm afraid it''s going to happen, but that it's completely impractical to actually pull off.
No, they counted precisely on that. That was the point of that government and that society. There is no part of equality that starts with vanguard party rule. It's the same shit as in America, where a bunch of slave-owning rich guys claimed they were fighting for "freedom". It wasn't a mistake, it was a lie.
Have you read Marx and Lenin? They constantly talked about equality and making sure everyone would get their fair share. But their ideas on how to accomplish that obviously failed.

This is directly from the Communist Manifesto:
This school of Socialism dissected with great acuteness the contradictions in the conditions of modern production. It laid bare the hypocritical apologies of economists. It proved, incontrovertibly, the disastrous effects of machinery and division of labour; the concentration of capital and land in a few hands; overproduction and crises; it pointed out the inevitable ruin of the petty bourgeois and peasant, the misery of the proletariat, the anarchy in production, the crying inequalities in the distribution of wealth, the industrial war of extermination between nations, the dissolution of old moral bonds, of the old family relations, of the old nationalities.
Sure sounds like they were aiming for equality and fairness, at least originally. Of course you'll probably just accuse them of lying.
Also, people are inherently cooperative and social. Any society you build makes a conscious choice to emphasize certain things humans do, and none of them are more "natural" than others, to say nothing of what is "natural" not necessarily being what is right.
But you can't expect every single person in a large society to play by the rules if there is no way to enforce said rules. People already take advantage of capitalism to accrue wealth and power for themselves at the expense of others, what would stop them from doing the same thing in an anarchist system?
WOW, this is some real "Well it was WHITE PEOPLE who ended slavery" bullshit. A "nuking Japan was good because we eventually got anime"-level bootlick.
WTF are you talking about? That's a complete non-sequitur. I'm just asking you to explain how your ideal government is even supposed to work, because from where I'm standing, it makes no sense whatsoever.
I'm not redefining anything, you are. The left has never at any point been about authoritarian socially-conservative state-capitalist police states. If you think it has, then go tell these people they're pro-police, tell these people they're social conservatives, these people they love capitalism, and then maybe strip naked and smash your computer with a baseball bat because technology and clothing aren't "natural".
Social and fiscal conservatism aren't always linked, many groups are in support of one but oppose the other. There is also a spectrum. Those people are considered left-wing by the standard of US politics, but in communist governments they would be considered right-wing, as they likely support the idea of at least some percentage of the means of production being owned by individuals and corporations.
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
Polyphase Avatron
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 6643
Joined: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:48 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:14 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 pm You will find no more left-wing a people than queer folks. The idea that queer people (especially trans people) would so uniformly espouse communism as a 'violent' political ideology is pretty ridiculous. We'll defend ourselves but our politics are staunchly not authoritarian.
Most LGBT people today are left-leaning, because right-wing conservatism (which is strongly linked to Abrahamic religions and preserving so-called 'traditional values') has been very abusive to them. But there are LGBT conservatives, and there are homophobic leftists. And communist governments haven't had the best track record with LGBT rights, either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147

User avatar
jjgp1112
Born 'n Bred Here
Posts: 7478
Joined: Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Crooklyn

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by jjgp1112 » Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:36 pm

I don't know why anybody at this stage would just expect the human race to properly police themselves.
Yamcha: Do you remember the spell to release him - do you know all the words?
Bulma: Of course! I'm not gonna pull a Frieza and screw it up!
Master Roshi: Bulma, I think Frieza failed because he wore too many clothes!
Cold World (Fanfic)
"It ain't never too late to stop bein' a bitch." - Chad Lamont Butler

WittyUsername
I Live Here
Posts: 4170
Joined: Sun Dec 22, 2013 12:09 am
Location: Houston, Texas

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by WittyUsername » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:15 am

LGBT conservatives do in fact exist, even if they’re not as common as their more left-leaning counterparts. Caitlyn Jenner is a transgender woman who openly endorsed Donald Trump and ran for Governor of California as a Republican. Of course, most of her fellow conservatives seem to want little to do with her (gee, I wonder why), but she still identifies as a conservative when it comes to most issues.

User avatar
Shaddy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 12:44 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm Sure, if you count every single person who has ever died while living in a capitalist nation as a 'death caused by capitalism'. :roll:
Considering what we just went over in terms of attributing random shit to communism, that would be fair.

