Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by HokutoNanto519 » Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:20 am

PurestEvil wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 8:05 am
HokutoNanto519 wrote: Sat Oct 09, 2021 7:42 am It was long overdue that said character got taken to task, let's not kid ourselves. Still, cancelling the entire fucking thing now strikes me as wack. They really didn't check/censor the material they air before they goddamned aired it? After all this time? Unbelievable.
ONCE AGAIN:
They. Temporarily. Pulled. The. Show. To. Edit. Bad. Parts. Out. They. Are. Not. Cancelling. It. Completely.
Ah, okay. They should have done it from the start, still.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by KingVegetto » Sat Oct 09, 2021 5:32 pm

Whoa just got caught up with this story and man oh man is it crazy. Super getting edited to remove problematic stuff overseas doesn't really bother me, and that was probably the weakest episode of the show anyways so i'm not really feeling the outrage over it here like some are.

Kunz brought up some good points, it's pretty disturbing how i've witnessed people similar to myself fall down the alt-right rabbit hole. Like this one Youtuber I used to admire called Mysterious Mr Enter, he's got autism like me and he managed to get a succesful career on Youtube so I really looked up to him until he started spouting some ignorant crap in the last few years, he never went full on MAGA(someone earlier on in the thread mentioned the term "centrist liberal" and I feel like that's a decent description of him) as he's not a Trump person, but he did spout some similar talking points in regards to some of the stuff he complains about(I.E. he bought into that nonsense about conservatives being censored on social media for his Technocracy series and he also bitched about the Ghostbusters reboot because of course)and when COVID happened he really went off the deep end with bitching about lockdowns and trying to downplay how bad it was. But for me his worst moment was when he made some ignorant post on his Deviant Art page bitching about the BLM protests, myself and many others rightfully called him out for him totally missing the point and acting like structural racism wasn't a thing and he blocked every single user who dared to call him out for it. Usually his DA posts even the more ignorant ones would have more sycophants agreeing with his every word with few dissenters, but this time was different as the reaction to his post was almost universally negative, and shortly after that he nuked his entire DA page, what a coward. Guess it was easier to set fire to the house then to admit he was wrong. He also buys into the notion that some fictional media cannot be "political" or that being political is a bad thing somehow.

BTW while many often claim Gamergate is where all this MAGA stuff came from, I personally saw it somewhere else several years earlier-Gossip sites like TMZ and Radaronline, there was so much hateful bigotry on there, even when it had nothing at all to do with the story in question. There would always be someone who would inevitably bitch and whine about Obama and spew xenophobic crap about Muslims and whatnot. There was a disturbing amount of misogyny towards female celebrities like Lindsay Lohan at the time, all this anti-Hollywood crap always came off more as jealousy then anything else. So when I first heard of GG I was surprised by how similar many self-proclaimed GGers sounded to many of the trolls i'd argued with on TMZ(spent more time then I care to admit arguing with jackasses on there). TMZ notably never ran any negative stories on Trump due to being paid off(or something like that) so the connection definitely isn't a coincidence and i'd love to see some articles talk about the connection there(if there already has been such an article please do let me know).

Kinda sad to see that a user that's been on here for over a decade got banned over this topic, I definitely understand why, but I still can't help but feel kinda bad as I could see at least some of their points.

As for whether or not I think media can affect people, I think it can absolutely, though i'm not entirely convinced that it's the reason that cops act the way they do. I think it has a lot more to do with poor training and poor standards then anything else. I heard a story about someone not getting hired as a cop because I shit you not, their IQ was "too high" :shock: , with lax standards like that combined with training that tends to encourage officers to shoot first and ask questions later, it's no wonder you hear all these stories about cops abusing their power, because if you only ever hire people below a certain IQ and teach them an "us vs them" mentality in regards to civilians, then you're just going to keep on seeing tragic stories like that.