But also, no, it's specifically deaths by wealth inequality and withholding of resources for money.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm I agree that the US is too capitalist and needs to change. But nations like Denmark, Sweden, and Finland have much better standards of living than the US, which shows that the moderate socialist policies they have implemented work. But they are still capitalist.
Yes, they can still be better, because that capitalismis always going to hold them back. Liberal democracy is always open to fascist infiltration.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm Claiming that Stalinist Russia and Maoist China were right-wing is just such a ridiculous claim, and one that I've never heard before from any source whatsoever, left or right.
I think we're well past the point where what you've heard is worth much of anything.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm It's like saying that the Catholic church is an atheist organization, or that the Nazis were all really Jews.
Well no, because the catholic church and the nazis never did the opposite of catholicism and fascism.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm There are degrees of capitalism. As has been pointed out, even present-day China has a degree of capitalism in its economy. Capitalism is defined as a nation's trade, industry, and profits being controlled by private individuals and corporations. Too much of that is obviously bad. But if you were to eliminate it 100%, that would mean that the trade, industry, and profits would be 100% controlled by the government, which is just as bad.
No, it wouldn't, actually. Private industry is only allowed to exist as it does because the state enforces it. They are one power, and they're both against you. You try to bootsplain marx to me later in this dumb response while ignoring that he absolutely understood this.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm No conspiracy. I'm just pointing out the implausibility of such a system. I'm not saying that I'm afraid it''s going to happen, but that it's completely impractical to actually pull off.
You're bringing up the system specifically to attach the person you're arguing with's beliefs to it as a method of dismissing them. But more importantly, fearmongering about One World Government is inherently tied to Jewish "new world order" conspiracy theories.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm Have you read Marx and Lenin? They constantly talked about equality and making sure everyone would get their fair share. But their ideas on how to accomplish that obviously failed.
Marx died long before the establishment of the USSR. He didn't build it himself. Lenin is not an aspirational figure to the left in the slightest, because even though he condemned state capitalism, he literally did build it in the Soviet Union.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm Sure sounds like they were aiming for equality and fairness, at least originally. Of course you'll probably just accuse them of lying.
"No conservative authoritarian has ever lied about being a leftist"
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm But you can't expect every single person in a large society to play by the rules if there is no way to enforce said rules.
Shaddy wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:34 pm Image
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pmPeople already take advantage of capitalism to accrue wealth and power for themselves at the expense of others, what would stop them from doing the same thing in an anarchist system?
People commit murders whether they're illegal or not, so why even have laws?
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm WTF are you talking about? That's a complete non-sequitur.
No it's not.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:11 pm Social and fiscal conservatism aren't always linked, many groups are in support of one but oppose the other. There is also a spectrum. Those people are considered left-wing by the standard of US politics, but in communist governments they would be considered right-wing, as they likely support the idea of at least some percentage of the means of production being owned by individuals and corporations.
Social and fiscal conservatism aren't always linked, but fiscal leftism is inherently the same as whichever dictatorships you say, even when they didn't have publicly-owned means of production?

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:00 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:14 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 pm You will find no more left-wing a people than queer folks. The idea that queer people (especially trans people) would so uniformly espouse communism as a 'violent' political ideology is pretty ridiculous. We'll defend ourselves but our politics are staunchly not authoritarian.
Most LGBT people today are left-leaning, because right-wing conservatism (which is strongly linked to Abrahamic religions and preserving so-called 'traditional values') has been very abusive to them. But there are LGBT conservatives, and there are homophobic leftists. And communist governments haven't had the best track record with LGBT rights, either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights
I'm aware of dipshit conservative queer people. They're exceptions to the rule and always espouse queerphobic bullshit.

'Communist governments' engaging in the abuse of queer people are not left-leaning.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:00 am
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:14 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 9:47 pm You will find no more left-wing a people than queer folks. The idea that queer people (especially trans people) would so uniformly espouse communism as a 'violent' political ideology is pretty ridiculous. We'll defend ourselves but our politics are staunchly not authoritarian.
Most LGBT people today are left-leaning, because right-wing conservatism (which is strongly linked to Abrahamic religions and preserving so-called 'traditional values') has been very abusive to them. But there are LGBT conservatives, and there are homophobic leftists. And communist governments haven't had the best track record with LGBT rights, either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights
I'm aware of dipshit conservative queer people. They're exceptions to the rule and always espouse queerphobic bullshit.

'Communist governments' engaging in the abuse of queer people are not left-leaning.
That is a pretty reductive statement. Such governments are still technically left-leaning in terms of economics, even if they concurrently enforce conservative policies.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
JulieYBM
Patreon Supporter
Posts: 16503
Joined: Mon Jan 16, 2006 10:25 pm

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:29 am

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:00 am
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:14 pm

Most LGBT people today are left-leaning, because right-wing conservatism (which is strongly linked to Abrahamic religions and preserving so-called 'traditional values') has been very abusive to them. But there are LGBT conservatives, and there are homophobic leftists. And communist governments haven't had the best track record with LGBT rights, either.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism_and_LGBT_rights
I'm aware of dipshit conservative queer people. They're exceptions to the rule and always espouse queerphobic bullshit.

'Communist governments' engaging in the abuse of queer people are not left-leaning.
That is a pretty reductive statement. Such governments are still technically left-leaning in terms of economics, even if they concurrently enforce conservative policies.
Left-leaning politics for everyone they consider desirable.

Therefore, not actually left-leaning.
She/Her💕 💜 💙
progesterone princess, estradiol empress
Lucifer's bimbo daughter

User avatar
Shaddy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:31 am

They literally aren't economically left. How many times do I have to say this? Private ownership by a state, especially in places that don't even have democracy, is not public ownership.

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:05 am

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:29 am
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:23 am
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 1:00 am

I'm aware of dipshit conservative queer people. They're exceptions to the rule and always espouse queerphobic bullshit.

'Communist governments' engaging in the abuse of queer people are not left-leaning.
That is a pretty reductive statement. Such governments are still technically left-leaning in terms of economics, even if they concurrently enforce conservative policies.
Left-leaning politics for everyone they consider desirable.

Therefore, not actually left-leaning.
The left-right paradigm is a nuanced spectrum that adapts abstract concepts into a mathematical-like data plot. Perceived oddities like this will exist on such model. Even Marx and Engels, along with many other socialists at the time, were homophobic.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
PurestEvil
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1948
Joined: Tue Nov 24, 2020 2:34 pm
Location: Constantinopolee!

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Oct 04, 2021 3:27 am

Shaddy wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 2:31 am They literally aren't economically left. How many times do I have to say this? Private ownership by a state, especially in places that don't even have democracy, is not public ownership.
There is no such thing as “Private ownership by a state”.
This post was brought to you by 魔族

Rest in Peace, Toriyama-san

User avatar
Shaddy
I'm, pretty, cozy, here...
Posts: 1612
Joined: Sat Aug 01, 2015 7:38 pm
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Mon Oct 04, 2021 5:16 pm

Uh...yes there is.

User avatar
Aim
Banned
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:17 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 pm
There seems to be an issue people have where failed socialist societies that have become government dictated are now referred to as socialist/communist.

To put things simply, capitalism is characterised by private ownership of the means of production, to put EXTREMELY SIMPLY.
Socialism is characterised by common ownership of the means of production.
Or state ownership. That's another part of the definition you are ignoring.
https://www.oxfordreference.com/view/10 ... 0104639758
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 pm
China has private property, workers are treated like shit, just like in the USSR, there is nothing remotely socialist about these countries, unfortunately back then I don’t think the technology was developed enough to reach socialism, like it is today.
I really don't buy that, considering that we still live on a planet with limited resources, so people are going to end up hoarding them one way or another. The best we can do is make sure that everyone has enough to live comfortably.


https://medium.com/@jeremyerdman/we-pro ... 86d2657539

https://foodfirst.org/publication/we-al ... nd-hunger/

You can choose what you don’t buy and what you do, if the world really did follow your logic, humans would have died many years ago. There’s an incentive to hoard, we have

1.) a profit motive
2.) commodification

Notice how Indigenous cultures were anal about keeping a balance around their areas, as to not deplete the resources, what we have now is the ability to over produce to the point we can literally feed everyone. What makes this better is that with education and rise in technology, people are having less kids.
Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 pm Like I said before, if we had Star Trek replicator technology and enough living space, food, and water for everybody without any possibility of running out, then that kind of government might work. But we're a long way from that.
We will never reach Star Trek levels of technology the way we are going, as there’s no profit involved in making society overall better for everyone for people like Elon Musk. Well actually, that’s not true, people like Elon tend to be extremely lonely, he would actually benefit in that case.

We literally have the means to be able to automate and create so much more, but we can’t because it wouldn’t function in a profit driven society, or should I say in a self interested society that functions as a dictatorship of the high upper class and wealthy.

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:09 pm
You admitted in your post that every attempt to institute a communist government ended up turning out badly, so excuse me for being skeptical of trying again today.
So has every capitalist dictatorship, see how the two aren’t mutually exclusive?

Another great example is feminism, second wave feminism and even some feminists today would reject someone like Julie from feminism, in fact they have a history of doing it to even black and gay women. Just because a movement was high jacked by bad actors doesn’t mean the movement wasn’t valid in what it was trying to do, it just means you learn from that and learn to read the signs.

A great example is the push back against China and USSR supporters who claim to be leftist.

User avatar
Aim
Banned
Posts: 761
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 8:06 am
Contact:

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Wed Oct 06, 2021 5:24 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 7:33 pm
Of course I know that. But some people here are advocating for 'destroying capitalism', and when I point out where that has lead to historically, they go 'no, that doesn't count, it wasn't real communism, it was actually right-wing fascism'.
Historically feminism was at one point race exclusionary, does this mean the original idea of equality isn’t valid? Or do we act knowledge movements can be high jacked?

Like in Australia, we recently had anti-Vaxers posing as unionists, would you say that they are unionists anyway and that the left is anti-vax?

Jord
Advanced Regular
Posts: 1474
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:13 am

Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Jord » Wed Oct 06, 2021 6:15 am

jjgp1112 wrote: Sun Oct 03, 2021 11:36 pm I don't know why anybody at this stage would just expect the human race to properly police themselves.
Come on buddy, we have to have a bit of hope :wink:

Locked