As for the Roshi stuff, I was never morally outraged or offended by it(like Kunz I enjoy quite a bit of darkly comedic stuff like that Rob Zombie animated movie, so it takes a LOT for fictional media to personally offend me or piss me off on a moral level, generally the only media that really does that are either those bullshit religious wackjob films from Pureflix like the God's Not Dead series and so-called "documentaries" by vile con artists like Dinesh D'Souza)but I never found it particularly funny either, just trite, predictable and tiresome. I've never found the pervy old man trope in anime to be funny, it wasn't funny in DB, it wasn't funny in Sailor Moon, and it will never be funny to me(not unless they do something different with it). I've not watched a lot of recent anime so i'm not sure if it's still a prevalent trope or not(though I certainly hope not) but I hope this whole thing serves as a learning experience for anime producers and creators everywhere that society is evolving.
kemuri07 wrote: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:56 pm There is no casual connection between Master Roshi and sexual harrassment in Japan. Looked in a box, DB is harmless.


But that's not how culture works. Media both informs and takes in culture. On its own Dragon Ball doesn't do anything, but as a wider narrative of cultural representation of gender and sex, DB, along with vast amounts of other anime, tv shows, and movies can absolutely normalize certain toxic attitudes. The problem I often see in discussions about this is that people are making the wrong arguments. It's not about determining whether or not DB is bad, it's to have a discussion on what it all means. Too often, however, is that people take an all or nothing approach to everything: i.e. the culture wars.

That's not how discussions and arguments work, but I blame Ben Shapiro and his ilk for popularizing treating debates as a literal battleground. Which is a shame, because more often than not, people tend to agree with each other when people consider context.
Oh this has been going for longer then before anyone even knew who Shapiro was, I've seen these debates online since the late 2000s, and the person who really pioneered the whole "debates as battlegrounds" attitude was Pat Buchanan(he was the one that coined that ever-so-irritating and vastly overused term "political correctness"). You can trace pretty much all of this "culture war" nonsense right back to him.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 12:57 pm

Gamergate was just the inevitable congregation of all the sexism, the racism, the homophobia, etc etc...yeah it's always been there. But it was the official channel for all the toxicity on the internet.
it's pretty disturbing how i've witnessed people similar to myself fall down the Rebranded White Nationalism rabbit hole
I think it makes an odd sense. If you look at a lot the media that we consume, a lot of it contains a sort of conservatism populism that grabs people: The idea of the individual overcoming all odds through strength and will alone, and said individual attracting all of the females is an attractive premise for a lot of people, especially lonely white guys who just want to escape from the real world. And I think that's true of stuff like Star Wars, video games, and especialy anime. No, I am not trying to claim that anime is racist. What I am saying is that I think there is a correlation between the medium, and the sorts of people who are susceptible to something like the Rebranded White Nationalism.

It's easy to fall into because they don't come at you with "Hey did you know that Jews own the world and the Blacks are trying to replace you?" Instead they're like "lol fucking SJWs amirite?" There's plenty of info about how Nazis turn people, and they recognize that they can use memes and "edge-lord humor" to numb people. You keep telling the joke until it stops being funny. And while most people will probably see what's going on and back off, you only really need a small minority of people to do some damage. That small, scrawny kid desperate for belonging and acceptance, and he's being told that actually the reason why he's lonely and doesnt' have a girlfriend is because of all the brown people and women are orchestrating a plot to keep them from getting laid? All you need is one guy to orchestrate a massacre.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:25 pm

Yeah, using 'ironic bigotry' as a gateway to actual bigotry is the big key that the Alt-Right found to turning a lot of ill-nurtured white boys into real shitheads. Society softens people up with repeatedly pounding in "you need this to be successful!" and then the Alt-Right takes the dough and bakes it into Nazis.

I thank the universe every day I and other close friends didn't fall into that shit.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:29 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:25 pm Yeah, using 'ironic bigotry' as a gateway to actual bigotry is the big key that the Alt-Right found to turning a lot of ill-nurtured white boys into real shitheads. Society softens people up with repeatedly pounding in "you need this to be successful!" and then the Alt-Right takes the dough and bakes it into Nazis.
They have a saying on /pol/: "Remember, it all starts by posting ironically"
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:31 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:29 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:25 pm Yeah, using 'ironic bigotry' as a gateway to actual bigotry is the big key that the Alt-Right found to turning a lot of ill-nurtured white boys into real shitheads. Society softens people up with repeatedly pounding in "you need this to be successful!" and then the Alt-Right takes the dough and bakes it into Nazis.
They have a saying on /pol/: "Remember, it all starts by posting ironically"
Very glad I never used 4chan, aside from /d/ and /aco/ in 2016-2018 (egg Julie was wildin').
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by PurestEvil » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:34 pm

JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:31 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:29 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:25 pm Yeah, using 'ironic bigotry' as a gateway to actual bigotry is the big key that the Alt-Right found to turning a lot of ill-nurtured white boys into real shitheads. Society softens people up with repeatedly pounding in "you need this to be successful!" and then the Alt-Right takes the dough and bakes it into Nazis.
They have a saying on /pol/: "Remember, it all starts by posting ironically"
Very glad I never used 4chan, aside from /d/ and /aco/ in 2016-2018 (egg Julie was wildin').
I remember going to /pol/ everyday for about a month. Eventually, I snapped back to reality and realized that I was slowly becoming stupider for every thread I read through.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:48 pm

PurestEvil wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:34 pm
JulieYBM wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:31 pm
PurestEvil wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 3:29 pm

They have a saying on /pol/: "Remember, it all starts by posting ironically"
Very glad I never used 4chan, aside from /d/ and /aco/ in 2016-2018 (egg Julie was wildin').
I remember going to /pol/ everyday for about a month. Eventually, I snapped back to reality and realized that I was slowly becoming stupider for every thread I read through.
Sounds like Hell. Thank fuck I had queer friends who were lefty and disabled to keep me grounded. Very happy I was able to realize I still had some basic degree of empathy at the time that I could see how shit the 2016 election was.

Also, speaking of which, this meme is relevant:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by LoganForkHands73 » Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:32 pm

I've also seen friends or friends-of-friends slowly degenerate from ironic jokesters to unironic racists, unfortunately. Speaking from personal experience, I once fell down a typical rightwing YouTube recommendation rabbithole, but I was much more fortunate in clawing my way out than most. While I regret ever unwittingly giving money to mugs like Sargon, Armored Skeptic and god knows who else by watching their trash, I look back with some pride that I never truly bought into the bullshit being peddled and could see quite clearly where that path was headed, so I basically spent a few weeks conditioning my feed with more normal, non-propagandistic shit to weed out the Petersons/Shapiros/Harrises. It's slightly terrifying how so much as grazing a "lol at the dumb SJWs" type vid, even unintentionally, opens the floodgates so rapidly.

Then I found the glory that is Breadtube. Good luck falling down any kind of rabbithole on that side of the pond. It's almost like the algorithm is against left wing content and doesn't care about your feelings (like facts, apparently)...

One relatively minor but immediate disagreement I always had with the 'Skepticsphere' from day zero is the anti-artistic vomit they often spew. I'm VERY vocally in favour of freedom of artistic expression, so seeing Ben Shapiro chatting about how badly he wants to censor John Lennon's "dangerous socialist opinions" in Imagine or Paul Joseph Watson campaigning to get all arts programs defunded... Well, I kek.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Tue Oct 12, 2021 6:30 am

Still waiting for Polyphase /-:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Tue Oct 12, 2021 8:25 am

Yeah I think its only relatively recently people realize how destructive a site like 4chan is. So much is rightfully focused on Facebook being responsibility for how polarizing our politics are, but its scary how 4chan can lock in normal people and turn them into extremists. I used to go to /co/ a lot when I was in high school: It was where I first really got into comic books and I remember the community being really fun to hang around.

And then I noticed it changing to something meaner and crueler leading up to, and especially past, gamersgate...where so much of the posts were just endlessly bitching about feminists. And yeah, I could no longer tell what was "just joking" and what was being said sincerely.

One relatively minor but immediate disagreement I always had with the 'Skepticsphere' from day zero is the anti-artistic vomit they often spew. I'm VERY vocally in favour of freedom of artistic expression, so seeing Ben Shapiro chatting about how badly he wants to censor John Lennon's "dangerous socialist opinions" in Imagine or Paul Joseph Watson campaigning to get all arts programs defunded... Well, I kek.
Once you recognize what Shapiro actually is--a failed screenwriting hack who is funded by Republican money for the sole purpose of creating a right wing media empire--then its extremely easy to see how full of shit he and his ilk is. The "dark intellectuals" (which somehow includes the likes of king of all dude bros Joe Rogan) are a bunch whiny fuckboys who claim that they're all about "Free speech" and new ideas, but seem to exclusively have a problem with any idea that threatens the status quo. Hence why they'll bitch on and on about "post-modernism" or Marxism. Because apparently cancelling people will lead to an authoritarian rule, but somehow the dark intellectuals are pretty mum about actual right wing attempts at silencing voters through policy. hmmmmmmm... :think:

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by KingVegetto » Tue Oct 12, 2021 11:31 am

LoganForkHands73 wrote: Mon Oct 11, 2021 7:32 pm I've also seen friends or friends-of-friends slowly degenerate from ironic jokesters to unironic racists, unfortunately. Speaking from personal experience, I once fell down a typical rightwing YouTube recommendation rabbithole, but I was much more fortunate in clawing my way out than most. While I regret ever unwittingly giving money to mugs like Sargon, Armored Skeptic and god knows who else by watching their trash, I look back with some pride that I never truly bought into the bullshit being peddled and could see quite clearly where that path was headed, so I basically spent a few weeks conditioning my feed with more normal, non-propagandistic shit to weed out the Petersons/Shapiros/Harrises. It's slightly terrifying how so much as grazing a "lol at the dumb SJWs" type vid, even unintentionally, opens the floodgates so rapidly.

Then I found the glory that is Breadtube. Good luck falling down any kind of rabbithole on that side of the pond. It's almost like the algorithm is against left wing content and doesn't care about your feelings (like facts, apparently)...

One relatively minor but immediate disagreement I always had with the 'Skepticsphere' from day zero is the anti-artistic vomit they often spew. I'm VERY vocally in favour of freedom of artistic expression, so seeing Ben Shapiro chatting about how badly he wants to censor John Lennon's "dangerous socialist opinions" in Imagine or Paul Joseph Watson campaigning to get all arts programs defunded... Well, I kek.
Thankfully I never gave money to any of those hacks like The Quartering, Razorfist, Amazing Atheist, etc but there were times when I got frustrated with certain so-called progressives that I almost considered watching those vids, I did actually go and post in the notorious alt-right sub-reddit Kotaku-in-Action one day, though once I saw how much full-on nazism was on-display I noped the fuck out of there immediately afterwards. There was actually a scene in the Netflix animated series Big Mouth that perfectly illustrated how regular people fall down that rabbit hole, Andrew is upset about his bad luck with his life and posts a rant about females online and gets invited to a convention of MRAs, Andrew is just looking for an outlet for his hurt and danger over his own failed relationships, but once he shows up to the convention he's horrified to see the group of MRAs are full on nazis and not just going through a rough patch like himself and he realizes he wants nothing to do with a group like that and decides to become less bitter and toxic as a result.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by JulieYBM » Tue Oct 12, 2021 12:19 pm

It certainly goes to show how teaching empathy and building bonds with different types of people are necessary at a young age and on a societal level. The idea of "every person for themselves" splinters people off from reality and turns folks against one another while the powerful run off with all our resources.
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Polyphase Avatron » Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:50 pm

Shaddy wrote: Thu Oct 07, 2021 7:52 am
SuperSaiyaManZ94 wrote: Wed Oct 06, 2021 9:58 pm Ok, all the politics/economics/society/whatever made my head spin. I mean i get that discussions in threads go off topic to other discussions sometimes but seriously what does any of what was posted on the last few pages have anything to do with this topic specifically?

Honest question here because color me confused. :?:
Well, I had a big hand in the problem, so I might as well lay it out. The line of reasoning was basically that Dragon Ball contains misogyny -> a Women's group took issue with that -> Women's groups tend to operate on feminist theory -> polyphase says "feminism can go too far" and cites a bad example -> I say he's full of shit, prompting him to do more of that -> I am addicted to dumb internet discourse and keep responding.

Other people have contributed good and bad things, but I think polyphase and I are responsible for the core feedback loop keeping the socioeconomic arguments going. And yes, this is all supremely off-topic and has far outlived the usefulness of discussion potential of this thread.

But what can I say, for some inexplicable reason I just can't help but be a bit perturbed when I'm arbitrarily equated to straw-misandrist propaganda or genocidal anti-worker conservative dictatorships on completely fabricated and dishonest bases.
I wasn't originally talking about feminism. I was talking about the left-right paradigm in general, and I was objecting to the idea that anything leftist is automatically good, and that it's impossible to go too far left.
Look at my join date, and look at my post count dude. This is actually a very solidly tangible reason for why my post count on here is still sitting at less than 3000, despite my being here literally from almost the very-most beginning of this forum's existence more than 15 years ago (while people who are here for less than a year quickly rack up tens upon tens of thousands of posts in extremely short order). Its also why literally whole months (sometimes *years*) have fallen off the calendar without so much as a peep from me on here.
Although if one were to count by number of words rather than number of posts, you'd probably be pretty high up there...
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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Shaddy » Mon Oct 18, 2021 1:22 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:50 pm I wasn't originally talking about feminism. I was talking about the left-right paradigm in general, and I was objecting to the idea that anything leftist is automatically good, and that it's impossible to go too far left.
And as we've gone over, your examples for those claims were bad, and combined fundamentally-incompatible ideologies into an utterly irreconcilable strawman as a means of it being easier to dismiss.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by kemuri07 » Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:51 am

Devoid of any real world context...I guess that makes sense.

The problem isn't that "anything left is good" the problem is that one side is doing the bare minimum to go "hey maybe we don't let people die," while the other side has turned into a full blown death cult dedicated to bending to the will of a single human being. There is no party within the right wing, it's full on nhilism: Doing whatever it takes to remain in power as the world crumbles all around you. You've spent decades preaching to your followers that the government actually helping people is "anti-American," and now you can't run on any policy other than grievance politics and the possibility that Donald Trump might get re-elected. That's it. That literally all they have. By default, Democrats pretty much win and if that were enough to win elections maybe we'd be in a better spot right now.

That is not to say that I dont see flaws in left ideology, or there aren't scum in the democratic party--but they are running on policy. That is the bare minimum, but it's all we're left with because Republicans have decide they don't want to govern. Like at all.

Both Sides is lazy rhetoric developed by unimaginative people who don't even bother to figure out the historical context of what they're talking about. it serves solely to normalize Republican shittiness, while also giving centrists and libertarians --especially fucking libertarians--an out so they don't they have to side with democrats. Because: tHerE jUsT As baD

Using Communism as "the extreme-left" is nonsense. And as explained already, does not consider the actual issues. Soviet Russia and China were fascists--pure and simple. They were not communists, they didn't operate like socialist--they operated like capitalists.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:01 am

Polyphase Avatron wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 4:50 pm and that it's impossible to go too far left.
What does this even mean? At what point do you stop, do you think being center is what will push us forward? How’s that working out for us?

I want to ask a simple question, in this scenario, do you think there’s a difference between terrorism against people because of their skin color and terrorism against people because they are causing the abuse of children?

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by ZeroIsOurHero » Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:31 am

Checking back on this thread after a long while, and Jesus Christ it's even worse than it was before. Like, what the hell does Super being edited in Latin America have to do with the moral implications of socialism? Stuff like this is why we need an off-topic section.

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Aim » Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:43 am

ZeroIsOurHero wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:31 am Checking back on this thread after a long while, and Jesus Christ it's even worse than it was before. Like, what the hell does Super being edited in Latin America have to do with the moral implications of socialism? Stuff like this is why we need an off-topic section.
If we had an off topic section I think a ton of us would only be going there lol

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Re: Dragon Ball Super Gets Cancelled Overseas Over Sexual Harassment Claims

Post by Nagyzöld » Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:15 am

ZeroIsOurHero wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 1:31 am Checking back on this thread after a long while, and Jesus Christ it's even worse than it was before. Like, what the hell does Super being edited in Latin America have to do with the moral implications of socialism?
I asked the same thing a while ago and never got a relevant response, just that it's either still totally relevant to the topic or that we could see this a chance to "educate ourselves". I guess at this point we should just accept that things don't work around here to make sense, but to please the majority.

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